TAKATA AIR BAG RECALL - LEGAL UPDATE

[Larz]

LATEST UPDATE: 03/06

Last Tuesday, my service rep sent a driver to my home with a 2017 Nissan Rogue (loaner) and took my car and my new dash back to the shop. I had the new dash delivered directly to my home because I was concerned that, if delivered to the dealer, it might get 'misplaced' and be installed on someone else's M never to be seen again.
I decided to have my service rep take care a couple maintenance items while the car was in the shop. I grabbed my extra brake motive kit and chucked it into the back seat so they could install it (brakes were at '3' at the last oil / filter change. I also asked them to replace the PCV and check the battery, hoses, and belt to replace them if needed.
I got a call from him last Thursday and her told me they were doing the brakes. He said the belt and hoses were fine and the battery was testing fine as well. He said he expected them to do the air bag / new dash in Friday and he would let me know when finished. He called me Friday to tell me they are slammed with work and it was unlikely they would have everything done that day. No calls today. I'm hoping to hear any day now.
BTW, this Nissan Rogue is very nice. It's the SV model so no leather but otherwise drives very quiet, smooth, and comfy. It's not my cuppa tea, but it is a very nice car for a starter price of $25,000.

[Larz]

FINAL UPDATE:

I got my car back today. I can't describe how relieved I was when Jeffrey (my service rep) called and told me everything came out fine.
It was late (about 5pm) when I got the call and Fetucini and I were just about to go to dinner, so we drove to the dealer together. The whole time I was driving my loaner back to the dealer, I was letting my mind get the best of me. What does "fine" mean? Why didn't Jefferey say "perfect" or "great"? Did they make a hash of my dash? What if they made scrapes in my plastic vent pieces? What if the color of the new dash wasn't a perfect match to the rest of the grey pieces?, etc etc.
When we got there, the service area was almost empty and my car was parked right up front. The new wheels and tires looked brilliant! A couple of service techs were walking about the car and they commented about the car and asked where I got the wheels, etc.
The car was locked and Jefferey had the key fob in his office. I squinted through the window to see what I could of the new dash. Fetucini said " here we go, now remember, they did their very best". From what I could see, it looked like it was a perfect install, but the car was under the service roof and it was difficult to see clearly through the tinted window.
Jefferey came outside. I was mashing the door button over and over until he and my key fob were close enough to activate the door, LOL. I opened it, got inside, and I was smiling from ear hole to ear hole. Fetucini had to intro herself to Jefferey as I was just sat there, speechless and totally amazed. Being the jester she is, she asked Jefferey if he had a tissue for me, LOL.
I made a post about the new tires and wheels and the updates I had them do while the car was their prisoner. Here are the pics of the dash:
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They charged me $225.75 for labor to istall the new dash instead of re-installing the old. That was because the new dash does not come with many of the bits needed to mount the air bag. Those bits had to be removed from my old dash and installed on the new dash before they could install the air bag. That charge, plus the shipping from the dealer in Arizona made the total cost of the new dash nearly $2000. That was less than my dealer would have charged me after the back-order ended (3-5 weeks) but not by much.

So, in the end, I still have a Takata arse wipe air bag, but it has the added desiccant that should delay it transforming into a pipe bomb like the old one. I save a little money by shipping the new dash from Arizona and I didn't have to wait for weeks for my dealer to get me one. I could not be happier about the dash. I had a custom sized dash cover in grey suede that hid the damage on my old dash and I reckon I will place that on my new one to protect it. Couldn't hurt.

[gavnator]

I took my M in to Roswell Infiniti last Thursday for passenger air bag replacement as previously posted. They had the car for the day and gave me a Q70 loaner. No issues with the recall replacement. Interior looked exactly as it did when I brought it in. Had Infiniti change the oil/filter and replace battery as it was 6 years old. Guess I'll keep it a little while longer. Its only got 82,000 on the clock.

[ohessyou]

I'm not sure what this means but my dealer (Houston) tells me that they still don't have the parts to do my recall. The big hold up is the dash which they will be replacing for free. This is according to the service manager.

[Larz]

I hear you mate. My dealer still has the dash assembly on back order with no specific date expected for availability. My service rep Jeffrey tells me he has 3 self-pay customers waiting on a new dash and another 1 that are being replaced by corporate. That's 4 dashes (5 including mine) at one dealership! Apparently, there are many more dash issues than I previously suspected. Now I reckon that a HUGE number of M35/M45 's need new dashes - this makes me even more certain that there IS an issue with all of our dashes that leads to pre-mature wear, chipping, and surface deterioration. If not for the air bag recall, I might have believed Infiniti when they said it was not a frequent complaint. The truth always rides above the manure these corporations pile up to hide themselves from paying up.
I find it odd that my Florida dealer still can't provide a dash when I was able to purchase one from a dealer in Chicago over a month ago. Since yours is a free replacement, I wouldn't recommend paying about $2,000 like I did. For anyone that isn't getting a free dash, I recommend
http://www.infinitipartsonline.com/ . They found one for me and in very quick time.

[steve_c]

I am not clear on the dash issue. Is replacement part of the airbag recall, or does the owner pay for a new dash? Or is that corporate decides on a one to one basis?

[relentless1]

The Service Manager inspected my dash when I brought it in and confirmed mine to be in excellent shape. He did say that if they damage the dash during the air bag replacement then the dash would be replaced. Mine took a day and half to complete and the only difference I noticed when I got my car back was that the passenger vent was sort of mis-aligned. No big deal since all I had to do was push it in.

[Larz]

I am not clear on the dash issue. Is replacement part of the airbag recall, or does the owner pay for a new dash? Or is that corporate decides on a one to one basis?

The simple answer is: NO. Dash replacement is NOT part of the recall.
Dunno if all dealers do this but in Florida they are required to take detailed photos of the dash before and after the air bag recall is performed.
If any damage is done to the dash while removing or reinstalling it, those photos are used to send a claim to have Infiniti replace the dash, but Jeffrey at my dealer told me he has sent photos clearly proving damage to the dash as a result of the service work and Infiniti has denied coverage, stating the dash was old, or weak, or some other way to get out of paying. It seems hit or miss if you damaged dash will be replaced.

My dash looked perfect since purchase. I noticed a corner where it had a very small hairline crack one day. Over the next 2-3 of months it went from pristine, to peeling, chipping, and developed a sort of sticky surface. There would be no way my dash would survive removal and reinstalling and once the before photos were taken, I had two chances of a free replacement: Bob Hope and NO hope. I had to buy a new one and pay a reduced install charge for the dealer to install my new dash instead of my old dash as part of the recall.

[Amgberg]

Takata Airbag Recall

...
Infiniti is focusing on the High Absolute Humidity (HAH) Region: Florida is the #1 state in the HAH region, but it includes the following (as of July 27, 2016):
Alabama
American Samoa
Florida
Georgia
Guam
Hawaii
Louisiana
Mississippi
Puerto Rico
Saipan
Texas
U.S. Virgin Islands

...
To find out if your vehicle is listed, go the following website and enter your VIN:
http://www.safercar.gov/CheckForRecalls
...

Is it only for the states you listed? I'm in Philadelphia but that sounds dangerous no matter what state U live in!

[steve_c]

Is it only for the states you listed? I'm in Philadelphia but that sounds dangerous no matter what state U live in!

I am in southern NY, and I just received my notification about a month ago that my 06M is part of the recall.
It is the initial notification, warning me of the hazard & stating I will be notified again when parts come in to then set up an appointment for repair.

[DS2009m35x]

Same notification. I'm in Ct.

[Amgberg]

Is in only in those states? If your state isn't listed you can't get the recall done?

[DS2009m35x]

Is it only for the states you listed? I'm in Philadelphia but that sounds dangerous no matter what state U live in!

I am in southern NY, and I just received my notification about a month ago that my 06M is part of the recall.
It is the initial notification, warning me of the hazard & stating I will be notified again when parts come in to then set up an appointment for repair.

I'm in CT and received the same notification two weeks ago.

[Larz]

It's NOT limited to any states. That list came from Infiniti and represents those states that are deemed to be higher than average risk due to temp fluctuation, humidity, etc. The recall is for M's regardless of the state where registered. Supposedly, not every M has the air bags in question and only those models / years with the Takata brand will generate a letter to the owner with the recall notice. I believe it is possible for your dealer to submit your VIN and see if your car is on that list. There may be other websites that will also allow you to check via VIN.

[ORGramps]

Just a thought, but has anyone done an "audit check" to see what the condition of the propellant was in the removed bags. Were they in fact a pipe bomb ready to explode?

[Larz]

I seriously doubt that each propellant module gets tested after removal. Seems unlikely and unnecessary. It's about the deaths and injuries, not a quality control exercise.
That sounds a bit harsh, I know. Just saying that the focus should remain on preventing more carnage, not verification that replacement was the right way to go.

[EdBwoy]

I'm with you in that the purpose should be to preserve lives and the quality thereof.

I also would be interested in the audits. Not as a quality check, but more so as circling back on a learning basis:
"Our models predicted the chemicals would be stable for 25 years, but it seems that in real world applications 15 years is more realistic. Should we just recommend replacement at half the life expectancy?"
Or
"We expected a gradual decay of the components but it seems that it's a sudden failure. All these units look good until they unexpectedly explode. Let's use trendable chemicals with a warning ssytem like the oil life monitor"

[steve_c]

I'm with you in that the purpose should be to preserve lives......

History has showed us that saving lives has never been an issue in the auto industry when bad engineering was at fault.
The issue has been the bottom line to the company($$$).
If a poorly engineered auto/truck took a few lives, the liability payout could be cheaper then what a recall & fix would amount too!
That is where the actuaries (bean counters) kicked in. They predicted how many lives could be expected to be lost, and the resulting payouts VS the costs for recalls & fixes. Whichever was cheaper was the way they proceeded. Seems heartless, but it was strictly business!

Thankfully, in this day & age, data on such incidences is now accessible to the consumer...often close to real time...so keeping things hushed from the public is much harder to do.

[Larz]

You both make great points. Unfortunately in this case, it was already a known fact that this specific propellant was "unstable" to the degree that virtually EVERY manufacturer declined to use it ... accept Takata. Even today, after Takata added a desiccant to reduce the effects of temp swings and moisture, the propellant will STILL break down - just more slowly. What I can't work out is why would Takata keep using it, and why would any car maker agree to make it part of their car ?
The obvious answer is exactly as Steve and Ed explained: cost Vs reward and the consumers kept in the dark long as possible. But in this case, the cover has been lifted, the truth is out, and with no significant change. Takata are still making these units, car makers are still placing them in their models, and people are still buying those cars.
Let's say for argument sake that using a brand other than Takata with a supposedly safer propellant would cost $20 per unit. Car makers would have no trouble adding the entire $20 to the list price of the car and I would gladly pay $65,220 instead of $65,200 for the comfort of knowing the air bag would not kill myself or my passenger.

[steve_c]

.... Let's say for argument sake that using a brand other than Takata with a supposedly safer propellant would cost $20 per unit. Car makers would have no trouble adding the entire $20 to the list price of the car and I would gladly pay $65,220 instead of $65,200 for the comfort of knowing the air bag would not kill myself or my passenger.

Good point!
We know that with only 9 deaths (from what I see published) from Takata airbag defects out of millions in use, the costs vs liability factor seems to warrant the pace of how this recall is going, and the sustained usage of Takata as replacements.
When all is said & done however, we will have fewer vehicles with Takata airbag inflators overall, as Autoliv kicks in to increase production of their inflator units.
I think taking Takata out of the picture would be impossible at this point, as Autoliv would not be able to fulfill new OEM orders, as well as OEM service parts, not to mention having to replace the recalled Takata units with those of their own! They could never keep up with the demand!

Why doesn't Takata move over to the more acceptable proven deflator formula?
Could it be Patent protections they might be infringing upon?

Being in the bus business for many years, I learned the golden rule in hiring a manufacturer to spec out a new coach for you is to be able to have 2 sources of parts suppliers to be sure if an OEM vendor supplied part goes bad, you have an option to outsource from at least one other supplier. This keeps you from loosing an entire fleet should a problem occur, which thankfully, rarely happens. It does happen however, remember the Audi VW ignition coil failure debacle? Was it Toyota that had the pedal assembly defect? Putting your eggs in one vendor basket can cause a nightmare should your OEM part supplier suffer an issue. Can you imagine if all Infiniti's used the Takata bag inflator? wow, what a mess it would be!

I am digressing here..to get back on track with Larz's point, check this out, lesson learned from Takata airbag inflators!

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016032 ... irbag-mess

[Larz]

As much as I hate to resuscitate old threads, I felt an update was in order. We now know that Takata is a family-owned low-rent, bastard-run company, but we haven't really assessed the implications resulting from this recall - including it's cost to auto makers and consumers. Below is a quick blurb to bring us all up to date on how this company's deception was discovered, why executives at Takata were indicted, and where we are today.

Takata has recalled, or expects to recall, by 2019 about 125 million vehicles worldwide, including more than 60 million in the United States. Its airbag inflators have been linked to at least 16 deaths and 180 injuries around the world because they can rupture and send metal fragments flying. Investigations and whistle-blower testimony revealed that as early as 1999, Takata knew that it's ammonium nitrate based propellant was not performing to specifications required for US auto makers so they falsified critical test data and continued selling sub-standard products to US auto makers. Takata employees – including a number of key executives – routinely discussed the falsification of test reports being provided to Takata’s customers in email and in verbal communications. Even after the inflation devices began to experience repeated problems in the field – including ruptures causing injuries and deaths – Takata executives continued to withhold the true test information and data from their customers for almost 15 years. This resulted in US Dept of Justice charges of fraud and conspiracy, ending in a plea agreement and payment of 1 billion dollars for criminal restitution. Many auto makers are looking elsewhere to obtain air bag components, decreasing sales at Takata and worsening it's financial health.

In June this year, Takata filed for bankruptcy protection in the US and Japan. Takata have also reached an agreement with it's rival called KSS (Key Safety Systems) headquartered in Michigan, US to restructure and purchase just about 100% of Takata's global assets. The deal will allow Takata to continue producing air bag inflators without interruption after re-organization. The costs of the air bag recall will remain with Takata. KSS will not be responsible for completion of the recall.
The new combined KSS/Takata will have about 60,000 employees in 23 countries. KSS says it plans to retain almost all of Takata’s employees and does not intend to close any of the company’s manufacturing facilities. The actual transaction is set to be completed in early 2018. However, there is no guarantee that these facilities will remain open in 2-3 years after the recall is completed, so no telling what might become of KSS/Takata employees down the road. Yet more fallout to come.

After the bankruptcy is finalized, the purchase of Takata assets by KSS is finalized, the Rehabilitation requirements in Japan have been met and approved, and the payment to the US Dept of Justice from it's plea agreement, it is estimated that only 2 billion dollars will remain to pay for the estimated 5 billion dollar cost to complete the air bag recalls. Because KSS is not responsible for any recalls, auto makers will have to absorb most of the cost of the recall. And we all know what corporations do when they are beset with an unexpected, added expense. Look to your left, look to your right. That is where the money always comes from.

On a scary side note, Takata also produces seat belts, child safety seats, sensors, electronics, and other 'safety' equipment to auto makers world-wide.

[steve_c]

My wife received a Chapter 11 notice from TK Holdings Inc. (Takata).
It is a notice authorized by a federal court explaining the upcoming proceedings & the rights of all who are effected by the "*PSAN" Takata airbag Inflator.

Funny thing is, she has a BMW that might be inclusive of the issue, that car is registered in her name only.

The Infiniti M I have is registered in my name only, has the Takata inflator, but as of this writing I have not received this notice.

This oversized postcard (both sides) includes info pertaining to my rights to file a claim if I have already, or may in the future, suffer a monetary loss, personal injury, or death resulting from the Takata PSAN inflator.

If any mod wishes to post the card to this thread, please forward me your E-mail addy, and I will send you a copy of the notice for posting.

"*PSAN" Phase Stabilized Ammonium Nitrate