Supercharged QR2.5

[kerrton]

Some interesting news that indicates the direction that Nissan is heading in the powertrain development department, this will likely affect the Rogue sometime soon. This powertrain will first make its debut in the JX/Pathfinder, and its anyone's guess when the Rogue will see a supercharged and/or hybrid electric powertrain, I'd say this is not too far in the future....things will be getting very interesting.

nissan-infiniti-2-5l-supercharged-hybrid-t565742.html

[ImStricken06]

i love the idea of a supercharger for everyday cars. i still stand on the point i made earlier chatting with Kerrton about the ford explorer using tiny engines + infrequent oil changes + turbo's. i feel that superchargers (which also generate heat, but at least will not include the filthy 1000degree exhaust gasses) will allow the cars to remain a low maintenance vehicle - that in my estimation is what 90% of society in America want now a days. thats a good move for nissan. super chargers would make a great addition to the hungry MPG market.
-now the "hybrid" thing is a different story. i will NEVER buy a car that has a hybrid system that works off of batteries. that is a potential disaster. those thing cost $8000+ to replace, and need them replaced almost every 10years. between resale value & a repair cost issue = hybrid batteries are a total disaster. if nissan makes the gasoline engine at idle produce enough electrical juice for the electrical motors to work off of, that would be something i would absolutely think about.

personally, i still think the auto manufactures & the EPA are playing games. for some reason or another, they refuse to push diesel technology in America. If nissan mated a 1.6L turbo diesel engine (4cyl) with a hybrid system = the 1.6L I4 R9M Diesel Engine makes 280+ FT LB of TQ - AND THATS AT 1750RPM!!!lol now add in a hybrid system!? we are talking over 300 lbs of tq

THE QASHAQI MAKES A COMBINED 55MPG WITH THE 1.6L TURBO DIESEL ENGINE. you cant beat that. if i had the money, id import that car right now.

[kerrton]

I know its shocking, look at the Rogue/Qashqai in Europe and we North Americans are shocked! Like you said, the small 1.6 diesel is available, producing 280 lbft of torque and 55 mpg, absolutely unbelievable! And auto manufacturers all give the same response: "North America is not a suitable market for diesel powertrains indicated by our market research blah blah..." If people knew how amazing these powertrains are, and learned about the misconceptions (i.e. no black smoke, noisy etc.), I think everyone would be screeming for a diesel!

[ImStricken06]

I know its shocking, look at the Rogue/Qashqai in Europe and we North Americans are shocked! Like you said, the small 1.6 diesel is available, producing 280 lbft of torque and 55 mpg, absolutely unbelievable! And auto manufacturers all give the same response: "North America is not a suitable market for diesel powertrains indicated by our market research blah blah..." If people knew how amazing these powertrains are, and learned about the misconceptions (i.e. no black smoke, noisy etc.), I think everyone would be screeming for a diesel!

its the hippies that refuse to believe diesel is actually a cleaner product for the environment then gas. not only do cars achieve more power/mpg's using less fuel, but the soot settles down to the ground faster than anything coming out of a gasoline car. diesel soot is now a days is filtered and burned off, but even if any turbo by-product is emitted, it settles quicker than gasoline emissions that stay suspended longer in the atmosphere. silly hipsters lol

[kerrton]

Yeah new diesels have a lot of emissions control measures that themselves are costly, including urea injection into the exhaust etc., but I would take a modern diesel over a complex gasoline hybrid-electric system any day. Modern diesel emissions are very clean, the efficiency is roughly equal to hybrid electrics, and diesels are more durable and reliable in theory - just the fact that there is no expensive battery pack with a finite lifespan is enough to give the win to diesel. Who wants to spend thousands of dollars replacing a battery pack every 8-10 years to the cost of say $8000-$10,000?

Regardless of which is better, in North America neither are very popular. The vast majority of vehicles are regular gasoline combustion engines which too are getting more efficient all the time but still cannot touch diesels for power and efficiency.

[ImStricken06]

Yeah new diesels have a lot of emissions control measures that themselves are costly, including urea injection into the exhaust etc., but I would take a modern diesel over a complex gasoline hybrid-electric system any day. Modern diesel emissions are very clean, the efficiency is roughly equal to hybrid electrics, and diesels are more durable and reliable in theory - just the fact that there is no expensive battery pack with a finite lifespan is enough to give the win to diesel. Who wants to spend thousands of dollars replacing a battery pack every 8-10 years to the cost of say $8000-$10,000?

Regardless of which is better, in North America neither are very popular. The vast majority of vehicles are regular gasoline combustion engines which too are getting more efficient all the time but still cannot touch diesels for power and efficiency.

hipsters dont even wanna hear this simple argument: coal miners are using diesel carts underground. those diesel engines have such great filtration & emission systems that the air that comes out of the exhaust pipe is breathable by humans.

[kerrton]

This article makes the point against hybrid electric in another way: The Altima hybrid was killed off last year because they were able to increase the efficiency of the combustion gasoline engine in the new Altima to the point where it equaled the efficiency of the old Altima hybrid. Therefore.....no need for an expensive, complex hybrid version.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/10/22/ni ... initi-cuv/

They then go on to explain that regardless of the above fact, Nissan is set to jump back in to the gasoline hybrid-electric game, presumable because the new hybrid system is a lot more advanced and effective when combined with new engine tech, compared to the "old" system they were previously borrowing from Toyota.

[ImStricken06]

loved this one line from yahoo news: "For example, when the lives of the cars are compared, a Hummer actually uses less energy overall than Prius, when you consider what it takes to manufacture the car and that a hybrid won't last as long."

[Rogue Noob]

The Element forum had a strong contingent of "give us the Diesel" as well but I think the truth is diesel has a stigma in the US and that is just one of the problems. Every diesel I see has a black bumper (referring to VWs), most people only know diesels as semis or F-350 and they are loud as hell, stereotypically slow (remember the Mercedes or Volvo back in the day?), and Diesel is more expensive now. I think if they just brought them here, let people test drive them without knowing the fuel source there may be a shot to convince people it is a great option.

I do remember reading that Europe does not have the same emissions standards as the US which is why they can get such better MPG. Now, that confuses me how a F-350 will pass emissions but a smaller diesel from Europe won't but I am very ignorant to diesel technology. If they felt they could make money in this market with them, they would make it happen IMO. I'd be down for one for sure though!

[ImStricken06]

The Element forum had a strong contingent of "give us the Diesel" as well but I think the truth is diesel has a stigma in the US and that is just one of the problems. Every diesel I see has a black bumper (referring to VWs), most people only know diesels as semis or F-350 and they are loud as hell, stereotypically slow (remember the Mercedes or Volvo back in the day?), and Diesel is more expensive now. I think if they just brought them here, let people test drive them without knowing the fuel source there may be a shot to convince people it is a great option.

I do remember reading that Europe does not have the same emissions standards as the US which is why they can get such better MPG. Now, that confuses me how a F-350 will pass emissions but a smaller diesel from Europe won't but I am very ignorant to diesel technology. If they felt they could make money in this market with them, they would make it happen IMO. I'd be down for one for sure though!

very well said. your 100% right, diesel does have a huge stigma. but people need to understand that the noise has been reduced via piezo injector. this piezo injector takes what would ordinarily be one squirt of fuel, and divides it up into up 9 tiny squirts of fuel to not make one BANG of fuel explosion, but 9 tiny flames of power, thus reducing that typical diesel engine Knock that people are accustomed too.

and regarding europe's emission standards, i can tell you first hand europe has some of the most strictest standards around. they check every and anything to the T. the slightest off, and you fail and are penalized. its places like florida with no inspection at all, that are causing pollution lol.

[kerrton]

Good point, emissions standards differ a lot around the world and really affect the profit bottom line for manufacturers and sticker price for consumers.

In my area its hard to find a gas station that sells diesel, so for me thats another point to consider - convenience.

Word is that Mazda is going to offer the new CX-5 crossover (which has been very successful in its first model year) with a diesel in North America. It'll be good for someone other than VW to give it a try and show consumers the "new" diesels. Price is something I'll be intersted in checking out - if you have to pay an extra $5000 over the gasoline version (which is very efficient itself), it will probably flop. It's gotta be cost effective, a 5-10 mpg improvement is a big cost savings itself over time, but the intitial shock of the much higher MSRP sticker price is tough to swallow when you have to wait 5-10 years to recoupe the investment and reap the benefits.