suggestion for a sticky... and a question also
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AustinSilvia
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suggestion for a sticky... and a question also
seeing as it is something that is addressed on a very regular basis, i think it would be a good idea to post a sticky detailing the proper procedure for adjusting gain, bass boost, and crossover frequency among other things.that being said i have a quick question (probably for simm but of course open to whoever can help me out). i was wondering what the proper order for adjusting an amplifiers gain, crossover, and what not. do you adjust the frequency before adjusting gain? this is how i have always done it but i have been thinking lately that it may be pushing my speakers a little too hard. not that i listen to them cranked up all the way, but just that they *should* be set differently to avoid any potential failures or whatever. i've just never really thought about it until now. to me it makes sense to adjust it the way i do - frequency and then gain - but please let me know if this is not correct. thanks
I agree about this stick thing...
I think if each area was decribed in detail and the "standard" procedure for setting up a new system, we would all be in good shape.
I was still awaiting a reply from simms on my thread http://nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=84800 I tried doing what he said, so i guess we'll see.
But anyhow, I woudl also love to know what each really does and therefor I could kinda set it up how i want it or the safeest and cleanest suonding way I can.
I think if each area was decribed in detail and the "standard" procedure for setting up a new system, we would all be in good shape.
I was still awaiting a reply from simms on my thread http://nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=84800 I tried doing what he said, so i guess we'll see.
But anyhow, I woudl also love to know what each really does and therefor I could kinda set it up how i want it or the safeest and cleanest suonding way I can.
i would adjust the gain first. put the volume on your deck to about 3/4 and turn the gain up until the speaker distorts, then turn it down a bit. if you dont know what the frequency range is on the speaker, find out. set the LPF to just a little higher than the lowest frequency (just to be safe) and set the HPF to just below the highest frequency range.
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AustinSilvia
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- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:06 am
- Car: CARS, nissans sr20det ftw!
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AustinSilvia
- Posts: 577
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:06 am
- Car: CARS, nissans sr20det ftw!
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PoorManQ45
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PoorManQ45
- Posts: 16676
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:13 pm
When first setting gain, all equalizers should be turned off. This includes the bass boost.
Now, you should understand that the gain has NOTHING to do with the amplifiers output rating. The gain just adjusts the sensitivity to match the output voltage of the headunit. Example, if your head unit puts out a 2v rms signal, your amp gain should be set for 2v rms also. Each amp is different. you have to read the manual to know where, and how, your gain is set up.
Usually, turning the gain clockwise adjusts it for a lower voltage signal. Lets say that you head unit puts out an 8 volt signal, and your amp accepts an 8~1 volt signal. Theoretically your gain should be turn all the way to the left, couterclock wise, as this will match your amp to your HU output. Now, if you turn the gain all the way to the right, clockwise, you will be telling your amp to expect a 1v signal, but your HU is putting out an 8 volt signal. This basically means that your amplifier, for ever position of the volume on the HU, will try to put out 8 times as must power as it would if you had the gain set for an 8 volt signal. You should be able to realize that this would cause the amplifier to "clip" the signal very soon.
Clipping the amplifier, contrary to popular belief, does NOT cause it to output a DC, direct current, signal current to the driver(s). It basically turns the standard sine wave, which is what your amplifier normally puts out, and turns it into a square wave. A square wave basically is an instantaneous change in frequency over an extremely large range. Now, for the driver to be able to play this square wave, it would have to be an infinite acceleration device, which it is not. There is a lag time between frequency changes. Anyways, driver will NOT move very much. If a large amount of power is being fed to the voice coil, greater then the voice coils thermal capacity, the voice coil will heat up very rapidly due to the lack of air movement normally created by the cone moving back and forth.
Now, there are cases that clipping does not destroy drivers. Take for example, a 50w RMS amplifier that is forced into clipping, which would be ~100~125w, and fed that into a voice coil that could handle 500w RMS. The driver would not be harmed as it has sufficient thermal capacity to handle the current.
If you need anything cleared up, or would like to add anything, fell free to do so.
Now, you should understand that the gain has NOTHING to do with the amplifiers output rating. The gain just adjusts the sensitivity to match the output voltage of the headunit. Example, if your head unit puts out a 2v rms signal, your amp gain should be set for 2v rms also. Each amp is different. you have to read the manual to know where, and how, your gain is set up.
Usually, turning the gain clockwise adjusts it for a lower voltage signal. Lets say that you head unit puts out an 8 volt signal, and your amp accepts an 8~1 volt signal. Theoretically your gain should be turn all the way to the left, couterclock wise, as this will match your amp to your HU output. Now, if you turn the gain all the way to the right, clockwise, you will be telling your amp to expect a 1v signal, but your HU is putting out an 8 volt signal. This basically means that your amplifier, for ever position of the volume on the HU, will try to put out 8 times as must power as it would if you had the gain set for an 8 volt signal. You should be able to realize that this would cause the amplifier to "clip" the signal very soon.
Clipping the amplifier, contrary to popular belief, does NOT cause it to output a DC, direct current, signal current to the driver(s). It basically turns the standard sine wave, which is what your amplifier normally puts out, and turns it into a square wave. A square wave basically is an instantaneous change in frequency over an extremely large range. Now, for the driver to be able to play this square wave, it would have to be an infinite acceleration device, which it is not. There is a lag time between frequency changes. Anyways, driver will NOT move very much. If a large amount of power is being fed to the voice coil, greater then the voice coils thermal capacity, the voice coil will heat up very rapidly due to the lack of air movement normally created by the cone moving back and forth.
Now, there are cases that clipping does not destroy drivers. Take for example, a 50w RMS amplifier that is forced into clipping, which would be ~100~125w, and fed that into a voice coil that could handle 500w RMS. The driver would not be harmed as it has sufficient thermal capacity to handle the current.
If you need anything cleared up, or would like to add anything, fell free to do so.
Re: (hysteria)
Well let me say, that while I agree we seem to have alot of stickies in this forum, PMQ doesn't decide what is and isn't sticky material . His help is appreciated.hysteria wrote:ok, thanks. i didn't need help i was just suggesting it because so many people ask the question... thanks for the reply
I say we get a good thread put together and then decide. I alos think (if I take/get the time) maybe the Bose & speaker size threads could be combined. I'll see how Simm feels about that.
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PoorManQ45
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Re: (Rex)
Darn, I was hoping that you'd miss that partRex wrote:Well let me say, that while I agree we seem to have alot of stickies in this forum, PMQ doesn't decide what is and isn't sticky material . His help is appreciated.
How was my explanation? ANything need to be corrected?
Re: (Rex)
sounds good.
the explanation was good for people who know what clipping is and all that. i'd do a short write up but i have stuff to do... a guy sent me the wrong body kit for my car so i'm having to deal with this right now. anyhow when i get the time i'll add my 2 cents and what not. i think simm has a few things to say about all of this tuning stuff (just a few things), so i'll just hope he posts up his unbounding knowledge on the subjects at hand.
uh yeah so maybe we should just start posting up more and more and more here and hopefully it will get added to the bose thread. hint hint to anyone who is reading this going "oh i know how to do that..." a lot of people who post up here don't so contribute what you know.
the explanation was good for people who know what clipping is and all that. i'd do a short write up but i have stuff to do... a guy sent me the wrong body kit for my car so i'm having to deal with this right now. anyhow when i get the time i'll add my 2 cents and what not. i think simm has a few things to say about all of this tuning stuff (just a few things), so i'll just hope he posts up his unbounding knowledge on the subjects at hand.
uh yeah so maybe we should just start posting up more and more and more here and hopefully it will get added to the bose thread. hint hint to anyone who is reading this going "oh i know how to do that..." a lot of people who post up here don't so contribute what you know.
Re: (hysteria)
This is a bit of general knowledge on how to tune your system (layman's terms where applicable).
First things first the "gain" is not a power knob nor is it a volume control. The gain is an adjustable output level controller that is intended to match the headunit RCA level voltage to the amp output voltage. Which means that you should be able to turn the headunit volume control almost all the way up and have no audible speaker distortion on normal music material. That being said, you have a few hurdles to get over.
Amplifier gain setting is an essential action to take for proper sound setup. Everyone has a cd that they like to listen to loud. I would use this disc for the setup.
Make sure that your car is OFF if you have a loud exhaust or loud intake. This makes sure that you can hear distortion. Obviously you wont be able to do this if you have so many amps that it would drain your battery after 5 min.
BTW, this is for HIGHS/MIDS ONLY at this pointTurn your gains down to MIN, make sure that they are not at MAX on your amp.Turn your cd player on and put your bass and treble at -0-.If you have crossovers, set them at around the frequencies I am about to list
SPEAKER SIZE / Reccommended Frequency.
3.5: 150 - 200hz4 and 4x6: 125 - 175hz5.25 and 5x7: 90 - 125hz6.5: 70 - 100hz6x9: 50 - 90hz
Then put your cd in your deck and turn it up to a few clicks under your max on your cd player. Now, go back to your amp and turn up your gain until you hear distortion.
Turn your gain to the point just under distortion and you've got your max. Turn the volume down and enjoy.
BUT there are a few things to consider. VOLUME and Frequency Response
Your options are these...
Run your speakers with high pass crossovers set at a low frequency. This will allow most of the bass to get thru and still allow you to play it loud. You will lose a bit of bass, but the overall output level will be high. The second option you have is to run your system with no high pass crossovers. This will allow you to hear all of the bass that your system is capable of producing. The only problem with this is that you will lose much of your overall output level. You wont be able to turn it up as loud as you could with a high pass crossover.
When it comes to bass boost, boosting 6.5 inch speakers is not a good idea. Bass boost is designed for systems that utilize speakers intended for low frequency reproduction (subwoofer(s)).
This is my recommendation:
Set your head unit bass to -3 and your treble to +2.Disable your high pass crossover.Then get in and play music and see how loud you can play it without distortion. If this is acceptable, then go no further youve got it.
At this point, your doors and rear deck most likely will rattle (sounds like something is blown, but it is not). This is normal. Your speakers are not actually distorting but the mounting surface and surrounding material is resonating. You have 2 options. Sound deadening or using your amp's high pass filter. Using sound deadening will allow you to hear more bass louder without your car resonating. It is a good investment at any point in your system's progression. If you decide not to sound deaden at this point, go and turn on your high pass crossovers and set them to about 80hz. You will notice a loss in bass but your overall sound output level will increase drastically.
I will continue a bit later...
First things first the "gain" is not a power knob nor is it a volume control. The gain is an adjustable output level controller that is intended to match the headunit RCA level voltage to the amp output voltage. Which means that you should be able to turn the headunit volume control almost all the way up and have no audible speaker distortion on normal music material. That being said, you have a few hurdles to get over.
Amplifier gain setting is an essential action to take for proper sound setup. Everyone has a cd that they like to listen to loud. I would use this disc for the setup.
Make sure that your car is OFF if you have a loud exhaust or loud intake. This makes sure that you can hear distortion. Obviously you wont be able to do this if you have so many amps that it would drain your battery after 5 min.
BTW, this is for HIGHS/MIDS ONLY at this pointTurn your gains down to MIN, make sure that they are not at MAX on your amp.Turn your cd player on and put your bass and treble at -0-.If you have crossovers, set them at around the frequencies I am about to list
SPEAKER SIZE / Reccommended Frequency.
3.5: 150 - 200hz4 and 4x6: 125 - 175hz5.25 and 5x7: 90 - 125hz6.5: 70 - 100hz6x9: 50 - 90hz
Then put your cd in your deck and turn it up to a few clicks under your max on your cd player. Now, go back to your amp and turn up your gain until you hear distortion.
Turn your gain to the point just under distortion and you've got your max. Turn the volume down and enjoy.
BUT there are a few things to consider. VOLUME and Frequency Response
Your options are these...
Run your speakers with high pass crossovers set at a low frequency. This will allow most of the bass to get thru and still allow you to play it loud. You will lose a bit of bass, but the overall output level will be high. The second option you have is to run your system with no high pass crossovers. This will allow you to hear all of the bass that your system is capable of producing. The only problem with this is that you will lose much of your overall output level. You wont be able to turn it up as loud as you could with a high pass crossover.
When it comes to bass boost, boosting 6.5 inch speakers is not a good idea. Bass boost is designed for systems that utilize speakers intended for low frequency reproduction (subwoofer(s)).
This is my recommendation:
Set your head unit bass to -3 and your treble to +2.Disable your high pass crossover.Then get in and play music and see how loud you can play it without distortion. If this is acceptable, then go no further youve got it.
At this point, your doors and rear deck most likely will rattle (sounds like something is blown, but it is not). This is normal. Your speakers are not actually distorting but the mounting surface and surrounding material is resonating. You have 2 options. Sound deadening or using your amp's high pass filter. Using sound deadening will allow you to hear more bass louder without your car resonating. It is a good investment at any point in your system's progression. If you decide not to sound deaden at this point, go and turn on your high pass crossovers and set them to about 80hz. You will notice a loss in bass but your overall sound output level will increase drastically.
I will continue a bit later...
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PoorManQ45
- Posts: 16676
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:13 pm
Re: (Simmsled)
Good explanation, but there's a little bit that you left out in you explanation of bass boost.
If you are going to be using your bass boost, I recommend that you tune your system WITH the bass boost turned ON. If you don't, then you are likely to either cause the amplifier to clip due to the increased power demand, or blow the speaker(s) if they are unable to handle the increased power.
I bass boost works by increasing the power from the amplifier to the speaker. If it is a 3dB boost, it will double the power output, if it is a 6dB increase, it will quadruple the power output.Simmsled wrote:When it comes to bass boost, boosting 6.5 inch speakers is not a good idea. Bass boost is designed for systems that utilize speakers intended for low frequency reproduction (subwoofer(s)).
If you are going to be using your bass boost, I recommend that you tune your system WITH the bass boost turned ON. If you don't, then you are likely to either cause the amplifier to clip due to the increased power demand, or blow the speaker(s) if they are unable to handle the increased power.