Taxpayer Ripoffs.

[ishkabibble]

I think local civic groups, churches and advocacy groups can manage that money FAR better than the retards on the Hill.

No thanks. Under that system, lots of people would fall through the cracks, and oftentimes, the aid would come with stipulations. IMO, the govt should provide a baseline safety net for everyone.

[AZhitman]

No thanks. Under that system, lots of people would fall through the cracks, and oftentimes, the aid would come with stipulations. IMO, the govt should provide a baseline safety net for everyone.

Yeah. God forbid anyone should actually have to DO anything for some aid.

There's the fundamental difference between a libby and a conservative - I don't believe the Government is here to provide a "safety net", and I resent my tax donllars being used for that purpose. Socialism fails.

[audtatious]

Yep

Instead we have to keep paying generations upon generations of people to do the same thing. Sit on their butt and live off the Gov. Make them actually do something for the money we give them? A portion of that population would call that <gasp> slavery. So, we keep doing the same thing and keep paying them to teach their kids how to do the same thing.

Slip through the cracks? What about common sense and self sufficiency? Oh yeah, takes too much effort. Gov't cheese, handouts, welfare, medicaid and busted-azz 1970 cars with 30" wheels bought with their IRS-Welfare refunds is all they need.

Brian is right, the US is screwed and in a downward death spiral. Time to start hoarding ammo.

[skylndrftr]

Yeah. God forbid anyone should actually have to DO anything for some aid.

There's the fundamental difference between a libby and a conservative - I don't believe the Government is here to provide a "safety net", and I resent my tax donllars being used for that purpose. Socialism fails.

I utterly disagree with your statement which really goes back to the old Reagan atrocicious statement about the scariest words in the "nglish language.

Without the governments help, your doctor would have no licensing requirements

withtout the government you wouldn't have roads

withtout the government you wouldn't have flood warnings and hurrican warnings and thunderstorm warnings

Without government help we would likely all have died from lead paint by now...

[ishkabibble]

Yeah. God forbid anyone should actually have to DO anything for some aid.

There's the fundamental difference between a libby and a conservative - I don't believe the Government is here to provide a "safety net", and I resent my tax donllars being used for that purpose. Socialism fails.

I have no issue with my tax dollars helping those in need. That goes for continuous help for those who are incapacitated, and temporary help for able-bodied or able-minded people. It just need to be done in an intelligent way.

Go ahead and apply your hatred toward the current system to all possible government-run systems, though.

[ishkabibble]

Instead we have to keep paying generations upon generations of people to do the same thing. Sit on their butt and live off the Gov. Make them actually do something for the money we give them? A portion of that population would call that <gasp> slavery. So, we keep doing the same thing and keep paying them to teach their kids how to do the same thing.

Slip through the cracks? What about common sense and self sufficiency? Oh yeah, takes too much effort. Gov't cheese, handouts, welfare, medicaid and busted-azz 1970 cars with 30" wheels bought with their IRS-Welfare refunds is all they need.

I said nothing about continuing on with the current system.

[AZhitman]

I utterly disagree with your statement which really goes back to the old Reagan atrocicious statement about the scariest words in the "nglish language.

Without the governments help, your doctor would have no licensing requirements

withtout the government you wouldn't have roads

withtout the government you wouldn't have flood warnings and hurrican warnings and thunderstorm warnings

Without government help we would likely all have died from lead paint by now...

Those aren't government assistance programs, nor are they the types of programs ish is referring to as a "safety net".

I didn't say abolition of government. I said government was not established to provide a "safety net".

[AZhitman]

helping those in need. those who are incapacitatedable-bodied or able-minded peopleIt just need to be done in an intelligent way.

...as defined by WHO?

Truck out the "hate" card if you must. Just because I point out the fallacies of the hand-wringers' agenda doesn't make me full of "hate".

Trust me, I do more for those "in need" than most who criticize me, which simply means tht when all is said and done, they're hypocrites. And I'm OK with that. But I won't have my point labeled as "hate".

[ishkabibble]

Defined by whether or not they can work. Few people are completely incapacitated.

Ok, not hate. "resent". Sorry for using the wrong word.

[AZhitman]

Defined by whether or not they can work. Few people are completely incapacitated.

Ok, not hate. "resent". Sorry for using the wrong word.

Agreed. But who defines whether thay can "work"?

In my past life working with the mentally ill and severely disabled, I placed people in meaningful employment who were previously thought to be nothing but a burden. No arms? No legs? Deaf? Mute? Incontinent? PERFECT. You can work the phones at a state agency with the proper equipment and accomodations, and you'll have great benefits and retirement. SCREW welfare and the government handouts, STAND UP and be a contributing member of society.

A head in a jar can find gainful employment with the right support - I just DO NOT believe the government (at least the Feds) should be responsible for it.

If you're so incapacitated you can't work, you're already in an institution with all your needs provided - So why do you need living expenses coming from MY taxes?

See how it gets weird when you stretch it to the extreme, Ish? It really makes you wonder who TRULY NEEDS a hand.

BTW - No apology necessary. You're speaking your mind, brother.

"Resent" is perfect (which is why I used it in the post you replied to)...

[audtatious]

I said nothing about continuing on with the current system.

You nor Congress have come up with a viable solution. Until then it's rainbow and unicorns.

[ishkabibble]

Niether have you guys.

[WDRacing]

Unfortunately welfare services whether it be for the mentally ill or for displaced children are badly mismanaged. It isn't always a matter of wasting tax payer dollars, although a good deal of money is spent keeping fat lazy women sitting on their couch...I say that ONLY because my ex-sister-in-law is one of them and has been for over a decade.

Money needs to be allotted for assistance IMO, but not as a general blanket for people in need. Irresponsible decisions made by the individual shouldn't be my problem. I'm all for helping people that actually need it but given the choice between paying less taxes and putting that money towards my Sons college fund or for paying some lazy POS who simply doesn't want to work...well the lazy person can get a friggin job.

WD

[AZhitman]

Niether have you guys.

I have a plan. Hell, I think you and I could put something together better than what we have.

[Encryptshun]

But when she is inplanted with a fertilized embryo for the sole purpose of prifiting from gestating that child, then perhaps the taxpayers shouldn't be footing the medical bill. -After all, medical expenses would be a writeoff for her "for profit business." It's really pretty obviously a tax payer ripoff.

Wouldn't Obama's healthcare plan just open this up for EVERY citizen (military or not)? I mean we're talking about opening up the potential for welfare baby factories on a Dow Jones scale...

[ishkabibble]

Wouldn't Obama's healthcare plan just open this up for EVERY citizen (military or not)?

No. I have no idea where you are getting that Obama's plan opens the military heathcare system to all.

McCain's pro-abstinence, anti-contraceptive plan actually would create more welfare babies.

[ishkabibble]

I have a plan.

He said "viable solution". I think your plan is only one portion of a viable solution.

Hell, I think you and I could put something together better than what we have.

I'm sure. You guys seem to think I'm in favor of the current system, which I am not.

[smockers83]

^ Which is why both sides of the political spectrum need to end their battle with each other and collaborate for a change.

[Encryptshun]

No. I have no idea where you are getting that Obama's plan opens the military heathcare system to all.

McCain's pro-abstinence, anti-contraceptive plan actually would create more welfare babies.

Where I'm getting is that Obama wants to socialize healthcare. So, with tax payers subsidizing healthcare for those too poor to afford it on their own (presumably that total being beyond the current medicare/medicaid/welfare/WIC subscrption base), that means that, for at least a bigger segment of the population, these medical benefits (currently offered to military families) would become available and tax-paid. Ergo, my point.

To your point about McCain's plan, I agree with you. I personally believe in forced (reversible) sterilization, but that's another story.

[ishkabibble]

Those medical benefits are for the military only. The rest of government, including Congress, pays health care premiums and is on a HMO/PPO plan. They don't get free breast implants and get paid to be surrogate mothers.

I don't think he wants to socialize health care so much as mandate it (with exceptions). Then again, I stopped looking into his stances on most topics a couple of months ago.

[Armelius]

Military, manned space program, Israel and Egypt, and any global warming schemes to reduce emissions from automobiles while coal fired energy plants have yet to install scrubbers.