Suggestions? Building a Z24
Suggestions? Building a Z24
I have basically a blank slate. I bought a complete rebuilt z24 engine that was rebuilt couple years ago, but never installed. I give $50 for it sothis gives me about $1000 to put in it. Now what would you do. I am thinking weber carb and header for starters. Also just got an extra transmission for $20.
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
Weber outlaw 38 carb, Schnider cam, header, You can only improve on the head so far because there's not really that much room for porting so you're really limited there but a 3 or 5 angle valve job and some mild porting will be enough for a noticeable difference... Boosting the compression will also help but high compression pistons for these are hard to find and you can only mill the head so far before running into cam timing problems... About the most you can get out of these engines realistically speaking is about 130 HP at the flywheel, which is why most people who are looking for more performance are going with the newer KA24 engines which are about 135HP stock with more room for improvement.
Really, your options are limited with the Z series engines since performance wasn't exactly a priority when designed, but high priority was for emissions and smog control so maybe you can get a hold of the KA24 engine which can be upgraded much easier and sell the Z24 or you can turbo charge the z24 for best performance gains and still stay in your price range...
Really, your options are limited with the Z series engines since performance wasn't exactly a priority when designed, but high priority was for emissions and smog control so maybe you can get a hold of the KA24 engine which can be upgraded much easier and sell the Z24 or you can turbo charge the z24 for best performance gains and still stay in your price range...
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
I am really wanting to stay with the carb and how would I turbo mine. Thanks
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
You can turbo it with the carb but you'll have 2 choices to make... blow thru or draw thru system.
The draw thru system is the easiest to set up and tune but you're limited to about 8 psi or so boost since you can't intercool a draw thru system.
The way it works is by placing the carb at the turbo inlet so it draws the air fuel mix from the carb. A prime example for this system would be the 79-83 turbo mustangs which had carburated 2.3 liter engines with the carb connected directly to the turbo inlet. It might be worth while to look these cars up since the parts can easily be suited for the Z24 engine.
the Blow Thru setup is just that, the carb is mounted to the intake manifold like usual, then the turbo outlet is connected to the carb inlet. This setup comes with it's unique advantages and drawbacks as well. The blow thru setup does allow for use of an intercooler so more boost can be ran as well as getting more power per pound of boost from the cooler intake charge, but the drawbacks are you either need a highly modified carb set up to handle the boost or you'll need to fabricate an air tight box to put the carb into so the pressure inside the carb is equal to the pressure outside the carb, this setup allows for more normal operation of the carb without all the sealing mods,power valve ,bowl vent, accelerator pump, and vaccuum line issues you'd run into with blowing the air charge directly into the carb inlet. there are plenty of shops that can properly modify a carb to run under boost, but it's far easier to enclose the carb.
In conclusion, the draw thru has it's advantages of being the lowest costing and easiest to tune and set up, but it's drawbacks being that you can't run an intercooler for 2 reasons, 1, atomization problems sending the mixture into one, and 2, you do NOT want to backfire into an intercooler filled with pressurized fuel and air. You need to keep your plumbing as short distance as possible since the atomized fuel is running thru the entire intake tract, and you're limited to how much boost you can run due to the fact the charge can't be intercooled. it is possible, however, to run the carb into the turbo inlet, then run the outlet a few feet to the intake manifold that's on the other side of the head.
The Blow thru has it's advantages of more power capabilities since you can run an intercooler, but at a higher setup cost. It's main drawback really is cost to modify the carb, and to run an intercooler if you wish, as well as if you decide to enclose the carb, the drawback there is lack of easy access to the carb fur tuning, and you guessed it, more cost.
Personally, I'd go with the draw thru setup since 8 psi boost still quite safe to run, it's a lot less expensive, and very easy to tune (think of about 8 to 10 hp per pound of boost gained without an intercooler and about 12 to 15 hp per pound with one). That's basically the potential for about a 50 to 70 hp gain over stock and if you do most of the work yourself with a new turbo and used parts off an older turbo mustang you'll still stay under your $1000 budget.
The draw thru system is the easiest to set up and tune but you're limited to about 8 psi or so boost since you can't intercool a draw thru system.
The way it works is by placing the carb at the turbo inlet so it draws the air fuel mix from the carb. A prime example for this system would be the 79-83 turbo mustangs which had carburated 2.3 liter engines with the carb connected directly to the turbo inlet. It might be worth while to look these cars up since the parts can easily be suited for the Z24 engine.
the Blow Thru setup is just that, the carb is mounted to the intake manifold like usual, then the turbo outlet is connected to the carb inlet. This setup comes with it's unique advantages and drawbacks as well. The blow thru setup does allow for use of an intercooler so more boost can be ran as well as getting more power per pound of boost from the cooler intake charge, but the drawbacks are you either need a highly modified carb set up to handle the boost or you'll need to fabricate an air tight box to put the carb into so the pressure inside the carb is equal to the pressure outside the carb, this setup allows for more normal operation of the carb without all the sealing mods,power valve ,bowl vent, accelerator pump, and vaccuum line issues you'd run into with blowing the air charge directly into the carb inlet. there are plenty of shops that can properly modify a carb to run under boost, but it's far easier to enclose the carb.
In conclusion, the draw thru has it's advantages of being the lowest costing and easiest to tune and set up, but it's drawbacks being that you can't run an intercooler for 2 reasons, 1, atomization problems sending the mixture into one, and 2, you do NOT want to backfire into an intercooler filled with pressurized fuel and air. You need to keep your plumbing as short distance as possible since the atomized fuel is running thru the entire intake tract, and you're limited to how much boost you can run due to the fact the charge can't be intercooled. it is possible, however, to run the carb into the turbo inlet, then run the outlet a few feet to the intake manifold that's on the other side of the head.
The Blow thru has it's advantages of more power capabilities since you can run an intercooler, but at a higher setup cost. It's main drawback really is cost to modify the carb, and to run an intercooler if you wish, as well as if you decide to enclose the carb, the drawback there is lack of easy access to the carb fur tuning, and you guessed it, more cost.
Personally, I'd go with the draw thru setup since 8 psi boost still quite safe to run, it's a lot less expensive, and very easy to tune (think of about 8 to 10 hp per pound of boost gained without an intercooler and about 12 to 15 hp per pound with one). That's basically the potential for about a 50 to 70 hp gain over stock and if you do most of the work yourself with a new turbo and used parts off an older turbo mustang you'll still stay under your $1000 budget.
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
Cool Thanks....here is where I am at. I love the sound of turbo, but I am wanting to keep kinda original with this in mind Weber carb, header, electric fan, and electric water pump maybe cam depending on what all I have to change and head work(check on estimates), aluminum radiator. Also what about ignition does msd or any others make any kind of uprades? Thanks again davezilla for all info on turbo I have it saved for later.
-
PEZi
- Posts: 20441
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:21 am
- Car: Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX Mitsubishi Racing Edition
- Location: Pikes Peak, CO
- Contact:
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
MSD doesn't make anything for the truck, but I have seen people use it before with their own modifcations/tuning.
-
flinterman2000
- Posts: 1011
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 5:32 pm
- Car: 2000 Nissan Wingroad, 85 Datsun 720 Pick Up.
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
MSD has a coil for street use and can be used with the right resistor. I have the coil but no pics as yet. As for going turbo, fuel pressure regulation is critical. 8lbs fuel for 10lbs boost. I'm documenting a turboed Nissan sunny with the original engine, yes the origfinal 1500cc NA engine the car came with running 3lbs boost and does 16 sec on the track.CUBCOOP wrote:Cool Thanks....here is where I am at. I love the sound of turbo, but I am wanting to keep kinda original with this in mind Weber carb, header, electric fan, and electric water pump maybe cam depending on what all I have to change and head work(check on estimates), aluminum radiator. Also what about ignition does msd or any others make any kind of uprades? Thanks again davezilla for all info on turbo I have it saved for later.
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
Nice! I have my truck pictured in my mind and I am making a list. One more question If I build my engine how I plan to now with carb, cam, head work, header, electric fan, and water pump..if the gives me around 125-130hp...will I be able to turbo it and get at least 170hp?
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
You will get more power after you turbo a modified engine and the 170 mark should be easy to reach with a 2.4 liter engine. You gotta keep certain things in mind if you definitely plan on going the turbo route tho. Fuel pressure was already mentioned and it's the easiest way to keep the air fuel ratio correct as boost rises by using an adjustable regulator that can run under boost, many companies make these so getting one won't bee too hard to do.
You'll also need a way to retard the timing to prevent detonation and several companies make universal fit boost retard modules such as MSD, you'll also need stronger coils since it gets more difficult for the spark to jump the gap as cyinder pressures increase, running tighter plug gaps will also help.
If you plan on going with a turbo for sure, cam selection is also different, you can use the stock cam with good results, but if you want to run a hotter cam you'll need one with a wider lobe separation since you want the turbo to push the air and fuel in instead of letting the exhaust scavenge the charge in, basically, if you go out and buy a hot cam for a NA engine, a lot of the power producing boost will be blown right out the exhaust at the overlap points. You'll want to keep the lobe separation around 114 degrees or more to reduce the overlap, duration and lift can still be high as long as there's as little overlap as possible. All the major cam companies have special turbo cams available or can custom grind one from your core.
Stock pistons can hold up to low to moderate boost, but I'd go with a set of forged pistons since they're considerably stronger.
For the carb, Weber is most likely your best net since they're easy to tune and many people have modded them to run under boost, there should be enough info on the net how to set them up to run properly under boost. Fuel injection is much easier to deal with when converting over to turbo but a properly tuned carb will give you about the same power.
I'm sure I forgot a few things, but that'll give you the idea and some basic info to start with. You can look up Bell Engineering and give them a call or 3 since they're really good at turbo conversions as well as making fuel regulators and other turbo components... they can even cast you a one off manifold if needed...
You'll also need a way to retard the timing to prevent detonation and several companies make universal fit boost retard modules such as MSD, you'll also need stronger coils since it gets more difficult for the spark to jump the gap as cyinder pressures increase, running tighter plug gaps will also help.
If you plan on going with a turbo for sure, cam selection is also different, you can use the stock cam with good results, but if you want to run a hotter cam you'll need one with a wider lobe separation since you want the turbo to push the air and fuel in instead of letting the exhaust scavenge the charge in, basically, if you go out and buy a hot cam for a NA engine, a lot of the power producing boost will be blown right out the exhaust at the overlap points. You'll want to keep the lobe separation around 114 degrees or more to reduce the overlap, duration and lift can still be high as long as there's as little overlap as possible. All the major cam companies have special turbo cams available or can custom grind one from your core.
Stock pistons can hold up to low to moderate boost, but I'd go with a set of forged pistons since they're considerably stronger.
For the carb, Weber is most likely your best net since they're easy to tune and many people have modded them to run under boost, there should be enough info on the net how to set them up to run properly under boost. Fuel injection is much easier to deal with when converting over to turbo but a properly tuned carb will give you about the same power.
I'm sure I forgot a few things, but that'll give you the idea and some basic info to start with. You can look up Bell Engineering and give them a call or 3 since they're really good at turbo conversions as well as making fuel regulators and other turbo components... they can even cast you a one off manifold if needed...
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
Awesome news! I'm goin with Weber outlaw 38 carb, a cam with 114 degrees a 3 angle valve job, a header and quite possibly forged pistons for the time being, but I am on the look out for the mustang turbo setup. Thanks again Davezilla. The 130 should do for the time being. Do I just change out cam or what else do I need for that mod?
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
It's customary to replace the lifters with a cam because they break in and become a matched set, not doing this will cause excessive wear. our engines don't use lifters but they do use cam followers, these can either be changed out for new ones, but they're very expensive. I've had success in the past with polishing out the old ones and re using them, the way I did it was with some 180 grit paper on a sheet of flat glass, just sand away any grooves til the contact surface is nice and even, then go up to 220, then 320, then finally 400, they don't need to be mirror smooth, but they do need to be very smooth with no wear marks from the previous install, They also have a slight curved contour on that surface that you'll want to keep intact. Some cam companies will sell you a set of re surfaced cam followers in exchange for your old ones to save you some time and prevent new cam failure. For the cam break in, you'll want to be sure the engine will start the first try, then run the engine between 2500 and 4000 rpm for the 1st 15 minutes, do not let it idle during this time and keep changing the rpm. Once that's done, your cam is properly broken in and will last the life of your engine.
-
huitronjonathan
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:45 pm
- Car: 86 Nissan 720 pickup
Re: Suggestions? Building a Z24
Would it be easier to stick with the Z24 instead of going with a Ka? If not, what would the price be ranged about if I may ask? Since I have a 86 720 with a Z24 carburated but at the same time I want to go fuel injected. My friend was telling me that carbureted is better then fuel injected since you can stay at high RPM's longer.