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Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

Post

Hey everyone,

Later this week I'll be buying the parts to fully rebuild my motor and do some internal upgrades. Two things I'm gonna need suggestions on. First, do I have everything I *need* to make this engine as reliable as possible so that I won't be pulling it again any time soon. Second, if there is anyone local to Nashville, TN that has a shop/garage or knows of one where I can remove said engine.

List of links to parts:
Tomei Poncams:
http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/to ... 18det.html

750cc Deatschwerks Injectors:
http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/de ... 18det.html

Isis radiator and fan kit:
http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/is ... 89-94.html

Supertech 83.5mm Forged pistons:
http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/su ... 8-5-1.html

ARP Head studs: (supposedly the original engine installer put these in, but I have a few doubts)
http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/ar ... 18det.html

Cometic Head gasket:
http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/co ... 18det.html

Stuff I've already collected:
HKS Super SSQV BOV
Wiring Specialties Harness
A'PEXi AVC-R (with harness wired into main harness by WS)
KA Throttle body
Complete spare upper and lower plenums with all Secondary Butterfly components matched to KA TB
New oil pump
New water pump (DE style, I am not using mechanical fan)
Tein superstreet coilovers (already on car)
(edit) And Z32 MAF

Stuff I still need to source/research:
Turbo upgrade (most likely S15 style)
LSD (Again, from S15 is what I've almost decided on)
A/C compressor (I live in TN, August sucks!)

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to get everything in the first post I could think of.

P.S. Float, I'll definitely be talking to you soon about renting that torque-plate.


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Izento
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:20 pm
Car: RPS13

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Get all your internals done first if you don't want to pull it again. Rod bearings, main bearings, thrust bearings, pistons, rings, hone, head gasket, oil pump, ARP rod bolts. That's really about all I can think of. You can do everything else with the engine in. Poncams, turbo related stuff, etc. Hold off on all of that if your objective is to get all the internals done.

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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Objective is rebuild (car is smoking from what seems to be a bad oil ring), and upgrade. I've already got most of the internals purchased.

Not sure about thrust bearings, tho. Got a part number?

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Cams
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:42 am
Car: 1993 Nissan 200sx CA18(DET) RS13
2002 Mitsubishi Airtrek JDM 4G63T (wife)
2013 Scion FR-S
2016 Infiniti QX50
Location: Panama, Central America

Post

You are facing the same rebuild situation dilemma I faced 2 years ago. You can check my Xmas thread, as it has things that may or may not apply to your build. Make sure the shop you choose to help with the work knows what they are doing.

engine-rebuild-xmas-list-pls-comment-t558604.html

Your list seems solid, except for the Supertech pistons. I have no experience with them or anything, and maybe others can vouch for them, but most builds I've seen around here are with Wiseco (if your shop can deal with the oil squirter notch bit) or CP pistons (which are more expensive but don't have such problems)

Also, you should consider a full gaskets/seals kit, either Nissan or Cometic (which would include the headgasket you are buying)

In my build I failed purchasing some specific ARP bolts (for the crankshaft mains) and gasket (4 port head), so I ended up wasting some money there; so triple check all the part numbers before buying, as a wrong part would cause unwanted delays. Look on ebay for the ARP rod bearing studs and some flywheel ARP studs, as these are recommended.

I bought an S15 turbo and I'm pretty happy with the results, but I'm well aware that I'd be very lucky if I'm able to achieve 300whp with it. Choose your new turbo according to the estimated power figure you would like to achieve; and something I learned a bit late, you should already be looking into the different fuel management systems available, and see which one fits better for your project, as it is very important for most the things you have listed, and you didn't mention any.

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mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

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The ARP rod bolt part number is in the FAQ. Iirc, I found them to actually be L20 bolts. Get those, have your rods resized, and get a set of Clevite bearings (part number also in the FAQ) and the bottom end should be solid.

I've known a few people to use Supertech pistons without issue. I can never remember if it's more or less silicone they use, but they don't expand as much as CP pistons so the clearance can be tighter and they'll be quieter on cold starts.

I'm not a fan of the Cometic head gasket. It's too much trouble, imo, to get them to seal properly. You practically have to polish the head and block. A standard Felpro will be just fine. Boost doesn't blow head gaskets, detonation does.

Also, be sure you cut some of the thread from the end that goes into the block off one of the head studs. Use this stud for the hole above the water pump. If you don't, the but will bottom out and won't clamp the head properly. You can stack an extra washer instead, but that effectively makes the stud longer and changes the clamping load at the same torque. Iirc, I think I cut 3/8" off the bottom of mine and the top of the stud sat perfectly level with all the rest.

boost_boy
Posts: 7162
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:28 am
Car: B12 sentra w/built CA18DET, B12 sentra w/fully-built CA18DET, S13 coupe w/ CA18DET, S13 hatch w/CA18DET, 2002 maxima SE
Location: Miami, FL.
Contact:

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Your list looks full, but I have to ask, what do you plan on driving those 750cc injectors with? I believe your engine was probably smoking from a failing turbo seal. Please have someone competent build your motor or all that money spent will be in vain. What are your goals?

Buddyworm
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:55 pm

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Assuming you already have a strong running engine, I don't see the point in doing internals for a S15 T28. The stock internals will take whatever that turbo can throw at it all day long.

Now if we were talking GT30 frame turbo that's a different story!

**Edit: Ignore me! Sounds like you're in need of a rebuild :P

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sjbsuperman1425
Posts: 2889
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:24 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240sx
CA18DET
Location: Bay City, MI
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I'd go with an OEM or Felpro head gasket.

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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@Boost_boy - The car already has a walbro 255 LPH pump, as well as a Nismo FPR installed. Forgot it... I honestly think the oil ring has gone on a piston, it smokes as soon as it starts getting warm and smokes worse the warmer it gets. Also, about 6 months before I stopped driving it due to the smoke, my little brother rebuilt the turbo at his shop (works at a big truck maintenance shop, they work on turbos all the time.) May be wrong, but that's one reason I'm eye-balling a BRAND NEW T-28. I don't want/need tons of power, just enough to have fun on a random track day.

The competent shop is currently my single biggest issue. Most of the local shops won't touch a Nissan engine with a 10m cattle prod. :( I live in Nashville, TN so if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.

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Izento
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:20 pm
Car: RPS13

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You also never said if this was a daily car or a track car. The reason I ask is because if it's a daily car, I would definitely go Supertech pistons, as they need less time to expand. If it's a dedicated track car, I would go CP pistons and get a turbo that's larger than the S15 T28, as the cap is quite low on those turbos (but they spool rather quick).

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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Sorry, Izento, I thought I did. Whoops. I want a DD that's fun on track day. Nothing crazy, but occasionally able to make a Fox-body feel like s***. :D

boost_boy
Posts: 7162
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:28 am
Car: B12 sentra w/built CA18DET, B12 sentra w/fully-built CA18DET, S13 coupe w/ CA18DET, S13 hatch w/CA18DET, 2002 maxima SE
Location: Miami, FL.
Contact:

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I think you've spent a lot of money in areas that could've waited (pistons, cams, 750cc injectors, ARP head studs and cometic h/g). The most important thing that should've been done before you spent a penny was to evaluate the present condition of your engine. And unless someone opens it up, you will only be guessing as to what it's condition may be. I just built and sent a complete engine set for a member in TN., so it was not impossible to get competent work done with peace of mind for a fraction of the normal cost. If you can't find a shop to help you with this, let me know via messenger to see if I can render assistance. You will need more than a walbro pump and an adjustable f/p regulator to control those injectors and that's usually an area where most members get lost in (Engine management How-to's).

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mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

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Idk who to go to around Nashville, but if you don't mind a couple hour drive then I go to Roland Machine in Hazelgreen, AL all the time. They do great work and are fast and very reasonably priced. The owner worked at Huntsville Engine for quite a while. They did great on my last CA, but they only did the machine work on it. I assembled it and checked everything and made sure to tell them exactly how I wanted everything done.

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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Quick update:

Decided to buy a built long block from boost_boy, saved me a lot of headache to have someone who knows the engine build it. Got it in late last week, but due to weather and work schedule won't be able to do anything with it until Friday. So, as long as the weather holds here in TN, I'll have a REALLY nice engine in my car by the end of the weekend.
Also going in will be a Mishimoto radiator with an Isis dual fan and shroud setup, Spec stage 2 clutch, remanned rack and pinion, rebuilt power steering pump, new oil in the transmission.
Waiting until after new motor is broken in on the new GT2560 turbo and 800cc Deatschwerk injectors and Z32 MAF. Rather not risk a bad break in trying to setup on a new tune.

Link to PB for pics of my engine getting built:
http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/gargo ... t=3&page=1

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float_6969
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Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
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Glad to hear it's coming along! I have GT2560 on my Mazdaspeed Protege (it's what comes on it stock) and it's a decent little turbo. The MSP is a 2L, so it makes boost almost off idle and at 15psi it makes plenty of power to put a smile on your face. I think you'll be happy with it. Oh! And I didn't see an exhaust manifold. Stick with the stock exhaust manifold.

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Cams
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:42 am
Car: 1993 Nissan 200sx CA18(DET) RS13
2002 Mitsubishi Airtrek JDM 4G63T (wife)
2013 Scion FR-S
2016 Infiniti QX50
Location: Panama, Central America

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Yeah, congrats on the engine purchase from a reputable source. Stick to the stock injectors and MAF until you have finished breaking it in and the proper engine management is installed. :dblthumb:

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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@Float - yeah, I'm swapping the exhaust manifold out and I had gotten a spare intake so that's going on the new motor as well. What size oil feed restrictor will I need for that turbo, do you know?

@Cams - Nistune is already in that car, I'm just going to load the base map until after the break in is done.

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Izento
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:20 pm
Car: RPS13

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Personally, I would rather put the new turbo on while the engine is outside the car, as it is a s*** ton easier. You could just not boost when you are breaking in the engine. Also, as a side note, replace the intake manifold rubber hoses!

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float_6969
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So you're keeping the stock exhaust manifold, or you're getting a tubular? I'm confused by what you mean when you say you're swapping it out. I don't know the oil restrictor size, but to be honest, I don't think I used one when I put the S15 SR T28 turbo on and I didn't have any issues. And yea, you DEFINITELY want to put the new turbo on while the engine is out. It's a MILLION times easier.

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Cams
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:42 am
Car: 1993 Nissan 200sx CA18(DET) RS13
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2013 Scion FR-S
2016 Infiniti QX50
Location: Panama, Central America

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float_6969 wrote: And yea, you DEFINITELY want to put the new turbo on while the engine is out. It's a MILLION times easier.
amen!

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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@Float - I mean to keep the stock manifold, I just meant I've got to swap it to the new engine. And if I go ahead and install the new turbo, that means I get to figure out my Apexi boost controller sooner. What boost pressure do you guys think would be good with a stock map? 10psi?

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float_6969
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It's been a long time since I've run the stock ECM, but I'm pretty sure you're safe at 10 psi.

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sjbsuperman1425
Posts: 2889
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:24 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240sx
CA18DET
Location: Bay City, MI
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the stock fuel maps are setup quite rich. I personally was seeing 10:1 AFR last year at some points. I have had boost at about 12psi with walbro pump, stock injectors, and a nismo fpr and it still was fine. This is using a T28 BB turbo as well.

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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So... 10-12 psi on stock map, with Walbro and Nismo fuel regulator. Cool.

Update- Engine is out. I could kill the kid that did the original swap, and slap myself for trusting that he knew what he was doing. It's a wonder that it lasted as long as it did. Lots of short cuts taken with the original install.

Question for the group... Flywheel bolt aren't coming out with even a high torque impact, two are just rounding off. Any reason not to go ahead and upgrade to a chromoly flywheel and not fight those other two bolts?

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float_6969
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I've run a lightweight flywheel for years on the CA. No issues, does make starting from a stop on our torque-less motors require a bit more revs, but that's about it.

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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Ugh. All the fiddly stuff!!! Little things which I need to try to get right keep cropping up and biting me. I swear, I'm gonna go find the kid that did the swap originally and beat him into a puddle. lol

Update-ish: TN Weather isn't cooperating at all. Intake and exhaust installed, fiddly issue with turbo mounting. Found out what caused my engine to die, about 1/2" of lateral play in the turbo shaft, I'm guessing it ate some metal. Not sure what cause it to die like that. Taking my time and installing everything as carefully as possible.

Old engine had studs on the water pump, any reason not to just use standard bolts instead?

@Float - on this 2560 turbo, the compressor housing just keeps the exhaust flange from mating properly. There should be enough play in the wastegate actuator to clock it around, right?

Also, does anyone have a CA A/C bracket that I could buy? There's only one on eBay and it's $100 in shipping for a $30 part.

For everything I find an answer to, and try to anticipate, 2 other things crop up. >.< Glad I didn't rent a bay to do the swap...

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float_6969
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That's weird about the studs on the water pump. Bolts should be fine.

Yea, if you only need to move it and inch or so, that should be fine. Just make sure that the rod for the wastegate actutor doesn't rub where it goes into the cannister. Sometimes you can put the wastegate canister bracket in a vice and bend it a little to get it to line but up like you need it, but if you only need to clock the compressor housing a little bit, then you shouldn't need to do all of that. I never had the 2560 on a CA, so I don't know exactly what you're needing to do, but I'm familiar with the turbo itself, and there's some wiggle room with the alignment of the actuator.

LOL, welcome to the world of engine modification. Nothing ever goes as planned.

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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Everything went on after driving in to work (50min drive from where I'm doing the build) to get a decently sized set of snap-ring pliers. Didn't know there were two different sizes to the oil drain flange between the T-25 and a T-28. Ordered a T-28 oil drain. Also bit the bullet and ordered some oil safe hose in 3/4", 5/8" and new heater lines. Found some heater fittings from a VW that are the proper size to tie all my heater lines together and still have heat, turbo cooling and proper routing without using the steel pipes and throttle body passages. I'll get pics of my heater line setup before I actually stick the motor in later this week.
Hopeful that I've found all the rattlers in the grass.

Did find out that the body and engine harness weren't split when the guy did the original swap, so I'm going to spend a few hours un wrapping wires to be able to use my new WS harness and still have things like...head lights and wipers. >.<

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float_6969
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Wait what? What you do you mean they weren't split?

Red_CA_Silvia
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:16 am
Car: CA18DE(T) S13 Coupe

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Looks like some of the body harness of the loom that is in the car is wrapped up with the engine harness. The wiper motor and passenger turn signal and a few other things are taped up with the main section of the loom right before it goes into the firewall. I'm going to have to unwrap the existing loom to find out what all is in there. Whether there are electrical cross-overs inside or not, the loom is physically all taped together and looks not much like my WS harness.


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