Take the plunge?

[snikad]

Well guys, thought id say hello I'm new. Currently I'm driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee but am tired of it, and going back to school in the fall. Ideally I would prefer an Xterra, but the dealers in my area don't want to make a deal, so I was thinking get a Versa while in school, cheaper all around. I like the Versa in that it seems simple like the small cars my family had when i was very young, nothing on them to break. I need a lil kick in the pants to convince myself to get one. I do have one major problem.

CVT or MT? basically I want you guys to sway me towards the MT. I have seen a lot of fuel economy.gov vehicals claim cvts get better millage then MT's but I have never seen this to be true in real life. Are the cvts that much better? Would a MT be more reliable? Can u get the remote start with the MT?

Thanks,Matt

ps I know i'm gonna get flamed for not using a search, but i did just could not find anything about cvt vs mt. also auto is outa the question for me

[tyler_ofspain]

Well guys, thought id say hello I'm new. Currently I'm driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee but am tired of it, and going back to school in the fall. Ideally I would prefer an Xterra, but the dealers in my area don't want to make a deal, so I was thinking get a Versa while in school, cheaper all around. I like the Versa in that it seems simple like the small cars my family had when i was very young, nothing on them to break. I need a lil kick in the pants to convince myself to get one. I do have one major problem.

CVT or MT? basically I want you guys to sway me towards the MT. I have seen a lot of fuel economy.gov vehicals claim cvts get better millage then MT's but I have never seen this to be true in real life. Are the cvts that much better? Would a MT be more reliable? Can u get the remote start with the MT?

Thanks,Matt

ps I know i'm gonna get flamed for not using a search, but i did just could not find anything about cvt vs mt. also auto is outa the question for me

Welcome! I have a versa with the MT and i would definitely recommend it. i'm not sure if the cvt gets better gas milage but mine does pretty good... and yes you can get remote starts installed on the MT. I don't drive very conservatively and i'm still getting 35mpg

[Rockhound]

My wife and I have owned our Versa (CVT) for about 21 months, put just over 20k miles on it in that time, and have had a great, trouble free experience thus far. Lifetime average mileage is a few ticks over 29 MPG, and that's with predominantly urbanish driving. So to cut to the chase, I highly recommend the Versa for anyone shopping the segment.

Although you're coming from a fairly spacious SUV, I think you'll find that the 50 cubic feet of cargo space in the hatch (with rear seats folded) will still accomodate a decent load.

To answer your MT vs CVT questions:

1. Yes, the CVT has slightly higher MPG ratings from the EPA. This is due to the gearing of the MT - it just turns at slightly higher RPM at highway speeds than the CVT. For folks who don't do much highway driving this should be a non-issue.

2. I feel that a manual transmission is always a safer bet reliability-wise than an auto transmission, CVT or conventional. Manuals are inherently simpler, and parts like a new clutch are not excessively expensive or complicated. We went with the CVT since my wife isn't comfortable with a manual-shift, and I like the smooth power delivery.

As for available transmissions for given trim levels, the 1.8SL hatch is now only equipped with the CVT. To get the 6MT, you'll have to get the 1.8S, which means getting the less-durable interior cloth, no center armrest, no sunroof, no intelligent key, no Bluetooth, and no alloy rims. Whether any or all of this is important to you, I don't know, but it might sway your decision. The 1.8S can still be equipped with the power package and ABS, which goes a long way in bridging the gap to the SL. The new 1.6 base model can be had with a 5MT.

3. As far as I know, a remote starter can be installed on a car with a manual transmission. There's probably got to be a sensor where it won't work if left in gear. I'm pretty certain that a remote starter is not available stock, however.

[kc5f]

From my first car through the Versa I put about 750,000 miles on manuals and thought I'd never switch. A drive in the Versa and seeing the ratings changed that. I've now got over 83,000 trouble-free miles on my SL/CVT, and my daughter has over 25,000 on hers.

If we didn't drive so many highway miles it might be different, but the CVT runs at 2000rpm at 60mph and 2500rpm at 75mph and the numbers I remember are well over 3000rpm at 60mph for the manual. Of course, you can coast a lot with a manual and make up a lot of the difference, but I don't even hear the engine until I get to 3000rpm and that's pretty nice by itself, since I rarely get to 3000rpm.

One major difference for me with the SL vs S is cruise control. I know you can get it as an option, but it was the "final straw" for me that helped me decide to get the SL. Now I wouldn't go with anything else, with all of the other upgrades that come with it.

[tyler_ofspain]

From my first car through the Versa I put about 750,000 miles on manuals and thought I'd never switch. A drive in the Versa and seeing the ratings changed that. I've now got over 83,000 trouble-free miles on my SL/CVT, and my daughter has over 25,000 on hers.

If we didn't drive so many highway miles it might be different, but the CVT runs at 2000rpm at 60mph and 2500rpm at 75mph and the numbers I remember are well over 3000rpm at 60mph for the manual. Of course, you can coast a lot with a manual and make up a lot of the difference, but I don't even hear the engine until I get to 3000rpm and that's pretty nice by itself, since I rarely get to 3000rpm.

One major difference for me with the SL vs S is cruise control. I know you can get it as an option, but it was the "final straw" for me that helped me decide to get the SL. Now I wouldn't go with anything else, with all of the other upgrades that come with it.

Wow... now i want the cvt... that's my only complaint about the MT, my drive to work is mostly 60mph and i would expect a six speed to be a lot lower then 3000rpm at 60 in sixth!

[rwanttaja]

2. I feel that a manual transmission is always a safer bet reliability-wise than an auto transmission, CVT or conventional. Manuals are inherently simpler, and parts like a new clutch are not excessively expensive or complicated. We went with the CVT since my wife isn't comfortable with a manual-shift, and I like the smooth power delivery.

Well...I've owned about eight cars with manual transmissions, and six with automatics. Four of the cars with manuals have needed new clutches (one bad clutch replaced under warranty, the others replaced as the car got high mileage). I've only had to have an automatic transmission repaired once, that that was from damage caused by towing one of the manual-transmission cars!

I think automatics got a bad reputation when they first came out, but manufacturers are able to build reliable ones now. There may be cases where a particular design is messed up, but I haven't heard any negatives about Nissan CVT reliability.

One factor to consider is that the Versa manual transmission is apparently a bit strange. I've seen a lot of comments from folks that the RPM doesn't drop during a shift like cars normally do. Something to look at, when you go for a test drive.

Ron

[Rockhound]

Well...I've owned about eight cars with manual transmissions, and six with automatics. Four of the cars with manuals have needed new clutches (one bad clutch replaced under warranty, the others replaced as the car got high mileage). I've only had to have an automatic transmission repaired once, that that was from damage caused by towing one of the manual-transmission cars!

You've missed the point. Replacing a clutch is a) expected, at some point in the car's life and b) much, much cheaper than having an automatic transmission serviced. A lot of folks do their own clutch replacements, too, as it isn't the worst DIY maintenance, at least for some cars.

I'm talking about longevity here. Few folks take care of an automatic transmission the way they need to be, with regular fluid changes and such. A manual transmission, on average, is going to enjoy a much longer lifespan with more abuse than compared to an automatic. Replacing a clutch as compared to replacing a dead auto is a no-brainer to me.

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But anyway, yes, the CVT rocks. Like KC5F said, it keeps revs extremely low. There's plenty of usable torque at 2k RPMs - and the engine is almost silent until 3k. Whether this appeals to you likely depends upon your style and mode of driving. I don't find that the Versa's 1.8L has the most appealing engine-note, so keeping it nice and quiet under the hood suits me just fine. It's not bad, it's just not one of those engines that sounds like a symphony to a pistonhead's ears (think VQ37).

[snikad]

Maybe I'm missing something, or Nissan.ca is just stupid, but according to there website you can have a 1.8L SL hatch witht he 6MT the CVT is part of a CVT pkg, which just consists of the CVT. So appearntly I can get all other options tech pack, sports pack the whole shebang without the cvt. Maybe its different from canada then the United States? Honestly this is the feature that most excites me, because most auto makers only offer MT's in there baseline model, the only way your gonna get the bells and whistles on a MT is usually if its a luxury car.

[Rockhound]

Maybe I'm missing something, or Nissan.ca is just stupid, but according to there website you can have a 1.8L SL hatch witht he 6MT the CVT is part of a CVT pkg, which just consists of the CVT. So appearntly I can get all other options tech pack, sports pack the whole shebang without the cvt. Maybe its different from canada then the United States? Honestly this is the feature that most excites me, because most auto makers only offer MT's in there baseline model, the only way your gonna get the bells and whistles on a MT is usually if its a luxury car.

Sorry man, completely skimmed over your location. Yes, the trim levels and available accessories are different in Canada from the US. Now in the US the only way to get the 6MT is to go with the under-equipped S, which I'm not sure was such a smart decision. But Nissan seems to be pushing the CVT more, and perhaps sales numbers prompted this change.

[BBISHOPPCM]

You really cannot compare a CVT to... well... anything else out there. A CVT uses a far simpler mechanism to change ratios than a manual or even an automatic. CVT transmissions have more in common with a snowmobile or motor scooter's variable pulley system than anything. Really, the basic mechanism for a CVT is two variable pulleys and a belt made from steel plates banded together. CVT transmissions are capable of offering better mileage than a manual (paired with the same engine) because the gear ratios can be infinitely controlled based on throttle position, vehicle speed (and weight), and even temperature. The goal of the CVT transmission's computer is to keep the engine working as little as possible, to keep fuel consumption down. As for maintenance costs? really, there are none. A CVT will eventually need a fluid change (this is expensive, but it's cheaper than a clutch). The fluid will need to be changed somewhere between 60,000 miles and 150,000 miles... or when the computer says the fluid is "cooked."

The real misconception is that CVTs are more complicated and more prone to failure than a standard automatic, and this can't be further from the truth. The only advice I can give is this; CVTs are NOT designed for high performance use (yet), if you intend to modify your engine to cut down on your lap time, or if you intend to tow anything, a CVT is not for you. They do have limits, and can wear out just like a conventional automatic, but if the car is used for commuting and daily driving, it may last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

I'm pushing 55,000 miles and my CVT has been trouble free since day one. Knock on wood.

[rwanttaja]

You've missed the point. Replacing a clutch is a) expected, at some point in the car's life and b) much, much cheaper than having an automatic transmission serviced.

No, my point was that only *once* with six automatic-transmission cars have I needed *any* service on the transmission, and I've suffered a much higher rate of clutch repairs needed. And, again, that single failure was due to overstress, not normal usage. With the exception of the Jeeps (both immediate-post-war models with ~50 mph top ends), I don't think I've ever had any car that I didn't keep well over 100,000 miles.

Certainly I *expected* to replace the clutches, and about the time they failed. I'da been happier if they hadn't, though....

I'll grant you the cost to repair is generally less with a clutch. Some quick data points online showed about $600 for a clutch replacement (6-10 hours) vs. about $2,000 for an auto transmission rebuild. A clutch is doable by a shade-tree mechanic, but it does require the removal of either the engine or transmission to accomplish (e.g., takes more than a set of wrenches from Sears).

But, again, my experience with keeping cars for ~150,000 miles has yielded several clutch replacements, with no automatic transmission failures that weren't caused by towing a '51 Jeep 500 miles through 90 degree weather (in a 1974 Pontiac with a 6-cylinder engine and a REAL tall rear-end ratio).

It's kind of like the extended warranty issue. While they're usually a bad deal, some folks prefer the safety net of having the add-on insurance. Similarly, some folks may prefer to buy manual transmissions because of lower repair costs. But it really does depend, in both cases, how often something breaks.

Ron

[KimberKenobi]

I'm talking about longevity here. Few folks take care of an automatic transmission the way they need to be, with regular fluid changes and such. A manual transmission, on average, is going to enjoy a much longer lifespan with more abuse than compared to an automatic. Replacing a clutch as compared to replacing a dead auto is a no-brainer to me.

Seeing as the CVT requires less maintenance and experiences less wear than a traditional automatic, I think there's less of a problem with this. First fluid change isn't until 100k and every change thereafter is at the 100k mark. Traditional automatics need to be changed in the first 30k to clean out metal particles and there is a lot more contact/wear inside a traditional automatic. There is virtually no wear going on inside of a CVT. the wear that happens is to the rubber beads suspended in the fluid - not to the actual inside of the transmission.

I guess only time will tell what will happen with it, but I am confident in this technology.

[snikad]

CVT's have never been a problem in any of my sleds, but as far as ATV's i have had about 7 years of problems with CVTs so that is where my distaste for cvts comes from. Yes they are too very different applications, but question there reliability.

6mt for me even thow i may lose a few mpg, ill be getting more then double what my GC has anyway, so I wont feel i'm missing out.

As far as the smart key/inteli key or whatever its called its that i was curious about with the 6MT, I would only use the factory remote start, not aftermarket, have had whole electric systems go haywire because of aftermarket remote starts.

[BBISHOPPCM]

CVTs in sleds and ATVs are VERY different from the Jatco CVT used in Nissan products. The CVT in our vehicles is housed in a sealed case, uses steel belts, and friction is provided by a specialized fluid that doubles as a lubricant and coolant. Electrically operated servos control pulley position precisely. These transmissions have been known to last well over 100,000 miles without incident. In contrast, power sport applications use an exposed rubber belt with centrifugal variators and clutches. This type of transmission has an "expendable" belt that must be replaced when worn, and can snap or slip if left too long.

I am not trying to convince you either way, just trying to make sure the facts are out there for others reading this thread!

I actually intended to buy a 6 speed myself, as I generally detest automatics and enjoy driving a manual. I drove off with an SL CVT because it was available that very day, and I fell in love with it when I test drove it. I don't regret "settling" for a CVT!!