I'm an older gamer and I'm on the same page as you. I said as much when Goldeneye was re-released years ago and everyone got all turgid for it.RCA wrote:Oh dear...
The excitement for this game is being fueled by nostalgia, right!? I don't mean to sh*t on any ones childhood but this game looks horrible.
(Ensue "get off my lawn" comments)
Goldeneye was a s*** game from the start. Shock 2 was a brilliant game.BusyBadger wrote:I'm an older gamer and I'm on the same page as you. I said as much when Goldeneye was re-released years ago and everyone got all turgid for it.
Weird... that's not the kind of comment I expected to see from you of all people... I could easily say the same for many of the tabletop games we both enjoy. Since when does age mean anything? A good game is a good game. It doesn't just stop being good after some set number of years. And this one was hard to find for years due to copyright issues, so being able to get a proper legal copy is a big deal for a lot of people. The copyright issues also meant that a lot of people who didn't get onboard originally were out of luck if they wanted to try it out later on, which means this gog release is a extremely welcome.BusyBadger wrote:You're missing the point but whatever, enjoy your fifteen year old game.
I absolutely agree. But it's not going to happen. I'm still quite happy to be able to play the original again.BusyBadger wrote:If the game is that good then make it again with the same mechanics but take advantage of the new technology(ies) that are available.
...we both know you can do better than that.MinisterofDOOM wrote:Goldeneye was a s*** game from the start. Shock 2 was a brilliant game.
As an owner of the original, I wholeheartedly agree. Fortunately, so do many others. Take your pick:BusyBadger wrote:Ultima Underworld needs a reboot, speaking of old games
Not odd. Intentional. I know Levine was involved with both, which is exactly why I brought it up. You can't NOT know, since he spent ages leading up to the release of Bioshock talking about how it's System Shock 2's "spiritual successor". Which set bars very high for people who loved SS2. And then he went and did exactly what you said: he made it NOT like System Shock 2. Which IS ABSOLUTELY FINE, except that he had just finished telling everyone that it was supposed to be like SS2. It jaded a lot of opinions. But regardless of whether Bioshock was really supposed to be like System Shock 2 or not, it's an example of how "modernizing" a good formula can ruin it. The approachability and simplification of every SS2 feature that made it into Bioshock might have helped it sell more and reach a wider audience, but it DID NOT make for a better game. Nor did the better graphics. It made a different game, sure. But that's my point: if I wanted to play a game that's not System Shock 2, I wouldn't want to play System Shock 2! Which is why I don't give a damn about remakes and am perfectly happy to play the dated, ugly, fifteen year old original.BusyBadger wrote:Odd that you mention Bioshock wanting to grow up to be System Shock since Ken Levine had a major hand in both of them, I think if he'd have wanted Bioshock to be like System Shock he would have done that...I'd like to get his take on that.
In all honesty, it WAS just a bad attempt at sarcastic trolling. You poked fun at the excitement around the Goldeneye rerelease, so I jumped on board a chance to poke fun at one of the most irritatingly over-popular games in history.BusyBadger wrote:...we both know you can do better than that.MinisterofDOOM wrote:Goldeneye was a s*** game from the start. Shock 2 was a brilliant game.
This. This this this this this this this this this x129871294.MinisterofDOOM wrote:I dunno...I just don't see the obsession with graphics.
I didn't know that this was an issue. Makes sense that people are excited. Is System Shock like Deus Ex? A great title that no matter what it looks like, it's still a game you want in your library?MinisterofDOOM wrote:The copyright issues also meant that a lot of people who didn't get onboard originally were out of luck if they wanted to try it out later on, which means this gog release is a extremely welcome...
Graphics CAN improve enjoyability and immersion. CAN. But they are far from the most important thing to a game experience.
You're kidding yourself if you think graphics doesn't play any factor. I never played through the entire OoT but I have played through the 1st 20mins or so. I played it 10 years after release and it played well but the graphics brought my experience to a halt (N64 textures, cringe). You played OoT shortly after release so the graphics weren't a barrier and you had an amazing experience. Now when you go back to playing it you have graphics horse blinders on because of your nostalgic experience.Ace2cool wrote:For SS2, I'm sure it's about the experience. The feeling you get while playing it.
Absolutely. Although I would feel like Deus Ex's borderline-cheesy pulp-noir visual style (that's not a criticism...for many it's an appealing trait) has helped its visuals age more gracefully than System Shock's less stylized look has.RCA wrote:I didn't know that this was an issue. Makes sense that people are excited. Is System Shock like Deus Ex? A great title that no matter what it looks like, it's still a game you want in your library?
I both agree and disagree here. Even when OoT was brand-spanking-new, the texture resolutions STILL made my eyes bleed. However, the gameplay was not undermined by that. I certainly wasn't impressed by the visuals. But it was a fun game despite the low-res textures. OoT is one another of those games whose high praise has always confused me a little. It's a VERY fun game (I own four copies of it, all different versions). But I never held it up as the standard by which all Zelda should be judged. Link's Awakening and Link to the Past were both superior before it, and Windwaker and arguably even Majora's Mask were superior afterward.RCA wrote:I never played through the entire OoT but I have played through the 1st 20mins or so. I played it 10 years after release and it played well but the graphics brought my experience to a halt (N64 textures, cringe). You played OoT shortly after release so the graphics weren't a barrier and you had an amazing experience. Now when you go back to playing it you have graphics horse blinders on because of your nostalgic experience.
No I didn't. I played it last week, and it's still f*cking legit. I didn't have an N64 until the Xbox 360 was initially released. I didn't play OOT until about the same time. (didn't play it on N64 though, cause I was too cheap for the expansion pack.) I played it on Wii virtual console when they first released it, and understood what I was missing. It's an amazing game, and stands the test of time. If you're one of those graphics are everything type people, that's what's killing originality and re-playability of games.RCA wrote:You played OoT shortly after release so the graphics weren't a barrier and you had an amazing experience. Now when you go back to playing it you have graphics horse blinders on because of your nostalgic experience.
From the PS4 & Next Xbox Reveal thread:MinisterofDOOM wrote:I dunno...I just don't see the obsession with graphics.
And I found this when I was trying to remember when I went on record here about the unimportant level graphics played in a videogame, in this case it was Halo: ODSTMinisterofDOOM wrote:The good stuff:
A CONSOLE FINALLY HAS ENOUGH VIDEO RAM TO DO SOMETHING WITH!!!! AND IT'S GDDR5!!! AFTER FOUR GENERATIONS of wondering what the HELL the designers were thinking when packing in so little texture memory, I'm finally looking at specs that make sense. Someone FINALLY woke up and realized you can't drive HD or 4k video at decent framerates without a lot of memory. 2GB is WAY more than I could have hoped for (more than my midrange videocard has!!!)
MinisterofDOOM wrote:Also, the character faces look TERRIBLE. I've seen better from PS2 games.
Then you admit to viewing a low-res trailer, snap decision much (based on limited information no less)? But still, there's this...MinisterofDOOM wrote:All the more reason for it to not look like s***.Plus...Halo 3 (and even Halo 2) never had any problems rendering faces in more detail than that. Why does this guy have a 4-poly beak-nose and two flat eyes and nothing more? The Aliens-ripoff Sarge dude certainly had better facial detail than this squad leader guy does.
...and then I noticed the dude's 7-polygon face and cringed...
For someone that doesn't care a lot about graphics you certainly seem to frequently post about them.MinisterofDOOM wrote:The low res trailer was partly to blame. I downloaded the high res one at home (bandwidth at work is crap) and everything looks a lot better. Still, the detail in Nathan Fillion's digital face is pretty lacking.
Couple of games for you & Ace since graphics aren't that important...George Lucas wrote:"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."
"Would color distract from their comedy and make it not as funny anymore? Maybe just the fact that they're in black and white makes it funny, because their humor is dated. By putting it in black and white, it puts it in a context where you can appreciate it for what it was. But you try to make it in full, living color and try to compare it to a Jim Carrey movie, then it's hard for young people to understand."
MinisterofDOOM wrote:Bad or dated graphics are certainly NOTICEABLE, but I do maintain that they don't interfere with enjoyment unless they're severely broken or something like that.
Wow, I have a much higher threshold for graphics. I am upset with myself because my first Elder Scrolls game was Skyrim. The game looks so good that my immersion is immediately broken when playing Oblivion. From my research Oblivion is a great game and I can't even enjoy it. Also from what I've read Morrowind is even better but I throw up watching video from it, let alone playing it. I can't even finish one of my favorite games growing up, Vice City. It's a great game but I couldn't enjoy playing it. I did play through the entirety of Aladdin on a SNES emulator. I didn't enjoy the game as much as I enjoyed still remembering every hidden area and how to beat the bosses. Growing up it took me like 5 months to beat that game, as an adult it took me like 3 hours.Ace2cool wrote:No I didn't. I didn't have an N64 until the Xbox 360 was initially released. I didn't play OOT until about the same time. (didn't play it on N64 though, cause I was too cheap for the expansion pack.) I played it on Wii virtual console when they first released it, and understood what I was missing. It's an amazing game, and stands the test of time.
There's just something about the older gen games that just had better playability to them, mainly because the system didn't have the power to make the graphics good, so they compensated with awesome story.
I'm honestly not really playing both sides of the fence. There's a difference between expecting MODERN showcase games and hardware to meet certain standards, and defending the playability and relevance of older games with necessarily aged visuals. There's also the "reviewer aspect" of a lot of those quotes: not necessarily stuff I personally care about, but stuff worth criticizing. Like the terrible passenger entertainment system in the Caravan I rented over the summer. I don't particularly care about it, but it is nonetheless a terrible design, which is worth noting. You'll find that most games I criticize in that way are games that have positioned themselves as icons, so I judged based on that arrogance.BusyBadger wrote:It's just fascinating the way you play both sides of the fence, seemingly disregarding older, now sub-par graphics, as is the case in SS2 or Metroid but holding them of large import in a franchise that you don't much care for, i.e., Halo.
I still play Zork fairly often, actually. I love text adventures. Especially ones in which you are likely to be eaten by a Grue. Also still enjoy some classic King's Quest and Ultima 1 on my old 286 (which currently won't boot because it needs a new CMOS cell )
As to Dune, you might have an argument in regards to the first book alone. The series as a whole, though, is not overrated. It's underappreciated. The best books are the second and fourth (not in that order). I've also never thought of it as scifi. It's philosophy. Even the first one. Maybe especially the first one. But the last two are much closer to sci-fi (the post-Scattering universe is more "clean" and false-utopian).BusyBadger wrote:I don't have the time or energy to address the Halo mediocre argument, even if it did singlehandedly solidify the Xbox's presence in the marketplace, show that an FPS could work on a console, nail down an aggregate 97% on Metacritic (console version only, the PC port from Gearbox got an 83%) where it doesn't have a single mixed or negative review. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Personally I think that Dune is the most overrated piece of sci-fi ever written. Speaking of books, I can't even believe you tried to make that argument, two different medias completely.