Hello ladies, gentlemen.
I have a few questions for M owners. My curiosity is a continuation of the 06+ V8 oil consumption issues, but this is open to anyone on the forum really. I was born with the gift of words, but I'll try to keep it short.
I know features, mileage, cosmetic condition, among other factors will come into play here. There are no wrong answers, I've just been wondering about what other owners think .
1. What do you drive?
2. At your current mileage, if your engine got damaged, would you get rid of the car or try to fix it?
3. If you chose to sell it, what do you think a fair price should be?
4. If you choose to fix it, can you/ do you want to do it yourself?
5. If you pay someone to do it, what is the total you'd like to spend? Parts + labor or the plain total is fine.
6. Do you have any preferences for a used engine, rebuilt engine, brand new? Or does it not matter as long as it drives?
SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
Re: SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
I own a few vehicles, and I would treat each differently, so to keep apples to apples, here are my thoughts to your questions concerning my 06 Infiniti M35x, 125k miles, nice condition throughout, only problem currently is ABS/slip lights.
I am 60 years old, have been certified in all ASE automotive & heavy truck disciplines, many GM, Ford and Coach certificates of training though out my 43 year career.
have been an automotive & public transportation bus mechanic/supervisor all my life.
I do all my own work on all my vehicles, and have done engine/transmission rebuilds throughout the years on the job & off. At 60, those days are over. The only project I am taking on now is a 79' HD Electra Glide rebuild.
1). 06 M35x never hit, no rust, 100% Orig. paint, no dents/dings, no bumper cover scuffs
2). Only repair to engine I would take on is something repairable via valve cover or engine oil pan removal. I would not pull engine or heads on the car.
3). I would try to sell at at 1/2 the current wholesale price, just parting out the car would bring in good money, but no time for that!
4). See answer #2
5). One fourth to one half of the car's total value if I were going to have someone repair it, I do not think that would be a budget that would be probable. I would carefully explore M's for sale by private owners, I see a few low mileage gems out there on occasion going for reasonable money!
6). Used is out of the question. Many reputable used parts recyclers will guarantee a used engine they sell you...at the expense of your labor & labor costs and return!
It is hard to justify the cost of new (expense vs value of vehicle), so rebuilt is a sweet spot, but costs can vary wildly here as well, it could take the repair beyond the worth of the vehicle!
Again, this is me at this stage of my life.
However, back in 1977, I bought a beat up, bondo laden 1967 Cadillac Eldorado for $350.00.
It blew smoke out the exhaust. I rented a cherry picker, took out & tore down the engine, had block honed, I installed rings, bearings, I had the heads rebuilt, yada, yada, spent about $700 on it in parts & machine shop costs. In the end, it was still a $350.00 POS!
For 1.5k, I could have bough a nice used Eldorado of the same vintage that needed nothing!
I am 60 years old, have been certified in all ASE automotive & heavy truck disciplines, many GM, Ford and Coach certificates of training though out my 43 year career.
have been an automotive & public transportation bus mechanic/supervisor all my life.
I do all my own work on all my vehicles, and have done engine/transmission rebuilds throughout the years on the job & off. At 60, those days are over. The only project I am taking on now is a 79' HD Electra Glide rebuild.
1). 06 M35x never hit, no rust, 100% Orig. paint, no dents/dings, no bumper cover scuffs
2). Only repair to engine I would take on is something repairable via valve cover or engine oil pan removal. I would not pull engine or heads on the car.
3). I would try to sell at at 1/2 the current wholesale price, just parting out the car would bring in good money, but no time for that!
4). See answer #2
5). One fourth to one half of the car's total value if I were going to have someone repair it, I do not think that would be a budget that would be probable. I would carefully explore M's for sale by private owners, I see a few low mileage gems out there on occasion going for reasonable money!
6). Used is out of the question. Many reputable used parts recyclers will guarantee a used engine they sell you...at the expense of your labor & labor costs and return!
It is hard to justify the cost of new (expense vs value of vehicle), so rebuilt is a sweet spot, but costs can vary wildly here as well, it could take the repair beyond the worth of the vehicle!
Again, this is me at this stage of my life.
However, back in 1977, I bought a beat up, bondo laden 1967 Cadillac Eldorado for $350.00.
It blew smoke out the exhaust. I rented a cherry picker, took out & tore down the engine, had block honed, I installed rings, bearings, I had the heads rebuilt, yada, yada, spent about $700 on it in parts & machine shop costs. In the end, it was still a $350.00 POS!
For 1.5k, I could have bough a nice used Eldorado of the same vintage that needed nothing!
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Larz
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Re: SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
Being British, I have been blessed with posh conversation skills, LOL.
First, I have to say that I have never thought about replacing my engine. However, with 95,000 miles it could happen.
My driving can easily be described as 'spirited' but not reckless. For instance, I do NOT make jack rabbit starts from traffic signals, or drive on a racing track. But if I'm honest, on the driving habit scale, I lean closer to the aggressive rather than the pensioner end of the scale. If I am on the motorway and you are driving in front pf me at a speed I deem to be 'too slow', I will come round your left with a decisive passing speed, but would never cut back in front of you without first leaving you an appropriate amount of free space.
My care gets 'driven' but it also gets pampered with early oil-filter changes and all recommended maintenance performed solely at the dealer. No corner shops or Uncle Joe shops for my car. I also keep the interior, exterior, and even the engine / trunk compartments in pristine condition.
Having said all that, here is my response:
1) 2009 M35, moonlight white tri-coat / wheat and wood interior - all available options / packages including rear fold down screen theater, reclining and temp controlled rear seats, rear arm rest with audio, temp, and rear shade controls.
2) My car has over 95,000 miles and I would NOT automatically junk it if the engine goes titz-up
3) I doubt I would sell it without a working engine. I would fix it, then decide if I want to keep it.
4) My first place for repair is always the dealer. I am not qualified or tooled to replace or repair an engine.
5 & 6) The cost of an entire new OEM engine begins at about $12,000 (no labor) at InfinitiPartsOnline. That is a bit steep. I reckon I would have my service guy at my dealer do a search for used engines and go that route. I don't fancy replacing my engine with another that has more than 50,000 miles on it. If no used engine with reasonable mileage can be found, I would buy another new engine, but it will take loads of time for me to get my head around that high a price. After investing more than $12,000 into this car, I would definitely keep it. After replacing the engine, I would have no way too trade or sell and still make a profit, and because the rest of my car is in perfect condition, it only makes sense to keep it. Even if the engine needed partial repair or rebuild, I would do it and keep the car.
First, I have to say that I have never thought about replacing my engine. However, with 95,000 miles it could happen.
My driving can easily be described as 'spirited' but not reckless. For instance, I do NOT make jack rabbit starts from traffic signals, or drive on a racing track. But if I'm honest, on the driving habit scale, I lean closer to the aggressive rather than the pensioner end of the scale. If I am on the motorway and you are driving in front pf me at a speed I deem to be 'too slow', I will come round your left with a decisive passing speed, but would never cut back in front of you without first leaving you an appropriate amount of free space.
My care gets 'driven' but it also gets pampered with early oil-filter changes and all recommended maintenance performed solely at the dealer. No corner shops or Uncle Joe shops for my car. I also keep the interior, exterior, and even the engine / trunk compartments in pristine condition.
Having said all that, here is my response:
1) 2009 M35, moonlight white tri-coat / wheat and wood interior - all available options / packages including rear fold down screen theater, reclining and temp controlled rear seats, rear arm rest with audio, temp, and rear shade controls.
2) My car has over 95,000 miles and I would NOT automatically junk it if the engine goes titz-up
3) I doubt I would sell it without a working engine. I would fix it, then decide if I want to keep it.
4) My first place for repair is always the dealer. I am not qualified or tooled to replace or repair an engine.
5 & 6) The cost of an entire new OEM engine begins at about $12,000 (no labor) at InfinitiPartsOnline. That is a bit steep. I reckon I would have my service guy at my dealer do a search for used engines and go that route. I don't fancy replacing my engine with another that has more than 50,000 miles on it. If no used engine with reasonable mileage can be found, I would buy another new engine, but it will take loads of time for me to get my head around that high a price. After investing more than $12,000 into this car, I would definitely keep it. After replacing the engine, I would have no way too trade or sell and still make a profit, and because the rest of my car is in perfect condition, it only makes sense to keep it. Even if the engine needed partial repair or rebuild, I would do it and keep the car.
Re: SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
Thank you both for your contribution.
Steve_c, you're leaning more towards the sell-not-repair side. Of course the person that buys the car then has to figure out what they have in resources to fix it.
Larz, you seem to favor keeping the car, or more accurately fixing the car first. Depending on which sort of replacement engine you get + where you get it done, the replacement costs could topple the "bluebook value".
I have a love - hate relationship with book values btw.
There is a deeper reason for my survey - I want to utilize my mechanical abilities a little more in the way of an auto shop. The idea is to run an Infiniti repair gig, maybe focused on M45 first, then to all Ms, then maybe all Infiniti. I hate to brag, but I rarely get stumped when it comes to troubleshooting vehicles in general and I have helped family and friends sort out issues that professionals either couldn't fix or would charge too much to diagnose... with minimal damage to their pockets from me. I actually consult for a guy who runs a car repair business.
Here's the clincher: I love cars and helping people all day; but like everything else I get into, I have to do a business case first.
What will I get out of this venture? I have ideas on how to fix the (maybe not as rampant as I thought) issues of damaged V8 engines rather cheaply than current options. However, how many people will trust some random non-ASE certified dude in Illinois to get their cars back on the road?
Asking prices are dropping to the $6k range for these vehicles at the 150,000 mile range in running condition and average cosmetics depending on location etc.
If I chose to go at it on a buy-to-fix-n-flip basis, I strongly prefer to not have to pay a premium for it.
I don't know how lofty the idea is, but the goal is to run an honest operation churning out cars in tip top mechanical shape - all maintenance addressed so the drivetrain runs smoothly and suspension and brakes freshened etc. I don't do bodywork, but I have connections if need be.
... and that is why I'm asking these questions to gauge the attitudes of my potential customer base.
Steve_c, you're leaning more towards the sell-not-repair side. Of course the person that buys the car then has to figure out what they have in resources to fix it.
Larz, you seem to favor keeping the car, or more accurately fixing the car first. Depending on which sort of replacement engine you get + where you get it done, the replacement costs could topple the "bluebook value".
I have a love - hate relationship with book values btw.
There is a deeper reason for my survey - I want to utilize my mechanical abilities a little more in the way of an auto shop. The idea is to run an Infiniti repair gig, maybe focused on M45 first, then to all Ms, then maybe all Infiniti. I hate to brag, but I rarely get stumped when it comes to troubleshooting vehicles in general and I have helped family and friends sort out issues that professionals either couldn't fix or would charge too much to diagnose... with minimal damage to their pockets from me. I actually consult for a guy who runs a car repair business.
Here's the clincher: I love cars and helping people all day; but like everything else I get into, I have to do a business case first.
What will I get out of this venture? I have ideas on how to fix the (maybe not as rampant as I thought) issues of damaged V8 engines rather cheaply than current options. However, how many people will trust some random non-ASE certified dude in Illinois to get their cars back on the road?
Asking prices are dropping to the $6k range for these vehicles at the 150,000 mile range in running condition and average cosmetics depending on location etc.
If I chose to go at it on a buy-to-fix-n-flip basis, I strongly prefer to not have to pay a premium for it.
I don't know how lofty the idea is, but the goal is to run an honest operation churning out cars in tip top mechanical shape - all maintenance addressed so the drivetrain runs smoothly and suspension and brakes freshened etc. I don't do bodywork, but I have connections if need be.
... and that is why I'm asking these questions to gauge the attitudes of my potential customer base.
-
Larz
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Re: SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
Ed, I think you're on to something there. Lots of people make lots of money flipping houses, etc. Why not cars? As car makers move away from V8 engines I reckon there could be a void of sorts that V8 lovers will fall into. That's where you come in.
Re: SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
I am going to play devil's advocate for this thread....Larz wrote: Ed, I think you're on to something there. Lots of people make lots of money flipping houses, etc. Why not cars? As car makers move away from V8 engines I reckon there could be a void of sorts that V8 lovers will fall into. That's where you come in.
No disputing your ability EdBwoy.....I agree with you & Larz, with your talent you could be a premier M45 indy repair guru.
You read both Larz & I correctly, I would rather dump the vehicle at a loss, understanding that someone like yourself could buy it, repair, & turn a profit: or someone would buy it & turn to you for the repair!
The challenge I see is how to win over folks like Larz.
Many people rely on Dealer service for their repairs, others have honed in and use a good indy mechanic. How do you acquire & pull those folks away from their trusted dealerships into your shop?
Also, honing in on Infiniti corners you into a small niche. Local customers would be few, these cars did not sell in huge volumes. Most brand niche Indy's I see in my travels specialize in one specific brand, like BMW, Audi, or MB, but they accept all Euro/German marques, and I also see toyotas & hondas et al in these shops too!
What I am saying is, I would think you would need to expand service to other makes to keep busy. The person you turn away because you will not put a used engine into his 1999 Honda Accord, will not be coming back. Can you afford to pick & choose?
I am thinking, if I wanted to do what you are planning, I would test the waters.
I would go and buy an M45 at a price you can repair & make a profit on, then flip it.
My objectives/conclusions I am seeking would be:
1). Is their a market for M's locally?
2). could I reach out & sell it nationally via E-bay?
My thoughts are that if you could locally flip Infiniti's, you could inform the buyer at the point of sale that you are a full service repair tech for the car you sell as well!
BTW, Go for a few ASE Certifications. Start off with the areas you are strongest in, and progress from that point. You can find sample ASE test online.
Re: SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
Thanks again guys. And Steve, I definitely don't take lightly the advice of someone who has extensive experience in the industry.
First thing is that this is going to be sort of a hobby. I have no current plans to quit my regular M-F career. I want to do this on weekends and even then, just select ones as I travel for my job occasionally.
I have actually done this already. I bought the M45 from a member here, fixed it up, drove it for a while, sold it at a bargain and still slept happy. I'm still friends with both seller and buyer and that's the kind of attitude I want to carry along.
You are right. The market does play a big role. In the St. Louis area, I wouldn't say the market is good at all. In fact all the M45s I have owned were bought from out of state. I see a few in bad shape asking for decent money, but those in good shape asking for way too much. I want to slide in the sweet spot of premium condition but modest prices.
Selling on eBay will have its challenges as now I'm sharing my lunch money with a lot more people. I get the vibe that people on Craigslist are looking to get things dirt cheap and on eBay, they just want to get it cheaper than dealership prices without the hassle of driving around for a whole weekend kissing frogs
I keep an eye on eBay and I think if/when I gain Magnus Walker status I can start getting fair prices off national sales and maybe through Autotrader too. Otherwise, I'll still target a 5-hour radius from STL through whatever medium. Ain't nothing that price can't fix, as they say. For the right value, people are generally willing to travel
It is a valid point that if I need to eat from this business I will need to open my doors to all brands. And the truth is that if I were to "specialize" then it would be even more sound business advice to focus on 4 cylinder Honda Accords. An engine replacement will be quicker, probably cheaper to obtain due to the sheer numbers sold, and also easier to sell due to brand perceptions.
In a weird way, I am saying I want to work, but not become encumbered by the search for money. I want to work on Infiniti because I like it. For family and friends, I'll help with whatever they drive.
I used to do this to Nissan Maxima and Infiniti i30/i35. I had a little money and a lot of time while in school, and a lot of space too. These days, I can't say I have a lot of money, but I definitely don't have the time I used to. It also stopped because the equation of buying price + cost to fix + potential selling price wasn't adding up to be that attractive for me. Well, I also got fancier in my tastes
and stopped dealing with Maximas right after I put a manual transmission into an i35.
There are a lot more reasons for my choosing to not go full-commercial right from the start, but I promised to try to keep this brief, right?
Keep the feedback coming. This is my market research.
I have a daughter and as much as I hate to disappear every weekend looking to make an extra $300, I absolutely abhor the idea of taking time away from family to lose money.
First thing is that this is going to be sort of a hobby. I have no current plans to quit my regular M-F career. I want to do this on weekends and even then, just select ones as I travel for my job occasionally.
I have actually done this already. I bought the M45 from a member here, fixed it up, drove it for a while, sold it at a bargain and still slept happy. I'm still friends with both seller and buyer and that's the kind of attitude I want to carry along.
You are right. The market does play a big role. In the St. Louis area, I wouldn't say the market is good at all. In fact all the M45s I have owned were bought from out of state. I see a few in bad shape asking for decent money, but those in good shape asking for way too much. I want to slide in the sweet spot of premium condition but modest prices.
Selling on eBay will have its challenges as now I'm sharing my lunch money with a lot more people. I get the vibe that people on Craigslist are looking to get things dirt cheap and on eBay, they just want to get it cheaper than dealership prices without the hassle of driving around for a whole weekend kissing frogs
I keep an eye on eBay and I think if/when I gain Magnus Walker status I can start getting fair prices off national sales and maybe through Autotrader too. Otherwise, I'll still target a 5-hour radius from STL through whatever medium. Ain't nothing that price can't fix, as they say. For the right value, people are generally willing to travel
It is a valid point that if I need to eat from this business I will need to open my doors to all brands. And the truth is that if I were to "specialize" then it would be even more sound business advice to focus on 4 cylinder Honda Accords. An engine replacement will be quicker, probably cheaper to obtain due to the sheer numbers sold, and also easier to sell due to brand perceptions.
In a weird way, I am saying I want to work, but not become encumbered by the search for money. I want to work on Infiniti because I like it. For family and friends, I'll help with whatever they drive.
I used to do this to Nissan Maxima and Infiniti i30/i35. I had a little money and a lot of time while in school, and a lot of space too. These days, I can't say I have a lot of money, but I definitely don't have the time I used to. It also stopped because the equation of buying price + cost to fix + potential selling price wasn't adding up to be that attractive for me. Well, I also got fancier in my tastes
and stopped dealing with Maximas right after I put a manual transmission into an i35.There are a lot more reasons for my choosing to not go full-commercial right from the start, but I promised to try to keep this brief, right?
Keep the feedback coming. This is my market research.
I have a daughter and as much as I hate to disappear every weekend looking to make an extra $300, I absolutely abhor the idea of taking time away from family to lose money.
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cruzad3r
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- Location: CT
Re: SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
1. What do you drive? 06 m35x
2. At your current mileage, if your engine got damaged, would you get rid of the car or try to fix it? my old engine has about 130K miles and it was drinking close to a quart of oil every 100-200 miles. i opt to replace it with another used engine with about 70K miles
3. If you chose to sell it, what do you think a fair price should be? it doesn't worth the money or effort to sell the car because of all the work that i've put into it
4. If you choose to fix it, can you/ do you want to do it yourself? replacing an engine is not a fun or easy task, i wouldn't do it myself unless i have access to a lift and all the tools along with a good set of instructions
5. If you pay someone to do it, what is the total you'd like to spend? Parts + labor or the plain total is fine. -> engine was about 1400 that included tax, shipping and core charge. i sourced this on car-part dot com. labor was around 2 grands, other accessories like cat converters, o2 sensors were another 400. so all in was about 3.6k
6. Do you have any preferences for a used engine, rebuilt engine, brand new? Or does it not matter as long as it drives? - at this stage, a used low miles engine that is 1grand or less is ideal. a rebuilt engine is around 2.5k (if memory serves me) last time i checked on ebay. there is no brand new engine that i could find nor I want to spend money on a brand new engine.
PS- used engine will not guarantee that it's a good engine so it's all about luck. to be safe, you can buy warranty. my current one has developed some oil consumption condition. i am now using oil additives and thicker weight to cure the problem and to go for another 50K miles. if it doesn't last that long, i will donate or toss it; maybe let it go for dirt cheap (who knows)
2. At your current mileage, if your engine got damaged, would you get rid of the car or try to fix it? my old engine has about 130K miles and it was drinking close to a quart of oil every 100-200 miles. i opt to replace it with another used engine with about 70K miles
3. If you chose to sell it, what do you think a fair price should be? it doesn't worth the money or effort to sell the car because of all the work that i've put into it
4. If you choose to fix it, can you/ do you want to do it yourself? replacing an engine is not a fun or easy task, i wouldn't do it myself unless i have access to a lift and all the tools along with a good set of instructions
5. If you pay someone to do it, what is the total you'd like to spend? Parts + labor or the plain total is fine. -> engine was about 1400 that included tax, shipping and core charge. i sourced this on car-part dot com. labor was around 2 grands, other accessories like cat converters, o2 sensors were another 400. so all in was about 3.6k
6. Do you have any preferences for a used engine, rebuilt engine, brand new? Or does it not matter as long as it drives? - at this stage, a used low miles engine that is 1grand or less is ideal. a rebuilt engine is around 2.5k (if memory serves me) last time i checked on ebay. there is no brand new engine that i could find nor I want to spend money on a brand new engine.
PS- used engine will not guarantee that it's a good engine so it's all about luck. to be safe, you can buy warranty. my current one has developed some oil consumption condition. i am now using oil additives and thicker weight to cure the problem and to go for another 50K miles. if it doesn't last that long, i will donate or toss it; maybe let it go for dirt cheap (who knows)
Re: SURVEY: Your engine is toast, would you fix it? How much should it cost?
Or donate it to this guy near St. Louis, MO. For science
In all seriousness, I hope nothing bad happens to your vehicle.
... and thank you for posting cruzad3r. Nice to have some costs to compare. In my consideration, I have been targeting way below the $2,000 labor charges on the drivetrain work. The parts cost will likely be the same, with most being used and tested engines (unless someone sprung for a rebuilt unit).