TD05H Turbo KAT

[twin240s]

Hey guys just thought i would post a little thread asking some probably stupid question that has been answered a million times. but here it goes. buddy of mine gave me a TD05H for FREE. was thinking about putting on my kat build. am i going to run into and problems with it being an oem mitzu turbo and all? if so what flanges would i need. so on and so forth. thank you guys very much for any positive input. have a blessed day.

[Dattebayo]

Wrong forum, chief.

How can you have 24 posts already and not know this?

[s13drifter88]

How is he in the wrong forum. this is the ka-t forum right??? anyways, u could but good luck getting a minifold, dump and downpipe. best bet and not tryna flame u or shoot u down but sell the td05 and pick up a t28. most all the ka-t manifolds accept a standard garrett 4 bolt rectangular foot print and u can get an ISIS or megan pretty cheap in a t2 (t25 and t28) foot print. by foot print i mean flange. i know u got it for free and all but it would prob be somewhat counter productive to keep and try to use. a t25 will boost a ka but itll be struggling and blowing hot air any higher than wastegate pressure so get a t28. it wont hurt ur feelings

[twin240s]

Awesome thanks man. I actually got 2 turbos so ill sell them and get a t28

[s13drifter88]

either t28 will work great, if ur on a tight budget then go for the s14 t28. its not ball bearing but its a t28. if u got the money to burn then pick up a new oem s15 t28. the ball bearing center cartridge will spool sooooooooo fast. i saw a ka-t with an s15 t28, 440's, n62 maf, and rom tune on a dyno turn 288whp 318wtq. i was impressed. that torque output has to cause whiplash, it looked like it should have when he left anyways

[s13drifter88]

the best ka-t's ive ever seen are using a t28 (or gt28rs, gt2860), with 440's, an n60 maf and a rom tune (Enthalpy or JWT). it makes for a great low boost torque monster. honestly tho id spring for some 550's and an n62 maf so if i wanted to crank the boost up i could

[WDRacing]

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... ode=TRB240

They have a new manifold that has better clearance around the MBC. Still cheap Chinese parts, but the only part that may crap out is the turbo. Which can be replaced with a quality used turbo for pretty cheap if and when it does die. Hard to argue with those prices.

The T2 is a restrictive turbo for the KA. So the T28 is only good if you have low hp goals. You're far better going with a T3 flanged turbo.

WD

[s13drifter88]

i really dont have a problem with the t2 flange for a 350ish whp goal. i wouldnt go t3 till u start trying to break 400. theres a guy here in town with a 300tt making 700 with a pair of 2871's on a conservative tune with a pair of mild BC cams. His name is Chris Shar, hes somewhere on here, Midnight Auto did the build

[WDRacing]

The T2 flange is a restriction at over 8 psi...that's just fact. What someone does running twins on another motor, which btw only has 1.5 liters per turbo not 2.4, has no bearing on the KA. Also, the T28's that will support 350whp on the KA cost around 1200 bucks and you'll want to run an external wastegate so you don't suffer from exhaust gas reversion and boost spikes.

The only benefit the T2 turbo setups have are price. A properly sized T3/TO4E will spool just as fast a T28 that will efficiently support 350whp. It will make more power with less boost as well.

So you CAN use the T2 flanged turbo's, but you're starting with a handicap when you don't have to.

WD

[s13drifter88]

ive never seen anythig t3 spool as fast as a t28. not trying to argue or discredit u but a 2860 or a 2871 on a ka is capable of being a force to reckon with. and even tho its 1.5 liters per cylinder bank it still has to 350hp worth of air and be able to exhale 350hp worth of air. i mean 350hp per 1.5 liters is awesome. i think t3 is too much hassle unless ur going for BIGG numbers coz for the price of v-band or outlet and down pipe ect ect vs t2 (2860/2871) its simple, there dozens of outlets, downpipes, intercooler kit, optional hot-pipe available ect. its to easy to do a 350whp t2 vs 350whp t3 and u still save on space too alongwith cost. and idk anyone who has boost spike or creep problems with a 2860 or 2871 with an hks actuator. theyre so cheap and offered as an option with 90% of todays internally gated turbos that its sensless not to get it. not saying that creep or spikes doesnt happen but im extremely sure its less likely to happen with a quality (interna) wastegate

[WDRacing]

The 2860-71 have nice compressors, I'm not saying they won't provide the air. I'm saying the t2 is a restriction, that's where the 1.5 liters per turbo comes from. Airflow isn't just about the compressor, it's about the exhaust housing being able to move the additional airflow on boost.

Take a 2871 with a .80 something AR hotside and a t3/TO4E with a .48 and tell me you've never seen anything spool as fast.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion though and the T28 IS easy with all of the ebay options.

Where are all of these 350whp KAT's using a T28? I know there are lots of SR's using that combo, but the KA is 25% bigger.

As far as a boost spike goes, I was referring to the turbo not being able to vent enough exhaust pressure, not the actuator failing to open. It's all about the size of the wastegate hole, which is why I recommended the external, since they move more exhaust energy.

Again though, the 2860-70 series ain't cheap. For a tad more then one of those turbo's I can get an entire JGS T3/TO4E kit. And make gobs more power

[s13drifter88]

all the kat ive seen with just a flat out s15 t28 are 290-300whp machines. i see them making 340-350 with 2860 and 350+ with 2871. but thats the great part of different hot sides. dont get a 2871 in a .64 for a ka, get the .86. then itll exhale and u still keep the simplicity of the system and keep size down

[WDRacing]

I've been a T3 or bigger guy for a long time, so I'm biased. I fab most of my own parts so the EBay thing has never really appealed to me. All that's left is price vs power output. For the price of a 2871 I can buy a sweet T3/TO4 and a complete nitrous system. Hard to argue from my perspective.

[s13drifter88]

im not discrediting or necesarilly disagreeing with u, but for a basic ka-t i think a t3 is a little bit much. an s15 t28 with 440's, n62 maf, enthalpy or jwt rom tune and an oem rebuild will make a stout, responsive car. get 550's and have it flashed for them the 1st time and then if he wakes one day a year later and wants another 80whp he can order a 2871. ebay parts are not so bad if u buy the right things. invest in a good intercooler core and then get pipes off ebay tho iveheard the CX cores arent to bad but idk. enjuku and frsport both have dozens of ka-t parts that suit the t2 setup as far as dumps, downpipes ect. its almost TOO easy and t28/550/N62 rom tunes are almost readily available for the ka. now if i wanted 400+whp i wouldnt even consider a t2 and by that i mean like a 2871 or 3071. it would definitly be a larger t3 like a 3076 or something of that sort but at that point an oe rebuild, while it could suffice, would not be rcommended but more like a set of eagle or crower rods and maybe even a set of pistons too. plus while a t3 is a little cheaper add the cost of a good tial, hks or turbosmart wastegate and then compare the cost. plus another advantage of a t2 turbo is its watercooled so bearing life can potentially last longer if sufficient cool down time isnt allowed (ie no turbo timer and u got run inside and sh*t really bad lol).

[Spring Break '92]

I bought my car already turbo with a GT28R (S15 BB with no internal gate) and Ebay everything. The intercooler is decent, but the piping sucks bad. Its really thin walled and has no bead rolls. The bottom mount manifold has held up very well. The car has been setup this way since 2005. I had the motor rebuilt with Wiseco 9:1 pistons, ARP hardware throughout, and Clevite bearings. Also a Cometic HG, in hind sight I would have gotten a Fel Pro, but not knowing people had problems with Cometic I figured it was the best option. Even though I have not personally had any problems. I stepped up from 370's and stock MAF on a ROM tune, to 555's and a Z32 and installed a new set of chips in the daughterboard. I love the powerband from my GT28R. Being that I am not starting from scratch, I kept my turbo setup the way I bought the car. If I were to do it from scratch I would go with a JGS kit minus the turbo and get a Holset. It would be easier for me to go with a 2871 with a .86 turbine A/R at this point if my turbo gave out for some reason. It would minimize downtime, but cost would be a little more. I have also seen some people run 20G turbo's that look like they would work with my setup also.

[s13drifter88]

t2 is just wayyyyyyyyyy to simple and works so well to down and bash for anyone looking for less than a 400whp build. thats just me tho, others may feel differently but look at what other t28/2860/2871 ka's are out there and then look at what they make

[s13drifter88]

any word on ur setup??????????

[Spring Break '92]

Now I could be justifying the fact that I bought my car with the GT28R and am too lazy/poor to change my setup, but it kicks a** on a KA. That is a fact I can vouch for.

[kentuckyslider]

300whp should be the max for a T2 flanged INTERNALLY GATED KA-T. That is about the limits of a GT28R. If you go with a GT2871R .86ar or a GT3071 on a T2 flange you WILL have boost spike and blow gaskets out with an internal gate. I ran 11's in the 1/4 with my 2871 on my SR and it had some boost spike. If you talk to anyone who has made 350+ whp on a T2 KA-T they have gone external WG or they have serious boost spike.

This is ATP's solution to the problem...

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... y_Code=GTH

but as WD has been saying. If you have a $1200 2871R or 3071R, $300 turbine housing, and a $300 exteranl WG you could have gone T3 a long time ago. The 2871 was an excellent turbo on my SR, and the T2's are great for under 300whp on the KA-T, but if you are trying to make T3 power on a 2.4L, go T3.

[s13drifter88]

i think limiting t2 to only 300hp is undercutting the the 2871 a little bit. while theyve both had the hks wastegate actuators and they may have prevented the problem but 2 friends of mine are currently making over 300 with 2871's, one on an sr (344whp) and the other on a ka-t (338whp) and as many times as ive been in and driven both of the cars ive never seen them spike... not on the gauge or recorded on the boost controller. Im not saying it doesnt happen coz people suffer from spike problems all the time but in these 2 cases i havnt seen it. i just like the t2 for the simplicity of the system for a mild street built 300ish car, however if i was trying to break 400whp there wouldnt be a 2871 in sight of me but more like a 3076 or something of that sort. whatever route u choose to go good luck and i hope all goes well for u. just pay attention to what everyone here has said and choose what will best suit u. all here from these guys is good information

[WDRacing]

Bang buck, the 2870 or bigger series loses to the T3. The T3 will make more power with less boost, that means it's more efficient. A properly sized T3 won't lag much more then the big T28's and they are half the cost. To me that's a pretty big reason to go T3.

If I had a source or found a good deal on a 287X turbo I'd use one, don't get me wrong there. However, I just can't fess up that much $$ for something that doesn't have a ceiling for future mods.

[motoman399]

i dont see how the t2 is simpler, its the same idea as a t3. your taking off the same bolts.. and for most t2's you have to (or should) run water lines to them. my friend just put a s14 t28 on his car and i am going to see how it feels. i wasnt very impressed from a t25 on an sr at 14psi..

but i was impressed from my t4 on my ka-t at only 7psi.... just saying.. lol

[s13drifter88]

ive never been impressed from a t25 on anything. the reason i say simpler is theres dozens of intercooler setups, dumps, downpipes, manifolds all to accomodate a t2 footprint. im not saying t2 is the greatest thing out there, im just saying i like it for certain things and i find it simpler in many of my experiences and can easily yield a 350hp engine like in the case of a 2871 86ar. go on enjuku and look. anything and everything to accomodate a t2 will be right there in front of you on one page. now ive never looked into any of the jgs kits or anything but from what ive seen the t2 setups seem pretty simple to me.

[WDRacing]

There are many options for both these days. The cheapest and most popular being the T28 stuff because China has been making that stuff for a few years now. China is just now starting to perfect the top mount manifold for a T3 sized turbo if you want to invest in a "brand name" unit instead of using there non-balanced turbo that's in the kit.

JGS makes a bullet proof manifold. It's a log design but has been dyno proven to flow over 400whp on several cars now. Most true equal length mani's are way out of my price range, so the JGS is great for me and others with a smaller budget.

As far as FMIC kits etc, there are just as many KAT items as SR items now. So that entire section becomes void. You really just have to choose between the two. I will always side with the part that has room to grow. Yes the 2870+ turbo's will make 350, on a good tune btw, but that's maxing it out. I don't like to run parts at their max, it's bad for reliability. That and the T3 hybrid, simply put, makes more power at less boost across the entire rpm range. With the exception being the initial rpm band up to about 2500 rpm. Well I don't know about you, but I don't spend alot of time grabbing gears at 2500 f*** rpm...lol. My .63 AR T3/TO4E was making 8 psi by 3100 rpm. You can knock that back 500rpm at a minimum by going down to the .48 and still have a turbo that supports 400whp. Swap out the exhaust housing for 100 bucks and you now have a turbo that can support 500 hp to the wheels. These turbo's can be had for $550 brand new from Garret and other proven names.

Lets say my budget is 1500 bucks, buying a 287x turbo is going to eat up quite a bit and support less power. Or I can buy a T3/TO4E and have enough left over for a set a rear wheels and drag radials to go with...or a nitrous system bought and professionally installed...or a ROM tune and 3 retunes...or a kegerator AND a keg to go with AND a tap run out to my garage!!!!

This argument has been around as long as the SR vs KAT debate itself. Lots of personal opinion involved. I love these types of threads though, great for guys that are starting out.

WD

[kentuckyslider]

WD, If you find that manifold and or downpipe avalible separate from the kit please let us all know. I really like the looks of that mani. CX racing shows it available individually for the SR but not the KA-T. Go figure.

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... ode=MFNISN

[motoman399]

China is just now starting to perfect the top mount manifold for a T3 sized turbo if you want to invest in a "brand name" unit instead of using there non-balanced turbo that's in the kit.

WD

how sure are you that they are not balanced? i have personally taken apart a few of these t3 turbo's from "ebay" and they have all had grinding marks for balancing. although i have not had them sent to a turbo balancing shop to see if its actually balanced..

i believe the weak point in the ebay turbo's is the materials they use for the bearings. i could be completely wrong..

[WDRacing]

I haven't seen the "marks", but if you have then...It probably depends on the source. I was looking into importing direct from China a few years ago,the $$ and product quality range from materials laced with pure lead and death to precision balanced art work depending on the supplier.

If the turbo's are indeed balanced they should do quite well. The materials to do the cartridge aren't that much more $$, so hopefully some of the more reputable Chinese suppliers are using the correct stuff AND balancing them.

WD