Suspension / Lift Advice

[eschind]

Good Morning,
I've got a 2000 Pathfinder with 165K miles on it. When we're loaded down for camping, the rear end squats quite a bit. I'm in need of some new tires, and am going to lift the truck about 2" to clear 31" tires.

I'm looking at a spacer lift and replacing the coils, but want to make sure I address the squat issue. Old Man Emu has some nice aftermarket coils, but since we take the Pathfinder all over the continent (just got back from a 5K mile trip), I don't want stiffen the ride to much.

Wondering what people have done to reduce the amount of rear squat when the Pathfinder is loaded, and what type of lift has worked out while still retaining the 'stock' ride quality.

Thanks,
Erik

[atraudes]

Hey Erik, welcome to Nico!

If you're looking at having a significant load more often than not, then medium or heavy-duty coils will do the trick and keep the ride at the proper height. However, if you'd like to keep the ride nice during the week but still haul stuff around on the weekends, then airbags are probably the preferred route. A lot of members have used and had good luck with the AirLift 1000. It lets you adjust the pressure in them to raise and stiffen the ride when you're hauling. Take a look and see if it sounds like what you're looking for!

The only thing I'm uncertain of is if the bags would maintain your 2" lift. Maybe post in the linked thread to see if anyone there has experience with that. I'm guessing if you use a spacer lift it won't be an issue.

For more general lift-related questions, check out the threads I link to in this post.

Good luck!

[Hawairish]

The OMEs will likely be the best of all worlds for you...lift, good ride quality, load handling. OME only offers a MD rear coil. These work out very well for hauling, ride quality is fine without load. These will allow clearance for 31's. But really, ride quality is more shock dependent than spring dependent.

The Airlift 1000 may provide some lift, but that is not the intention. It is meant to reduce sag, but also improve ride quality, which can be dialed-in. A properly installed bag only makes contact on the sides of the spring (per a discussion I recently had with Airlift...I just installed them on a buddy's truck over the weekend). It essentially works by slowing compression/extension in the areas of the spring where the bag sits, and does so by inflating into the coils.

Spacers will retain all stock ride and load characteristics and provide a static amount of lift.

How I know: I run 31's on OMEs and spacers. I run about 4" of lift, and have hauled trailers and loaded up the cargo area with gear and passengers.

[Silverhorn]

I just upgraded to a 2" lift from 4x4 parts. I haven't finished and taken out for a test drive yet, but after taking off the stock springs I don't see how anyone would ever want to use those on a "truck". They are pretty limp, sure I had lots of miles on my Qx4 (but I could compress my rear springs with my hands). I do a lot of towing/hauling, and I would never put anything like that back on again. I suggest you get rid of them stock springs asap. I can't speak to the ride quality yet, but maybe it was my old suspension, but it was too loose b4.

[eschind]

Silverhorn - Did you stick with the stock struts/shocks? Are the springs OME?

Hawairish - how much lift did the medium OME provide?

Thanks for the input - extremely helpful.

[Silverhorn]

Nope, I got the full 2" kit. Rancho struts, 2" +200lb coil springs, Bilstein shocks in the rear with the +2" +200lb springs in the back. No spacers, since that will neither increase your capacity or stiffen so you can haul better. Just a complete suspension swap.

[Hawairish]

The AC (4x4parts.com) springs tend to ride a little firmer than OMEs, from what I understand. Never tried personally, but my experience with OME has been excellent. Had to replace the rear OME shocks with something longer, and change in ride quality suffered a little (to my point earlier, the shock is the primary factor in ride quality). Plenty of discussions about it at NPORA.

OME gives very moderate numbers for lift (15mm/20mm). Not sure the exact amount of lift on mine...bought the truck used with them already installed. I estimate a little under an inch up front, about 1.5" in rear. They have about 25K mi on them, and after a recent comparison to a buddy who just bought new ones a few months ago and has the same suspension setup as me, they don't seem to have sagged at all. I completed a move earlier in the year that required about 400 mi of towing a loaded trailer...ride quality was flawless and sag-free (with loaded cargo area, too).

Here was the stance with just OMEs and 31":

[eschind]

Thanks Hawairish. So that is just with the medium duty OME coils, no spacers? Nice looking truck...

[Hawairish]

Thanks. Yes, medium front and rear, no spacers. There's a light, medium, and heavy duty option for the front...same spring rates, just different unsprung lengths. Medium is only option for rear.

Current stance with 3" strut spacers and 2" rear spacers, same tires, same OMEs:

[604-Allstar]

Hi,

Just in the last few months i completely replaced all my major suspension components as the truck has 250k km on it. I take my truck off road hunting but it's also my daily driver and I use my car for work so I didn't want anything too aggressive. Over all im very happy with the setup and I don't find it too aggressive at all.

I would highly recommend doing the shocks/Struts at the same if they haven't been changed before as you are already taking everything out and I was shocked how much of a difference there was between the new and the old parts.

The only thing I would do differently next time around would be to get spacers for the front if you want the truck to sit level. I thought if I got the OME HD for the front and the MD for the back then it would help keep the nose higher but it did not. There is a very noticeable dip in the front of the truck compared to the rear. If you want the truck to sit level, you NEED spacers in the front.

My setup
-Front Struts
KYB GR-2/Excel G

-Rear Shocks
Bilstein 5100

-Front Springs
OME HD Springs

- Rear Springs
OME MD Springs

-OEM strut mounts and bearings
-Upper and Lower Trailing Arm
- AirLift 1000

[eschind]

Thanks 604-Allstar. My struts and shocks were replaced not too long ago before considering a lift, so I'd like to get some more mileage out of them before replacing them. What size spacer would you recommend for the front? MD up front sounds like it will give my wife a more pleasant ride - she doesn't want it to remind her of my '82 CJ.

[fastpakr]

Are you still running the stock wheels with the taller springs and/or spacers? I don't know the various factory wheel options so I wasn't sure if those were original or not. 4x4Parts has a reference on their site to using 3.75" negative backspacing with the lift, but I'd love to avoid replacing the wheels if possible.

[Hawairish]

Strut spacers won't change ride quality either. You can keep your current strut/coil. However, I would not exceed 2" of total lift up front, otherwise you'll likely go through your CVs quicker (unless you've got manual hubs). So if you get OMEs, a 1" spacer might be about it (in my first pic, it was actually OME + a .5" spacer, now that I think about it). The way around this restriction is a subframe-drop (SFD).

If you run any spacer, you'll need to disassemble the strut assembly to replace the bolts in the upper mount with something longer.

Stock wheels are fine. I run a 1/4" wheel spacer on stock wheels. Just need to be mindful of the bottom of the spring perch on the strut. As you get bigger tires, then you need to be concerned about moving the wheel out because it will hit the perch (and likely rub elsewhere).

[fastpakr]

I'd be trying to fit 31's most likely. Nothing bigger than that as it's really just a daily driver. I'm really just trying to fix a bottoming out issue but was considering a small lift in the process. Thanks for the info.

[Hawairish]

I'd be trying to fit 31's most likely. Nothing bigger than that as it's really just a daily driver. I'm really just trying to fix a bottoming out issue but was considering a small lift in the process. Thanks for the info.

Then you'll want lift springs like OME or AC. You can get Moog OE's, just to freshen things up for a bit, but it won't improve any load-carrying. How are your shocks?

[fastpakr]

Shocks are new a couple of months ago. I'm in the middle of swapping a ball joint and half shaft right now. I'll probably order the trailing arm bushing and bolt kit next month and get to new medium duty springs and bump stops after that.

[Hawairish]

Cool, sounds like you've got a plan.

[fastpakr]

Quick follow up now that I've replaced the rear springs and the new fronts are on the way... Do you have a recommendation for wheel spacers, and do you think that 255/75r17's (roughly 32x10.5) would clear once they're spaced out? Wheeling is likely to be minimal so I'm mostly concerned about turning to full lock on road rather than with the suspension flexed.

Edit... it looks like I can get the Mr. Gasket 2376 1/4" spacers for about $20. Adequate?

[Hawairish]

I have 1/4" spacers (on when I bought it) that make things look even front-to-rear, but there was still some rubbing when full-locked and reversing on 31" with just OMEs (it was hitting my mud flaps). But that was all 255/75/17 is a 32", so I would expect some rubbing, yes.

A 1" spacer might prevent rubbing for you on the main points (front wheel liner, front mud flaps if you have them, and strut spring perch), but hard to say until it's fitted. Also depends on the backspacing of your wheels. A lot of guys can get away with trimming the liners, or taking a heat gun to them to reshape. The spring perch is the bigger concern...with a taller tire, you must move the wheel outward at some point. I believe 32" would be that case.

As for spacers in general, the shorter spacers (1/4") don't tend to balance too well. The thicker spacers (>1") are usually a little better in terms of balance. Anything in between is hard to find...it's too thick for stock wheel studs, and too short for an adapter style. Generally speaking, a wheel with the right amount of backspacing is better than both, but is usually the more expensive option.

[fueler]

I've had OME for 6 years now. HD in front, medium in back. The lift was decent for about a year but it settles down. Ride quality is still excellent.

I recommend OME & spacers, or 4x4parts 2" coils. The OME by themselves will drop to factory height, not enough clearance for good camping/wheeling.

[fastpakr]

Thanks to both of you for the insight. Rather than spend more money now, I'll keep the lift in the long term plans to do right before I'm due for tires again. Two sets of springs, rear bushings, and a few other smaller things have basically wiped out the maintenance budget for several months anyway.