OK , So I ran the engine low on oil pressure, and to be safe, was going to do the bearings, and started looking at Q's for sale, and found a great motor in a wrecked one, 105, 000 miles, 1 owner, great shape, pulled the cover. Great maintanice history in glovebox.
Problem is I used a 90 harness as my donor, and the motor is a 95. I am not using a egr, air bypass valve, or anything like that, just the o2's tps, coolant, the basics. I will use my polished intake and vavle covers, the first takes care of the traction butterfly valve on newer intake. I figuer the connectors are the same one the main harness to the injector main harness, and so I dont need to pull them, just hid them in the back. I think though that the cam sensor is an issue. BUT can I just pull the 95unit and put on the 90 and be done? I plan on using everything off the other motor, as I know it works GREAT.
What do you see as obstacles between the 2 motors, Can I just use all the 95 stuff? I know a few people have been through this on the Q, Thank you, Craig
SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ??
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craigztoyz
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craigztoyz
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craigztoyz
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Re: (Carl H)
I have the new engine apart, BEAUTIFUL.
The covers are toatlly different, and the 90's wiring and such for the coil works great on the 95 coil packs. I will put the control module from old covers to the 95's, and that takes care of that part, the inj, is all the same, there is a coolant switch in the y on the 95 that is not on my old one, so not using it, BUT
THE CAS-----------------------
anyone able to tell me the function of the wires on the 90 cas, I know the green is neg and red is pos on its power line, but hte 95 does not have a power line, only the 4 wires like the 90. Hoping to be able to adapt the wiring.
HELP ON THE WIRING OF the cas plese.
other then that, I have all the intake off, top/front covers, and workin on removing the exhaust, and flywheel. then cut block for starter to clear. Later tonight comes the pan.
THANK YOU craig
The covers are toatlly different, and the 90's wiring and such for the coil works great on the 95 coil packs. I will put the control module from old covers to the 95's, and that takes care of that part, the inj, is all the same, there is a coolant switch in the y on the 95 that is not on my old one, so not using it, BUT
THE CAS-----------------------
anyone able to tell me the function of the wires on the 90 cas, I know the green is neg and red is pos on its power line, but hte 95 does not have a power line, only the 4 wires like the 90. Hoping to be able to adapt the wiring.
HELP ON THE WIRING OF the cas plese.
other then that, I have all the intake off, top/front covers, and workin on removing the exhaust, and flywheel. then cut block for starter to clear. Later tonight comes the pan.
THANK YOU craig
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craigztoyz
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Re: (craigztoyz)
and the FSM for the 90-93 has never worked. If anyone has wiring info from one for the cas, please post it.
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craigztoyz
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- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:19 pm
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Re: SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ?? (craigztoyz)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok I got it. To put a 95 engine into a 90, is a piece of cake. No wiring issues.
the plastic pieces with the electric and coil wiring goes straight onto the 95, fits great, wiring too. So spark is done,
Wiring at Injector harness is the same, just leave the harness's that are in plenium, as they plug striaght into 90 harness, The 95 has an extra coolant temp switch intalled into the y in the valley. With it, you could put a switch in there for the cans, or gauge. Injectors done, I am using he 90 Upper, so no TCS, I already am not using the air bypass, so none of it, and same with EGR.
CAS------- OK
There are 4 wires here are how they connect
90 ECU 95
Black Ground BlackBlack / White + from ECCS RELAY Black / WhiteGreen / Yellow ECU 42 Black / PinkGreen / Black ECU 41, 51 Orange
42 is the Cam postion Reference Signal41 is the Cam position Signal
They both feed a signal TO the ECU.
Black with white stripe is + off the eccs Relay.
Black is a ground.
That is it. the 95 does not need the 90's red and green wired plug. It is a power for the sensor, and not needed.
the valve covers are not interchangeable, just the plastic inner, and wiring, The coils are exactly the same. One engine is # 7757, and one is 107359, so they are very far apart, one is a feb 90 build date, and one is oct 17, 94.
So now you know, you dont have to get a older engine, and that dee de dee guy in FL who screwed up the girls car, could have done it simple if he had sat back and looked at it, and test fitted, and tried. Piece of cake, Craig.
P.S. This new motor is so clean inside, great history.
Ok I got it. To put a 95 engine into a 90, is a piece of cake. No wiring issues.
the plastic pieces with the electric and coil wiring goes straight onto the 95, fits great, wiring too. So spark is done,
Wiring at Injector harness is the same, just leave the harness's that are in plenium, as they plug striaght into 90 harness, The 95 has an extra coolant temp switch intalled into the y in the valley. With it, you could put a switch in there for the cans, or gauge. Injectors done, I am using he 90 Upper, so no TCS, I already am not using the air bypass, so none of it, and same with EGR.
CAS------- OK
There are 4 wires here are how they connect
90 ECU 95
Black Ground BlackBlack / White + from ECCS RELAY Black / WhiteGreen / Yellow ECU 42 Black / PinkGreen / Black ECU 41, 51 Orange
42 is the Cam postion Reference Signal41 is the Cam position Signal
They both feed a signal TO the ECU.
Black with white stripe is + off the eccs Relay.
Black is a ground.
That is it. the 95 does not need the 90's red and green wired plug. It is a power for the sensor, and not needed.
the valve covers are not interchangeable, just the plastic inner, and wiring, The coils are exactly the same. One engine is # 7757, and one is 107359, so they are very far apart, one is a feb 90 build date, and one is oct 17, 94.
So now you know, you dont have to get a older engine, and that dee de dee guy in FL who screwed up the girls car, could have done it simple if he had sat back and looked at it, and test fitted, and tried. Piece of cake, Craig.
P.S. This new motor is so clean inside, great history.
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SuperHatch
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Re: SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ?? (craigztoyz)
Just thought I would add to this, more CAS info.
90-93 Cas has two connectors, one 4-pin, the other 3-pin. The 4-pin connector is for the Camshaft Position Sensor, the 3-pin is not power, but actually a sub-Camshaft Position Sensor.
Why two sensors? Redundancy. The ECU ignores the sub-CAS signal until there is a fault in the main CAS signal. The main CAS is an optical type with an LED, Photo Diode, and a wave-forming circuit. The sub-CAS is a much simpler magnetic generator and pickup.
94 CAS sensors still have the CAS and sub-CAS. In 95 the sub-CAS was removed, likely to reduce cost.
You can use a 95 CAS on a 94, or use any 90-93 ECU on a car without a sub-CAS and you won't have any issues. The sub-CAS is not a self diagnostic item and will not throw a code if left disconnected.
90-93 Cas has two connectors, one 4-pin, the other 3-pin. The 4-pin connector is for the Camshaft Position Sensor, the 3-pin is not power, but actually a sub-Camshaft Position Sensor.
Why two sensors? Redundancy. The ECU ignores the sub-CAS signal until there is a fault in the main CAS signal. The main CAS is an optical type with an LED, Photo Diode, and a wave-forming circuit. The sub-CAS is a much simpler magnetic generator and pickup.
94 CAS sensors still have the CAS and sub-CAS. In 95 the sub-CAS was removed, likely to reduce cost.
You can use a 95 CAS on a 94, or use any 90-93 ECU on a car without a sub-CAS and you won't have any issues. The sub-CAS is not a self diagnostic item and will not throw a code if left disconnected.
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Q45tech
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- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Re: SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ?? (SuperHatch)
Sub crank [90 degree signals] were used by ecu in cranking before rpm reached cold idle 1200-1500 rpm so that CAS did not have to rotate 2 rpm to find the #1 TDC wider pulse.
If CAS fails the engine can cruise up to 2500 rpm on 90 degree signals.
Fail safe to avoid sudden failure on highway.
If CAS fails the engine can cruise up to 2500 rpm on 90 degree signals.
Fail safe to avoid sudden failure on highway.
Re: SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ?? (craigztoyz)
Thought you were the expert on these conversions?
At least that's what you said when you charged me almost $300.00 to make a conversion harness for my Q45 - no wonder I had to redo all your work.
So now I understand the reason it took you three months, 25 phone calls, plus three harnesses to get one back that had just five wires modified.
Craig, you ripped me a new one, and this post shows that a year ago you didn't know squat when you said you could make me conversion harness that would be a plug and play. .
I want a refund!!
At least that's what you said when you charged me almost $300.00 to make a conversion harness for my Q45 - no wonder I had to redo all your work.
So now I understand the reason it took you three months, 25 phone calls, plus three harnesses to get one back that had just five wires modified.
Craig, you ripped me a new one, and this post shows that a year ago you didn't know squat when you said you could make me conversion harness that would be a plug and play. .
I want a refund!!
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craigztoyz
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Re: SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ?? (dsagers)
Excuse ME????????????
I sent you 2 complete harnesses, checked with the post office, and they said they were delivered. I told you how to do the work yourself, you wanted to send me one to convert, so I did.
The harness you sent me after I mailed you 2, I clipped the ends, soldered, heatshirinked, and taped.
You never complained, Dave not sure what your problem is, but grow up. If you had a problem, why did you not call me? the calls we had earleir that you are calling 25, were as most of my calls are, talking cars, mods and builds. So being called.
Out of town, on vacation, have not been on Nico for many many months, just checking things out, and found this. immature children are such a pain, no matter how old they are.
My shop specializes in unique engine swaps, we just stopped working on Ferraris, now that we finally have a ferrair dealer, I can spend my time on my hotrods, and custom builds. I have done 3 450Z's, one G45, and am doing a steering conversion to start a Rx7 build. so Please if you have an issue be an adult and use a phone, rather then attempts at slander of an upstanding businessman who is a single father busting butt 20 hrs a day to build amazing to drive toys.If you had called, and sent me the harnesses back, would not have been a problem at all. now that I am online and see this, if really pisses me off.Sincerely Craig
I sent you 2 complete harnesses, checked with the post office, and they said they were delivered. I told you how to do the work yourself, you wanted to send me one to convert, so I did.
The harness you sent me after I mailed you 2, I clipped the ends, soldered, heatshirinked, and taped.
You never complained, Dave not sure what your problem is, but grow up. If you had a problem, why did you not call me? the calls we had earleir that you are calling 25, were as most of my calls are, talking cars, mods and builds. So being called.
Out of town, on vacation, have not been on Nico for many many months, just checking things out, and found this. immature children are such a pain, no matter how old they are.
My shop specializes in unique engine swaps, we just stopped working on Ferraris, now that we finally have a ferrair dealer, I can spend my time on my hotrods, and custom builds. I have done 3 450Z's, one G45, and am doing a steering conversion to start a Rx7 build. so Please if you have an issue be an adult and use a phone, rather then attempts at slander of an upstanding businessman who is a single father busting butt 20 hrs a day to build amazing to drive toys.If you had called, and sent me the harnesses back, would not have been a problem at all. now that I am online and see this, if really pisses me off.Sincerely Craig
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craigztoyz
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Re: SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ?? (craigztoyz)
2nd thing.
I built this harness for you a year ago. You are just now deciding to attempt and slander me? W T F ?
taking alot of patience not to say anything to get me in trouble with the mods, because I hate being accused of anything I have not done.
I sent you a full harness with the pigtail set you wanted, right out of a Q, worked great on car before pull, you said you never got it, so I made another, then shipped it with ups, they dropped it off per their info to me when I checked. You then sent me one, because I was already loosing money on the deal after 2 harness, then you said to send it through the postoffice with teir tracker, so I did, checked back a week later all was good, you said thanx, never heard from you again, till a year later. Uh What? If you;d like to discuss this, Hours are M-f 9-5 CST, if you need the number again my email is [email protected]
I built this harness for you a year ago. You are just now deciding to attempt and slander me? W T F ?
taking alot of patience not to say anything to get me in trouble with the mods, because I hate being accused of anything I have not done.
I sent you a full harness with the pigtail set you wanted, right out of a Q, worked great on car before pull, you said you never got it, so I made another, then shipped it with ups, they dropped it off per their info to me when I checked. You then sent me one, because I was already loosing money on the deal after 2 harness, then you said to send it through the postoffice with teir tracker, so I did, checked back a week later all was good, you said thanx, never heard from you again, till a year later. Uh What? If you;d like to discuss this, Hours are M-f 9-5 CST, if you need the number again my email is [email protected]
Re: SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ?? (craigztoyz)
The
I repeatedly asked for tracking numbers for the first two "lost " harnesses, instead of providing those numbers, you absolutely ignored my request, never even addressed the tracking numbers for the lost packages. To this day you have never sent me any tracking numbers for the lost harnesses.
The harness I ended up sending to you had the MAF plug clipped off, I took pics of, and paid careful attention to the place, angle and method the plug was clipped.
When you returned the harness you stated that you had run the harness on a test vehicle over the weekend.
I also asked you about the MAF plug. When the harness came back, the MAF plug was clipped off exactly the same as when I sent it to you. You said that you had to add a MAF plug for testing, then cut it off again before returning the harness to me.
Comparing before and after left little doubt that you never touched the MAF plug.
Which leads to the next question of how did you test the harness without a MAF plug? I might be wrong, maybe you have a way to wire in a MAF plug without touching the harness, but even the grease over the end of the cut wires was the same.
The question still remains, if you were an expert on the conversion, why were you on the this forum asking how to make a conversion? As I pointed out, your question came conveniently close to the time I paid you to make a conversion harness for me?
Appears that you started the BS when you charged me for work you said you could do. Then you have the lack of good sense to ask a question, on a forum where I am active, about how to make a conversion harness?
Finally, its not slander if it is true. Provide me the tracking numbers for the first two harnesses and explain the MAF plug, or else back off.
The reason you never heard from me again is that you are so full of BS stories that I can't do business with you. I simply gave up and used my time and energy finding another way to make this work.craigztoyz wrote:2nd thing.
I sent you a full harness with the pigtail set you wanted, right out of a Q, worked great on car before pull, you said you never got it, so I made another, then shipped it with ups, they dropped it off per their info to me when I checked. You then sent me one, because I was already loosing money on the deal after 2 harness, then you said to send it through the postoffice with teir tracker, so I did, checked back a week later all was good, you said thanx, never heard from you again, till a year later. Uh What? If you;d like to discuss this, Hours are M-f 9-5 CST, if you need the number again my email is [email protected]
I repeatedly asked for tracking numbers for the first two "lost " harnesses, instead of providing those numbers, you absolutely ignored my request, never even addressed the tracking numbers for the lost packages. To this day you have never sent me any tracking numbers for the lost harnesses.
The harness I ended up sending to you had the MAF plug clipped off, I took pics of, and paid careful attention to the place, angle and method the plug was clipped.
When you returned the harness you stated that you had run the harness on a test vehicle over the weekend.
I also asked you about the MAF plug. When the harness came back, the MAF plug was clipped off exactly the same as when I sent it to you. You said that you had to add a MAF plug for testing, then cut it off again before returning the harness to me.
Comparing before and after left little doubt that you never touched the MAF plug.
Which leads to the next question of how did you test the harness without a MAF plug? I might be wrong, maybe you have a way to wire in a MAF plug without touching the harness, but even the grease over the end of the cut wires was the same.
The question still remains, if you were an expert on the conversion, why were you on the this forum asking how to make a conversion? As I pointed out, your question came conveniently close to the time I paid you to make a conversion harness for me?
Appears that you started the BS when you charged me for work you said you could do. Then you have the lack of good sense to ask a question, on a forum where I am active, about how to make a conversion harness?
Finally, its not slander if it is true. Provide me the tracking numbers for the first two harnesses and explain the MAF plug, or else back off.
Re: SWAPPING 95 Motor into 90 Harness, Problems ?? (dsagers)
Got a angry phone call from Craig today venting his anger with my comments.
Craig, you asked the reason I never called when the harness didn't work.
Craig, after too many stories and too much BS, I cut my losses and walked away from your services. I could keep calling you and watching more promised commitments pass without anything out of you or your shop, except another "I sent that to you last week."
If you would not have hung up on me, today, I was trying to offer that if you will provide the tracking number or Post Office receipt for the first two lost packages, then I'll admit that you probably did make the first two harnesses.
As it stands now, I do not believe you made the first two harnesses for me, and the "package lost in the mail" is a story because you either didn't know how to make the conversion harness or you spent you time doing other work.
Finally, just because you are from Texas, does give me additional reason to trust you and take your word as truth. Wish being from Texas gave you that special honor, but it doesn't.
So four items remain to be answered.
One, why were you asking how to make a conversion harness about the same time you charged me for doing the work?
Two, where is the postal receipt for the first shipment? I realize you didn't use a tracking number, but the post office still gives receipts when you mail a package. It will show the weight and destination zip code.
Third, where is the UPS tracking number for the second harness?
Fourth, on the harnesses I sent to you, the cut off MAF plug was never touched. Yet you gave me absolute assurances that you had tested the harness on a car, and said that you had installed a MAF plug on the harness for testing, but clipped your plug off before sending the harness out.
As I explained above, a before and after comparison strongly indicates that the cut on the third harness was never touched, the grease covering the ends of the wires was the same as in the pic I took before I sent you the harness.
Call me names, threaten to sue, explain that you are from Texas - none of that works, I'm just asking for a couple of receipts to prove you sent the first two harnesses.
Modified by dsagers at 2:18 PM 8/20/2009
Craig, you asked the reason I never called when the harness didn't work.
Craig, after too many stories and too much BS, I cut my losses and walked away from your services. I could keep calling you and watching more promised commitments pass without anything out of you or your shop, except another "I sent that to you last week."
If you would not have hung up on me, today, I was trying to offer that if you will provide the tracking number or Post Office receipt for the first two lost packages, then I'll admit that you probably did make the first two harnesses.
As it stands now, I do not believe you made the first two harnesses for me, and the "package lost in the mail" is a story because you either didn't know how to make the conversion harness or you spent you time doing other work.
Finally, just because you are from Texas, does give me additional reason to trust you and take your word as truth. Wish being from Texas gave you that special honor, but it doesn't.
So four items remain to be answered.
One, why were you asking how to make a conversion harness about the same time you charged me for doing the work?
Two, where is the postal receipt for the first shipment? I realize you didn't use a tracking number, but the post office still gives receipts when you mail a package. It will show the weight and destination zip code.
Third, where is the UPS tracking number for the second harness?
Fourth, on the harnesses I sent to you, the cut off MAF plug was never touched. Yet you gave me absolute assurances that you had tested the harness on a car, and said that you had installed a MAF plug on the harness for testing, but clipped your plug off before sending the harness out.
As I explained above, a before and after comparison strongly indicates that the cut on the third harness was never touched, the grease covering the ends of the wires was the same as in the pic I took before I sent you the harness.
Call me names, threaten to sue, explain that you are from Texas - none of that works, I'm just asking for a couple of receipts to prove you sent the first two harnesses.
Modified by dsagers at 2:18 PM 8/20/2009