T3 TRIM 60 Vs TO4E TRIM 50

[Edub1]

Ok, I see a lot of guys like the TO4E 50 trim. But here is the thing. I don't want to push my car too hard. 300HP or about 12lbs is the most I want to chance on stock internals with 100,000 miles. I understand 14lbs is danger zone even with the best tune and that just barely touches the sweet spot on the TO4E map.

So, I'm thinking that I might be better of with a T3 60 trim that will spool quicker and run more efficiantly at the lower boost & rpm levels. Let us not forget that lag time is lost time and that time can add up quick.

That is why a 2005 Corvette with about 290HP at the rear wheels and a 3,700lb curb weight will pull a 12.5 second 1/4 mile. Plus, I hate the thought of beating my motor twice as hard to make up for lost time.

Anyway, this is how it looks on paper.

What do you guys think? Am I too conservative as to what my motor can handle? Am I making to much of the spooling issue? Most importantly, has anyone here ran a T3 60 trim?

According to the maps, the T3 looks better for my application - but that's just on paper. I need feedback - please help.

[nissanfanatic]

Just to let you know, T04E w/.63ar stage3 wheel spools pretty damn fast. Like 3400 full 10psi fast. 1st gear on dirt will crack the wastegate with ease...

So I can't imagine how fast a .48ar would spool.... And it will support your goals.

Compressor has little to do with spool times. You should focus on turbine wheel trim and housing size for spool times. Focus strictly on efficiency for compressor side. Which both turbos look to be efficient, although the T04E will support from 200whp-430whp+ efficiently making it a better all around turbo IMO.

[Jimmyg41]

That is why a 2005 Corvette with about 290HP at the rear wheels and a 3,700lb curb weight will pull a 12.5 second 1/4 mile. Plus, I hate the thought of beating my motor twice as hard to make up for lost time.

Just to let you know the Corvette has a curb weight of 3100lbs. and puts nearly down somewhere in the neighborhood of 360whp.

That being said, I agree with Nissanfanatic, the TO4E is a much better turbo all around and it has more potential for future boost applications. A lot of people star boosting low but once they do they get bit by the boost bug and keep aiming higher.

[DammitBobby]

.48 AR turbine side spools 10psi around 2800 to 3000. Hard to tell it moves so fast. Hopefully when I get some DAM VALVE COVER BOLTS. I will be able to drive the car around and see. Actually it would be better if I get the boost option for my Zeitronix and data log it.

57 Trim.60 Compressor side

Stage III wheel.48 AR Turbine

[Edub1]

Just to let you know the Corvette has a curb weight of 3100lbs. and puts nearly down somewhere in the neighborhood of 360whp.

That being said, I agree with Nissanfanatic, the TO4E is a much better turbo all around and it has more potential for future boost applications. A lot of people star boosting low but once they do they get bit by the boost bug and keep aiming higher.

The 2006 Corvette dropped to 3100lbs. The 2005 was 3700lbs and 350 SAE net HP at the crank. The 2006 Z06 has 500HP but it's also $70,000 at the onset.

Back to the topic...

I'm thinking that if I boost higher than about 12lbs I'll blow my motor.

[Jookmasta]

i run the t3 60 trim..................lag is needless to say nonexistant. i get full boost whenever i want it in whatever gear i want. be wary that u will need the .63 a/r exhaust housing cuz the t3 will NOT be able to make the numbers a t04e can in the long run. like it was said earlier, the t04e gives u room to play if the boost bug bites u. do a compression check to see how ur motor is doing. i went turbo at around 142K so dont think 100K is alot of miles if ur motor was taken care of or is currently in good shape.

[Edub1]

i run the t3 60 trim..................lag is needless to say nonexistant. i get full boost whenever i want it in whatever gear i want. be wary that u will need the .63 a/r exhaust housing cuz the t3 will NOT be able to make the numbers a t04e can in the long run. like it was said earlier, the t04e gives u room to play if the boost bug bites u. do a compression check to see how ur motor is doing. i went turbo at around 142K so dont think 100K is alot of miles if ur motor was taken care of or is currently in good shape.

My stock KA runs like a raped ape - I have nothing but confidence in her. I'm just afraid that the boost bug might bite me in the arss if I'm sitting on that To4E.

[SeVa-S13]

The 2006 Corvette dropped to 3100lbs. The 2005 was 3700lbs and 350 SAE net HP at the crank. The 2006 Z06 has 500HP but it's also $70,000 at the onset.

Back to the topic...

I'm thinking that if I boost higher than about 12lbs I'll blow my motor.

Not to drag this on, but the 2005 models were of the new body style aswell, so I'll just assume you meant the 2004's as they had the old LS1's with the 350hp. They weigh around 3,200.

Now onto the issue...if you're worried about spool time, just go with the .48 a/r turbine. Sure you'll limit some topend but you're obviously not after pure performance, just a more powerful and fun daily. The 50 trim T04E is such a great budget compressor and I've used it on two different engines and have loved it both times. The 50 trim is considerably more efficient all over than the 57 trim and creates boost sooner too. The super 60, while being a great T3, is still a smaller compressor, meaning less efficient and higher temps at full boost, meaning more stress on the engine.

[C-Kwik]

So, I'm thinking that I might be better of with a T3 60 trim that will spool quicker and run more efficiantly at the lower boost & rpm levels. Let us not forget that lag time is lost time and that time can add up quick.

Actually, both turbos hit 74% efficiency at about the same boost level. It will occur at a higher airflow rate on the T04E 50, but the T3 tends to be on the inefficient side on a KA at higher RPM regardless of boost. At about 12 psi. the T04E 50 will cross through the 78% efficiency island, where in the T3 60, the most you may see is 75%. And most of that will occur in the midrange, dropping to 70% or so by redline. The T04E 50 will only see as low as about 76% at redline.

And if one concern is reducing stress on the motor, the more efficient turbo will actually be better. The more efficient turbo will reduce heat in the charge air, which gives a better margin for preventing detonation. The Efficiency of a turbo is quite dependent on the aerodynamics inside the turbo, and higher efficiencies mean better aerodynamics. So at higher efficiencies, the compressor needs less shaft torque to drive the compressor. This means less air needs to flow through the turbine and more can be diverted through the wastegate. This results in lower backpressure to the motor, frees up power and increases longevity.

[Edub1]

I guess I'm looking for the TO4E 50 trim compressor then. Thanks for the input guys.

[Edub1]

Not to drag this on, but the 2005 models were of the new body style aswell, so I'll just assume you meant the 2004's as they had the old LS1's with the 350hp. They weigh around 3,200.

Now onto the issue...if you're worried about spool time, just go with the .48 a/r turbine. Sure you'll limit some topend but you're obviously not after pure performance, just a more powerful and fun daily. The 50 trim T04E is such a great budget compressor and I've used it on two different engines and have loved it both times. The 50 trim is considerably more efficient all over than the 57 trim and creates boost sooner too. The super 60, while being a great T3, is still a smaller compressor, meaning less efficient and higher temps at full boost, meaning more stress on the engine.

Your right, I'm thinking 2004 and they are 32480. I was a little off on the 1/4 mile too - 12.98. But that's still some damn good numbers for 350HP. Anyway, you guys talked me into it. I'm going T04E 50 trim. So if I send my cyliner head into orbit I can blame it on all of you.

[hannibal]

One more thought...The T3/T4 can reach 300whp around 12psi. The 60trim T3 will need more boost to hit 300whp (I'm guessing 15psi).

[WDRacing]

Just be sure to get the T3/TO4E not a TO4E. You'll want the .48 ar hotside if you want a quicker spool.

Another thing, boost has nothing to do with blowing your motor as long as the tune is good. If you have fuel and ignition taken care of, then boost isn't the issue. The issue is the strength of the internals themselves. Stay under 350ft lbs and you should be ok. We've been seeing rods bend/snap with much more then that as of late.

Chano, good to see you're still around to help out. I thought we lost you to the darkside forever.

[C-Kwik]

Chano, good to see you're still around to help out. I thought we lost you to the darkside forever.

Thanks...turbos will always fascinate me. Such a simple device in the mechanics, yet so deceptively complex in application. I'm still a KA-T guy at heart. Unfortunately the law gets in teh way of so many of my pleasures...



But personally, I would go with the larger A/R or even the turbine. But I will give up boost threshold for more power.

[WDRacing]

We think along the same lines. I'm not afraid of a little lag. Especially if the efficiency island goes way up.

I hear ya with the Law. I will never live in Cali because of CARB...

[GhostDrifter]

I have the same goals(300rwhp, around 10psi) but I have a T04E w/ a 40trim. I just want to know how different the 40trim is compared to the 50 trim.

[C-Kwik]

http://turboneticsinc.com/cm_e40.htm

http://turboneticsinc.com/cm_e50.htm

Quick summary:The 50 trim boasts a higher 78% peak efficiency island. the 40 only has a peak island of 76%. Not necessarily huge from a peak standpoint, but look at the size of each of the 76% islands. The 50 trim's 76% island is massive over both a wide range of airflow and boost pressure. 76% is attainable all they way to about 32 psi on the 50 and only about 23 psi on the 40 trim. Probably not a big deal for most s even 23 psi would yield quite a bit of power. The 50 trim actually has better efficiency even at low boost pressures. With moderate boost levels, you probably will not notice much of a difference in power or response. And the 40 trim a pretty good match for the KA. Since you already have the 40 trim, I wouldn't worry about it. But if you ever munch the turbo, a 50 trim will meet almost everyone's needs for a KA and do it very well.