Supercharger idea

[R32]

I was thinking. To have a supercharger and a turbo setup.So the supercharger shuts off when the turbo is ready. Is this possable

[Megaseth]

Lancia beat you to if with the Dealta S4. its not cheap and definately not easy. I think Greddy made a manifold for the 3s-gte, or mabye it was teh 4age, but that was a long time ago and it wasnt cheap, like $6 if you can find one. dont bother unless you have lots of money and time.

[themadscientist]

It was HKS, twin charger kit to put a turbo on a4AGZE supercharger MR2. It was a piping nightmare.

[Megaseth]

bam, thats right. i found a link to the Dealta S4's piping and its soo crazy i wouldnt even want to attempt it.

[nametakennow]

Haha, EXACTLY the reaction I expected. It really is an amazing concept, just a complete pain in the *** to pull off.

[AZhitman]

You guys rock.

So much info here it boggles the mind.

[whiterps13]

the meguiers integra is triple charged. nitrous, supercharged, and turbocharged. its such a trick idea, blast off the line with the supercharger while the turbo is spooling, hit turbo, then hit n2o. thats like a car guys wet dream...

[Megaseth]

then again, meguiers has the money to pay some company to build their show cars and then slap their name on it.

[Nismo_Freak]

The blower really won't do much on the top end because it's going to be geared to provide instant boost down low.

[Megaseth]

that was the whole idea of both. the S4 had this bypass valve that opened and basically went around the SC at higher rpms. thats when the turbo spooled up. lemme find that link and it explains how they did it.

[Megaseth]

here it is, from the site:

While its 4WD system was not as advanced as Peugeot 205T16's (which had variable torque split between front and rear axles), its engine was by far advancer. As I know, it was the only car ever employed turbocharger and supercharger simultaneously.

Turbocharger is generally regarded as the most efficient means of forced induction, but it requires higher rev (hence a lot of exhaust gas) to operate. The result is poor low-speed power and the presense of turbo lag. On the contrary, supercharger performs strongly and instantly right from idle, but it is rahter inefficient in high rpm. For a rally car, a flat torque curve over a wide range of rpm is always very crucial, since rally car has to brake to very slow in tight corners and then accelerate to near top speed in 10 seconds. Therefore Lancia spent a lot money with Abarth to develop a system combining both turbocharger and supercharger to get a perfect output. It employed twin intercoolers, one for the turbo and one for the supercharger. The supercharger worked at low speed. Once the turbo cut in, a bypass valve relieved the pressure from the supercharger so that energy efficiency was be lifted.

This system was not only complex, but also faced great difficulties during development. The biggest problem was the transition between supercharging and turbocharging, since a short zero-boost period existed. However, after further developement, this problem was eventually solved.

As a result, the 1.8-litre engine had an outstanding power of 250 hp and a healthy 214 lbft of torque, while the rally car had at least 470 hp and 333 lbft.

[Mr1der]

there was an MR2 in one of those supercar shootouts that was twincharged and on the gas, pretty bad machine...

there was also a twin engine turbo Tiburon running on methanol that would do 10's and streetable.

it still gives me nightmares...

[themadscientist]

no the coolest thing about the tirburon was the completelyseperate drivetrain for each motor, he was doing power donut in one spot by sticking one engine in drive and the other in reverse!

[nametakennow]

Did you see the marks from that burnout/donut... not sure what it was? F-in crazy! I loved that issue, but I love EVERY USCC issue!

[dr!ft]

Here's a few that have done the Twincharger system right. Apparantly, they're the only four in the US...

*Ken Tokowitz's 88 (350bhp, 11.77 @ 118, 0-60 4.7 sec)*Steeve Neese's 88 (est. 400hp w/ race gas)*Mike Carwin's 85 (est 275rwhp 15psi, 12.9)*J. Monzon's 88

Steve Neese currently has his setup at: Intake -> Turbo -> Throttle -> SC -> IC -> Intake without a SC bypass. Still all four don't run too smooth and need constant tuning. Seems like a fun little project, eh?

[nametakennow]

Think if you combined that with the variable-diameter piping concept going around... wow. The car would spool incredibly fast and push gobs of boost in no time. Drool... Oh, and I noticed someone saying nitrous as a third charge. It's not really a charger or FI, it is a sort of boost though. A tri-boost car IS a wet dream...

[BB Turbo]

I have constantly thought about that idea. But, isn't that why we have twin turbos? One smaller one to spool up early, and one bigger one for top end? Very cool idea. I had always wondered if it had been done.

[Megaseth]

im not sure if thats what a TT setup is for, but that is a good idea though. the problem is, at higher rpms, the smaller turbo wouldnt be putting out the power of the bigger one.

[R32]

The mr2 has a 4age engine right and so corrolla Gt-s HMMMMM. with 30psi + supercharger = HMMMMM

[Megaseth]

the older mr2s had the 4age and 4agze. the corolla gt-s had the 4age and the gt-z had the 4agze. and i wouldnt run 30psi plus a supercharger unless you want a large explosion.

[whiterps13]

I have constantly thought about that idea. But, isn't that why we have twin turbos? One smaller one to spool up early, and one bigger one for top end? Very cool idea. I had always wondered if it had been done.

most twinturbo's are not set up sequentially, as a matter of fact i dont know any stock cars that are. you can get some kits to run the turbos sequentially, so the smaller one boosts quick and then it somehow switches to an already spooled larger turbo. kinda the same concept as twin charging. either way, i sense a tuning nightmare.

[nametakennow]

the older mr2s had the 4age and 4agze. the corolla gt-s had the 4age and the gt-z had the 4agze. and i wouldnt run 30psi plus a supercharger unless you want a large explosion.

Just like I told you Alex. 30psi in most cars is asking to bend/break/throw or downright explode something. Especially Audi S4s... they blow turbos on stock boost...

Anyway, I was pretty sure that the Supra and/or GT-R had stock sequential setups... white rps.

[Megaseth]

i know blitz's R34 they had ran around 34psi, but thats on a fully built motor set to run at those extremes.

[R32]

I known winston(LOL), Wow that skyline asome, What about the Signal Drag Skyline the that runs under 9secs and with 800hp and who tuned the skyline with 1240hp?

[Megaseth]

sounds like you're talking about extrvitimi's (sp) R33 that they built up. 1400hp last time i saw the site. ran like a 9.46 or something. love that dyno vid of it jumping the dyno.

[Mr1der]

most twinturbo's are not set up sequentially, as a matter of fact i dont know any stock cars that are. you can get some kits to run the turbos sequentially, so the smaller one boosts quick and then it somehow switches to an already spooled larger turbo. kinda the same concept as twin charging. either way, i sense a tuning nightmare.

both the MKIV Supra and FD RX-7 were sequential, though most people opted for a single turbo upgrade on them...