Sub amp recommendation?

[Yorb]

I have a pair of JL Audio 10W3 subs. Rated at 250W RMS I believe, 4-ohm.

My current amp is dying (for the second time), and it's probably because I drive it too hard. It's a Phoenix Gold Tantrum 300.2, 2-ohm stable (bridged, I'm running subs in parallel). If I understand correctly, my subs each have 150W available to them, which is obviously less than they can handle and just about all the amp can handle. It's started sending pops and squeaks through the subs again, which Phoenix Gold says probably stems from a blown output transistor or something, and they want to charge me $110 to fix it. I figure I can get a decent mono amp to better do the job for not much more than that.

So, any recommendations? My subs are pretty old too, but if they die I will probably replace them with similar size and power because I love these. So, what would you get to drive a pair of high quality 10" 250W 4-ohm subs? I was looking at the Profile AP1000M (500 x 1 @ 2 ohms RMS), but I've never even heard of Profile so I was worried. The obvious choice for these subs would be the JL Audio 500/1, but that seems to be quite a pricey item. I would like to spend less than $300, and ideally less than $200. A while ago someone recommended a JBL 600.1 amp, I think because it's good for the price... Thoughts on this?

I'm not looking for perfect, I'm looking for better than what I have now. =)

Thanks!

-Darwin

[base9se]

Infinity Perfect Sub & a Linear Power amp or Old School Soundstream Reference amp. They're both old school now that I think about it.

[redheadedredtop]

http://www.etronics.com/produc...d=308 People will downtalk these amplifiers, but I have owned four different ones and hooked up two of them to my universties oscilloscope and they put out the power that they say they do. And the distortion levels aren't very high either. That amp would be perfect for you, unless you want to spend another hundred dollars and buy an rf1001bd, IMO.Josh

[Yorb]

gayass nico just lost my long post because it LOGGED ME OUT while i WASNT LOOKING.

okay so i'll be brief this time: thanks for the replies, keep em coming while im at work today.

that lanzar amp is attractively cheap, and very strong for the price if what you say is true.

since i'm running 250W subs in parallel (2 ohm load?) and the amp says "1 x 2000 Watts Max at 4 Ohms Bridged" doesnt that mean each sub will get 500w max? guess i'll just have to be careful not to blow the subs? =)

thanks for the suggestion though its at the top of my consideration list now.

[USsil80]

go with the kicker solo baric series... right now i am in the middle of putting in 4 18'' solo x in a costum wall in a tahoe... but if you get a kicker l7 12 with 800 watts i think that it will sound better and be louder than those poiners

[Rex]

gayass nico just lost my long post because it LOGGED ME OUT while i WASNT LOOKING.

okay so i'll be brief this time: thanks for the replies, keep em coming while im at work today.

that lanzar amp is attractively cheap, and very strong for the price if what you say is true.

since i'm running 250W subs in parallel (2 ohm load?) and the amp says "1 x 2000 Watts Max at 4 Ohms Bridged" doesnt that mean each sub will get 500w max? guess i'll just have to be careful not to blow the subs? =)

thanks for the suggestion though its at the top of my consideration list now.

I used to have the same problems and got REAL fed up with it, until I realized stay away from nicoclub.com and use http://www.nicoclub.com.

Lanzar amps (frmo my experience) are good strong amps, they just have a rep of being a little noisey. Now, that's normally not too much of an issue, if you aren't going after SQ, but with and sub amp, the noise could contribute to killing a sub. Isn't that kind of what happened to your old subs??

I'll put some recommendations together, but keep in mind, shipping's going to add to the price pertty significantly.

Also, check http://www.cbrstereo.com, they always have some good stuff on clearance, right now they have some older PG & Orion amps marked down. Mayeb one of those will fit your needs.

[Rex]

... I was looking at the Profile AP1000M (500 x 1 @ 2 ohms RMS), but I've never even heard of Profile so I was worried ...

Profile is basically flea market stuff, it's just a 1/2 step above Rockwood (it just trying to sound like a brand you know)

Look for used or refurb stuff from Autotek, Hifonics, PG, Orion, etc. They can be brutes.

[DominickJ30]

Sound like a jl500/1 would be a perfect match for those subs. I sold mine 6 months ago for 250 so your budget goal would not be hard to accomplish.

[Yorb]

USsil80 - what's a poiner? =/

Rex - thanks! i didn't even notice it dropped the www. i guess the www TLD and the generic nicoclub.com give different login cookies.

nothing ever happened to my 'old subs'. these are the only subs i've ever had, and i've had them for a good 3 or 4 years with mostly daily use. one has a slight rattle now but i'm not sure if it's a 'bad' problem, it still sounds great so i dont think its blown. can i test it with a voltmeter somehow or would that be unhelpful?

also, thanks for clarifying the Profile brand. =) i will steer clear.

browsing that cbr site, i came across this:http://www.cbrstereo.com/index...D=484says 500w x 1 @ 2 ohms (im assuming thats RMS). thats what i'm looking for, is it not? marked down quite a bit too. thats like, what, $30 more than the lanzar not including shipping. thoughts?

back to work. =)

edit: i just noticed another PG on there, a 500.4...says 250W x 2 4 ohm bridged. someone wanna help me understand the difference between these 2 amps (for my situation)? thanks =P

[Rex]

Actually, there's a big Orion 6002 amp, that's 150x2 at 4 ohms, 300x2 at 2 ohms and 600x1 bridged onto a 2 ohm load. IIRC, it's marked down to less than $200. That's a steal in my book.

Or go with the Hifonics Brutus, which is marked down to $249, thatr's a big nasty amp. Mono Brutus Series Power Amplifier1 x 450 Watts @ 4 Ohms1 x 900 Watts @ 2 Ohms1 x 1500 Watts @ 1 OhmsBass Remote with Blue LED Power On & Diagnostics IndicatorD-Class DesignUltra-Fi MOSFETSZeus EVXP (Exponential Vari-Power Supply)SPC - Simpatico Coil DesignHSMD - Hifonics Surface Mount DesignFully Adjustable Accu-Cross CrossoversPWM MOSFET Power SupplyLine Output for Amplifier Daisy ChainingVariable Bass EqualizationVariable Sub-Sonic Filter4 Gauge Power ConnectorsAdditional High Speed MOSFET Output DevicesMaxi-Fuse

[Yorb]

Thanks rex. That orion does look pretty sweet. As for the brutus, that looks like a lot more power than I need for a pair of 250W subs...or am I missing something? I mean, i realize that you can always adjust the gain and boost and stuff so that you dont blow the subs, but if I can pay $70 less and get the same result.... you see what im saying? =) i'm obviously a layman here, but i really do want to understand. ;D

specifically, ohms. ohms confuse me =( the stats for that orion 6002 say 300x2 2 ohm rating. does that mean i could run my subs in stereo? edit: for example, how can running my 2 4-ohm subs in parallel present only a 2-ohm load to the amp?

thanks again.

[Rex]

The Brutus is overkill without a doubt.

As for how to wire, are your subs single (SVC) voice coil or dual (DVC)? If they're SVC 4 ohm each, it would be nearly impossible to run the amp bridged on a 2 ohm load. So, it's hard to say what the best option would be.

[Yorb]

JL Audio only made 3 iterations of the 10W3 sub: a dual 2-ohm, dual 4-ohm, and dual 6-ohm. So the chances that mine are dual are pretty high. =) And though I can only tell the impedance by taking out the subs and reading the label, I seem to recall them being 4-ohm subs. I checked once before, a long time ago.

In trying to find this info just now, I ran across JL wiring diagrams... If they are indeed 4-ohm subs, I can either present a 1-ohm load in parallel or a 4-ohm load in series (!). I could have sworn they were wired in parallel, but a professional shop did the original installation years ago and I never bothered to check their wiring. They wouldn't have wired to give a 1-ohm load and then paired me with an amp that can only handle 300W x 1 @ 4-ohm bridged, would they? Could this be why my amp is blown? =/

This alarms me somewhat. Tomorrow I will check the labels on my subs and check the wiring.

Could be that I'm just stupid and misinterpreting something though. =)

[Rex]

I think you're pretty close on things. Just need to know what thay are. Then we can figure out how to wire them best for an amp. I'm a big believer in running the sub section of a system in mono.

I think your assumptions were correct, if the subs are dual 2 ohm VC's, but if they are, most people wouldn't refer to them as 4 ohm subs.

A little research and we'll get it figured out.

[Yorb]

The verdict is in, they are indeed 10W3-D4 subs. 4-ohm dual voice coil. And they are wired in series, which according to JL should present a 4-ohm load. And according to PG, my amp can do 300W x 1 at 4 ohms bridged, which makes sense. They are getting about 150W each.

So, if I keep them wired in series I need to find an amp that can do 500W x 1 with a 4-ohm load. Right? The Orion 6002 says 600 x 1 mono, doesn't give a load. You said 2 ohm though, correct? So that probably wouldn't be any better than the amp I have.

The Brutus BX1000D is only $229 at CBR, and it claims 1000W x 1 at 1 ohm. Wouldn't that give me essentially 500W per sub? Overpower, but if I ever want to upgrade my subs it would give me room.

Hmm...

[PoorManQ45]

Or go with the Hifonics Brutus, which is marked down to $249, thatr's a big nasty amp. Mono Brutus Series Power Amplifier1 x 450 Watts @ 4 Ohms1 x 900 Watts @ 2 Ohms1 x 1500 Watts @ 1 OhmsBass Remote with Blue LED Power On & Diagnostics IndicatorD-Class DesignUltra-Fi MOSFETSZeus EVXP (Exponential Vari-Power Supply)SPC - Simpatico Coil DesignHSMD - Hifonics Surface Mount DesignFully Adjustable Accu-Cross CrossoversPWM MOSFET Power SupplyLine Output for Amplifier Daisy ChainingVariable Bass EqualizationVariable Sub-Sonic Filter4 Gauge Power ConnectorsAdditional High Speed MOSFET Output DevicesMaxi-Fuse

HOly carp! Where is that amp for sale that cheap? That would be a pretty amp to power a CV 18" Stroker

[Rex]

HOly carp! Where is that amp for sale that cheap? That would be a pretty amp to power a CV 18" Stroker

Reading all the info would indicate that amp for that price at http://www.cbrstereo.com ... a value in reading .

[PoorManQ45]

Reading all the info would indicate that amp for that price at http://www.cbrstereo.com ... a value in reading .

I ain't never did not learn how to read that ther and I is doin just fine is can bee.

Thank you

[Rex]

The verdict is in, they are indeed 10W3-D4 subs. 4-ohm dual voice coil. And they are wired in series, which according to JL should present a 4-ohm load. And according to PG, my amp can do 300W x 1 at 4 ohms bridged, which makes sense. They are getting about 150W each.

So, if I keep them wired in series I need to find an amp that can do 500W x 1 with a 4-ohm load. Right? The Orion 6002 says 600 x 1 mono, doesn't give a load. You said 2 ohm though, correct? So that probably wouldn't be any better than the amp I have.

The Brutus BX1000D is only $229 at CBR, and it claims 1000W x 1 at 1 ohm. Wouldn't that give me essentially 500W per sub? Overpower, but if I ever want to upgrade my subs it would give me room.

Hmm...

I'm confused .

Are they DVC with a total of 4 ohms, or DVC 4 ohms each?

Not sure it really matters, one would require you to run the amp in mono, the other in stereo. All the wattages that have been discussed in this thread (PG, Orion, Hifonics, quality brands) will more than adequately power the subs.

I have to say, the PG you have (unless one of their entry level) should be enough, I can't imagine what's causing the problem with it. Are you sure it's "bad"?

[Yorb]

I don't know much about impedance and voice coils and stuff, but alls I know is they say 4-ohm, dual voice coil. Four ohms per sub. The manual for the subs has wiring schematics that say for two of the subs, wiring them in series presents a 4-ohm total load, whereas wiring them in parallel presents a 1-ohm total load. Does this make sense?

The sub is not underpowered. Indeed, I have been quite happy with it for the past couple of years. The popping and squeaking is the same sound it made the last time it was blown (my fault that time though, but it was under warranty). I found a loose connection in the wiring today, and it seems to be better now, but I don't think it's entirely gone. I'll double check all the connections in the system maybe tomorrow.

Anyway, the purpose for this thread was to find out what kind of options I had for an amp upgrade instead of getting this one fixed. And although the amp is certainly adequate for my sealed box in an S13 trunk, it's not quite utilizing the full potential of my subs. =) To me, paying $230 for a 1000W replacement amp and having power to spare sounds better than $110 for fixing this PG (edit: and hoping it doesn't die for the 3rd time!).

Also, I considered getting an amp AND fixing this one, and using this one for my interior speakers.

[PoorManQ45]

I don't know much about impedance and voice coils and stuff, but alls I know is they say 4-ohm, dual voice coil. Four ohms per sub. The manual for the subs has wiring schematics that say for two of the subs, wiring them in series presents a 4-ohm total load, whereas wiring them in parallel presents a 1-ohm total load. Does this make sense?

means they have 2Ohm voice coils

[Rex]

All that said, you should be happy with either the Orion or Hifonics.

[Rex]

There's also a Hifonics Zeus ZX4400 for $2094 Channel Zeus Series Amplifier4 x 55 Watts @ 4 Ohms Stereo4 x 110 Watts @ 2 Ohms Stereo2 x 220 Watts @ 4 Ohms BridgedUltra-Fi MOSFETSZeus EVXP (Exponential Vari-Power Supply)SPC - Simpatico Coil DesignHSMD - Hifonics Surface Mount DesignFully Adjustable4 Gauge Power ConnectorsClass A/B OperationMaxi-FuseGold Plated Inputs and Outputs4/2 Ohm StableBass Remote Control With Diagnostic LEDs Included

That way you leave them wired as 4ohm, and run each off a half of the amp bridged??