Super Cooler

[A34D4ME]

Ok here is my idea. Actually, Nitrous Express beat me to it but f*&k em.

The idea is to use CO2 to lower intake air temp to super cold. CO2 is dirt cheep and comes out super cold.

Nitrous Express' system sprays an intercooler and is overpriced. But, I'm thinking of making an inexpensive, N/A inline unit from copper pipe and parts I use at work - I work with CO2.

My system would simply have an inexpensive valve to turn it on and off but a solenoid is possible. The whole system is under $200 and I could lower my intake air a hell of a lot. BTW, I notice a big HP gain when it gets cold outside.

You guys are all pretty tech savy, what do you think?

[S14tat]

i see where your coming from, but where are you gonna get a compact bottle of c02 from? all the c02 bottles i see are pretty hefty.

[A34D4ME]

They come in all kinds of sizes. The standard N2O bottles are the same bottles. Or they make little mini 5Lb ones. They can be rented too. Plus CO2 is like $15 for a standard nitrous size bottle that lasts for a long, long time.

[S14tat]

so the valving and bottle is the same? so you can just go to like any soda place and just have them fill up the bottle? do they come in compressed liquid form or is it pure gas?

[A34D4ME]

You got it - they are compressed liquid, and a whole lot of it. 900PSI and comes out colder than hell too - I'm talking big white stream, ice on the tank, don't let it hit your skin or you'll be sorry, cold. Dry ice is solid CO2 if that helps.

[eddiec]

how are you cooling the intake charge? spraying the i/c? ?? ??

[A34D4ME]

Yes, it would use an intercooler of a type that would be sprayed with super cold CO2.

[Chezedik]

There is a company called Cryo2 that already makes it. They also make an intake charge that works similarly to nitrous in that it cools air up to 70% or so, but is a little safer. But they also do the intercooler thing. I have thought about it, but I would rather do the thing with the new Johnny Racecar thing, with the lines internal on the intercooler. Also, I would then want to inject it into the engine, so I didn't waste a ton to not put into the motor.

[A34D4ME]

Nitrous Express also makes one. I'm thinking of a much better design for an N/A motor that would use a simple manual valve. You would have to have access to the hose from the drivers seat but you could leave your bottle turned on all the time and it would be cheeper.

Their system uses an electric solenoid which is nice but requires the tank be closed when not in use. I could do this too but it also costs more and you have to open the bottle.

Pluse, they offer a 4" or so inline cooling piece with a sad little tube running through it - I'm thinking of a 12" honeycomb heat exchanger design to get the intake air seriously cold.

[eddiec]

wouldn't the honeycomb disrupt the flow? correct me if i'm wrong but on a n/a you need nice smooth flow which increases velocity etc..

[Skidmark]

I've been considering making a CO2 I/C sprayer for a while now. The only real disadvantage I can think of is that you have to find a way to keep the CO2 completely isolated from your intake cuz, well, CO2 in your engine would suck. If you manage to pull it off I would be interested to see the gains it produces. Obviously it wouldn't be nearly what you would see from a turbo car, but cold air is cold air, whether you're forcing it or not.

[Chezedik]

Here is a link:http://www.designengineering.c...pid=1

[xTearsFallForeverx]

i thought about having an ic plumbed with refridgerant lines similar to that of an ac condensor, and just tapping into the existing A/C lines on the A/C pump, adding a little more freeon(however its spelled) to fill the lines. the freeon running between the fins should keep it nice and cold. You could also maybe find an electric freeon pump so as not to reduce HP. I think it would work? maybe? or would condensation be a problem. I suppose you could have a switch to control the flow to only when you needed it.

[nissanfanatic]

Think of this:

Boost is created by turbochargers via increased air velocity. The impeller increases the velocity of intake air and the diffuser slows it down to increase static pressure, bla bla bla. Be that as it may, air is still going faster than your car ever will even at 5psi...

Now, when is the last time you quickly slapped a hot stove to show off? I did it two days ago at work and freaked a girl I know out. "GOD! don't do that...." was what she said. I didn't even get a chance to feel how hot that stove was(and this was a propane oven with ceramic tile base(where the food sits) that burns at 600*F). Why? Energy transfer takes time. Time can be used as a buffer, just as hot mits, water, ect.

Point being, air won't be in contact with your CO2 heat exchanger long enough to provide any kind of beneficial cooling effect. Water injection is a more effective method of advanced charge cooling.

[A34D4ME]

Nissanfanatic, you do have a point but devices such as intercoolers work for a reason. I see the point about the hot stove but I think it's a little extreme.

By using materials that transfer heat quickly and have lots of surface area the intake air can be routed in such a way that almost every drop of air makes good contact with the freezing cold surface. Intercoolers break the air down and send it through wide, flat aluminium tubes with heat sink material in between them. This is super efficient but I'm afraid it would cause to much back pressure for an N/A motor.

As for your basic idea - yes, slower moving air would be better.
Modified by A34D4ME at 8:18 AM 12/26/2005

[A34D4ME]

wouldn't the honeycomb disrupt the flow? correct me if i'm wrong but on a n/a you need nice smooth flow which increases velocity etc..

That is a concern which I'm taking into consideration. The proper design should not inhibit flow. I'd like to have no loss of pipe area if possible and breaking the flow into several smaller tubes might even reduce turbulance. Only testing will show the answer I guess.

I've been considering making a CO2 I/C sprayer for a while now. The only real disadvantage I can think of is that you have to find a way to keep the CO2 completely isolated from your intake cuz, well, CO2 in your engine would suck.

The CO2 srays onto the outside of a series of tubes that the intake air is passing through.

I'm thinking of a design that would route the intake air through several aluminium tubes, say 3/4" diameter and 12-18" long, with very thin wall pipe for quick heat transfer. Hopefully, the total area of the pipes would at least match the stock intake area. These pipes will run through a sleve and have the CO2 spayed on the outer surface of the pipes.

[A34D4ME]

i thought about having an ic plumbed with refridgerant lines similar to that of an ac condensor, and just tapping into the existing A/C lines on the A/C pump, adding a little more freeon(however its spelled) to fill the lines. the freeon running between the fins should keep it nice and cold. You could also maybe find an electric freeon pump so as not to reduce HP. I think it would work? maybe? or would condensation be a problem. I suppose you could have a switch to control the flow to only when you needed it.

Good idea - I toyed with this as well. Problem is it takes too much power to run the A/C. And I like my A/C like it is.

CO2 is under $10 for a 10lb (NOS sized) bottle and under $15 for a 20lb size. That's a lot of cold air.

[A34D4ME]

Here is a link:http://www.designengineering.c...pid=1

Their N/A system sucks and is way too complicated and expensive. I'm sure a 4" sleve with one sucky little cold tube wouldn't work.

[xTearsFallForeverx]

Good idea - I toyed with this as well. Problem is it takes too much power to run the A/C. And I like my A/C like it is.

you could wire up an electric pump instead with its own holding tank and evaporator. as the air rushed over the ic and hit the pipes, technically it should get almost to freezing temperatures. like sometimes airconditioning units freeze up, or you get ice on the outside of the fin area. the only downside i might see is if the intercooler sweat inside, but because the air entering it is so hot, i doubt there is much water left inside it once its compressed. this kind of IC would be very easily pursued and I think it would actually yeild very high results.

[A34D4ME]

you could wire up an electric pump instead with its own holding tank and evaporator. as the air rushed over the ic and hit the pipes, technically it should get almost to freezing temperatures. like sometimes airconditioning units freeze up, or you get ice on the outside of the fin area. the only downside i might see is if the intercooler sweat inside, but because the air entering it is so hot, i doubt there is much water left inside it once its compressed. this kind of IC would be very easily pursued and I think it would actually yeild very high results.

It would take an awfull lot of current to run an a/c compressor. Plus it would be a large, complicated setup. It could be done that way, but why?

CO2 will come out far below freezing but you don't have to worry about ice. Besides, I'm considering something for an N/A motor. A good system for a turbo intercooler is already on the market.