Sub/amp/box recommendations for Altima sedan

[stupidhead512]

Just purchased my 2008 A/S last week (see sig for info). I've purchased the following items thus far:

Kenwood Excelon DDX-812 (didn't want the navigation)Boston Acoustics Pro 60SBoston Acoustics Pro SL95Rockford Fosgate T600-4

(yes, I am blatantly ripping off / following / borrowing / whatever Doc's Krazy install...thanks Doc!)

I am now at the stage of deciding on a subwoofer(s) and amp(s). I really do like the box built by Midget's located here and would like to build something similar but do it on both sides of the trunk:

http://forums.altimas.org/zerothread/351283

My questions are as follows:

1. Is the Fosgate T212D4 too big for that enclosure? Would the T210D4 be a better choice?

2. If I do put an enclosure similar to Midget's on either side of the trunk, will that leave me enough room to put a handful of bags and continue having usable trunk space?

3. Which amp would be appropriate for the dual 12s or dual 10s? Can a single mono amp (e.g. Fosgate T1500-1bd) push two subs if properly wired or would I need to go with two amps?

4. Am I being completely ridiculous with this build?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and constructive criticism.

Cheers. B

[rjdmmfl1]

Just purchased my 2008 A/S last week (see sig for info). I've purchased the following items thus far:

Kenwood Excelon DDX-812 (didn't want the navigation)Boston Acoustics Pro 60SBoston Acoustics Pro SL95Rockford Fosgate T600-4

(yes, I am blatantly ripping off / following / borrowing / whatever Doc's Krazy install...thanks Doc!)

I am now at the stage of deciding on a subwoofer(s) and amp(s). I really do like the box built by Midget's located here and would like to build something similar but do it on both sides of the trunk:

http://forums.altimas.org/zerothread/351283

My questions are as follows:

1. Is the Fosgate T212D4 too big for that enclosure? Would the T210D4 be a better choice?

2. If I do put an enclosure similar to Midget's on either side of the trunk, will that leave me enough room to put a handful of bags and continue having usable trunk space?

3. Which amp would be appropriate for the dual 12s or dual 10s? Can a single mono amp (e.g. Fosgate T1500-1bd) push two subs if properly wired or would I need to go with two amps?

4. Am I being completely ridiculous with this build?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and constructive criticism.

Cheers. B

OK, as far as my system... I have been thoroughly happy with the highs from the Boston pro 60's... not so much the midbass.. I will soon be replacing my rear 6x9's , the SL 95's can't handle the 120 RMS watts I'm throwing at them when icrank up the volume at certain crossover points

You absolutely can NOt put a T2 inside the box that midgets built.. the sub would blow up! The T212D4 needs 3 cu ft of space ported... midget's box is like 1-1.2 cu ft

If you want to go with something that small, I say go with two 12" Jl audio W6's or W3's, depending on how much bass you want.... even 2 x Rockford p3's in a sealed box would beat like all hell with a T1500-1bd amp

The t15001bd amp will push 2 x Rockford T1's, or p3's. or it will push 2 x JL audio W6's or W3's... and it will pound the hell out of em!

hope this helps... and its cool, they say imitation is the best form of flattery!

[stupidhead512]

OK, as far as my system... I have been thoroughly happy with the highs from the Boston pro 60's... not so much the midbass.. I will soon be replacing my rear 6x9's , the SL 95's can't handle the 120 RMS watts I'm throwing at them when icrank up the volume at certain crossover points

You absolutely can NOt put a T2 inside the box that midgets built.. the sub would blow up! The T212D4 needs 3 cu ft of space ported... midget's box is like 1-1.2 cu ft

If you want to go with something that small, I say go with two 12" Jl audio W6's or W3's, depending on how much bass you want.... even 2 x Rockford p3's in a sealed box would beat like all hell with a T1500-1bd amp

The t15001bd amp will push 2 x Rockford T1's, or p3's. or it will push 2 x JL audio W6's or W3's... and it will pound the hell out of em!

hope this helps... and its cool, they say imitation is the best form of flattery!

That is exactly what I was thinking when I decided to copy your system!

I took another look at the BA Pro 60s and noticed the tweeter can actually mount on the woofer similar to standard coax speakers. How is the mid-bass from the BA Pro 60s? More to the point, instead of the SL95s in the rear deck, what about just mounting another set of Pro 60s? What were you considering as a replacement? I haven't really started reading about car audio again until the last couple of weeks so you guys and gals here on this forum have a lot more info than I do!

Thanks again for the feedback.B

[AppleBonker]

I took another look at the BA Pro 60s and noticed the tweeter can actually mount on the woofer similar to standard coax speakers. How is the mid-bass from the BA Pro 60s? More to the point, instead of the SL95s in the rear deck, what about just mounting another set of Pro 60s? What were you considering as a replacement? I haven't really started reading about car audio again until the last couple of weeks so you guys and gals here on this forum have a lot more info than I do!

Thanks again for the feedback.B

IMHO, drop the rear fill. You can put more money into the front speakers if you avoid spending money on the rears. I've got 6x9's in my rear deck, but I will only use them with a surround sound source. To be perfectly honest, I've had the rears running for maybe 12 hours total (11 of that being when I didn't have the fronts installed yet). Put it this way, I spent ~$800 on my front soundstage, why would I make the whole car sound worse by running that along with $150 rears (hell, even if I spent $400 on the rears)?

[rjdmmfl1]

IMHO, drop the rear fill. You can put more money into the front speakers if you avoid spending money on the rears. I've got 6x9's in my rear deck, but I will only use them with a surround sound source. To be perfectly honest, I've had the rears running for maybe 12 hours total (11 of that being when I didn't have the fronts installed yet). Put it this way, I spent ~$800 on my front soundstage, why would I make the whole car sound worse by running that along with $150 rears (hell, even if I spent $400 on the rears)?

Well, the DNX-8120 has true Dolby digital 5.1 surround sound... your system will sound incomplete without the rears, no matter how much you put into the front soundstage

Also, no matter how good the front 6.5" midbass are, no 6.5" could ever replace the midbass that a comparable 6x9" would produce

That is exactly what I was thinking when I decided to copy your system!

I took another look at the BA Pro 60s and noticed the tweeter can actually mount on the woofer similar to standard coax speakers. How is the mid-bass from the BA Pro 60s? More to the point, instead of the SL95s in the rear deck, what about just mounting another set of Pro 60s? What were you considering as a replacement? I haven't really started reading about car audio again until the last couple of weeks so you guys and gals here on this forum have a lot more info than I do!

Thanks again for the feedback.B

The mid bass in the pro-60's is poor... I'm very disappointed... I only have about 150 watts going to them, and I can hear that "blah" sund when i bang them hard... the only way I can get rid of that is to jack the crossover up to the point that U hear very little to no midbass

I don't know what I'm gonna replace my rear 6x9's with.. I'm looking for something that can handle 100 watts RMS... I'm thinking maybe Infiniti Kappa 2 ways (the newer ones WITHOUT the neodynium magnet

[stupidhead512]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. I think I'll stick with what I bought and go for the subs Doc recommended.

Again, thanks!B

[AppleBonker]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. I think I'll stick with what I bought and go for the subs Doc recommended.

Again, thanks!B

Wow, reading>me. I just noticed you already purchased all the interior speakers. Don't know what I was thinking earlier. Which subs are you getting that Doc recommended? There weer a few he mentioned in that post.

[AppleBonker]

Well, the DNX-8120 has true Dolby digital 5.1 surround sound... your system will sound incomplete without the rears, no matter how much you put into the front soundstage

Also, no matter how good the front 6.5" midbass are, no 6.5" could ever replace the midbass that a comparable 6x9" would produce

Let's see how many threads we can jack to have discussions... Like you said, it should be ok as long as we try to help the OP first

I think on this one we may have to agree to disagree. I still think that the only need for rear fill is when listening to 5.1 material (which probably doesn't happen too much in the car). Also, I don't think any 6x9 can keep up with the higher end 6.5s. Most manufacturers don't put high end quality into the 6x9 drivers. In fact, what is the most expensive 6x9 out there? Also, if 6x9's were better at producing midbass, why don't they appear in more (actually, any) home theater setups? Fact is, my 6.5s hit really clean down to about 50 Hz (although I currently have them crossed at 63). I don't know that I'd ever be able to find a 6x9 that can do that (they may be rated by crutchfield or something to 39Hz, but I'd want to see a freq. response curve to believe that it can do without fall off or distortion).

http://dynaudio.com/eng/auto/esotar/tech_650.htm

Check out that link for some specs on one of (if not the) best 6.5 drivers available today. Mind you, that thing has a suggested retail price of $500 per (speaker that is, not pair), but it'll give you an idea.

Also, running 6x9's in the rear deck while listening to stereo music will draw the soundstage rearward. With a 2-channel source, this is definitely not a good thing. No matter how well you can tune a setup, it is impossible to have four speakers image correctly in a car. There are just too many surfaces for sound waves to reflect off of. Again, you have every right to disagree, as I didn't believe this for the longest time. A friend convinced me to listen without rear fill for 2 weeks (and tune the setup accordingly). Once the two weeks were finished, I tried to add rear fill back and there was no way I could get the system to sound correct. I've avoided rear fill ever since (again, unless I'm listening to a multichannel source).

[rjdmmfl1]

Let's see how many threads we can jack to have discussions... Like you said, it should be ok as long as we try to help the OP first

I think on this one we may have to agree to disagree. I still think that the only need for rear fill is when listening to 5.1 material (which probably doesn't happen too much in the car). Also, I don't think any 6x9 can keep up with the higher end 6.5s. Most manufacturers don't put high end quality into the 6x9 drivers. In fact, what is the most expensive 6x9 out there? Also, if 6x9's were better at producing midbass, why don't they appear in more (actually, any) home theater setups? Fact is, my 6.5s hit really clean down to about 50 Hz (although I currently have them crossed at 63). I don't know that I'd ever be able to find a 6x9 that can do that (they may be rated by crutchfield or something to 39Hz, but I'd want to see a freq. response curve to believe that it can do without fall off or distortion).

http://dynaudio.com/eng/auto/esotar/tech_650.htm

Check out that link for some specs on one of (if not the) best 6.5 drivers available today. Mind you, that thing has a suggested retail price of $500 per (speaker that is, not pair), but it'll give you an idea.

Also, running 6x9's in the rear deck while listening to stereo music will draw the soundstage rearward. With a 2-channel source, this is definitely not a good thing. No matter how well you can tune a setup, it is impossible to have four speakers image correctly in a car. There are just too many surfaces for sound waves to reflect off of. Again, you have every right to disagree, as I didn't believe this for the longest time. A friend convinced me to listen without rear fill for 2 weeks (and tune the setup accordingly). Once the two weeks were finished, I tried to add rear fill back and there was no way I could get the system to sound correct. I've avoided rear fill ever since (again, unless I'm listening to a multichannel source).

no, I don't think i disagree... I tried to qualify my statements... regarding having a rear sound stage, as I mentioned, he DNX has Dolby 5.1... and I watch hella movies in my car and can really hear the difference. For folks that primarily listen to CD's and don't watch alot of movies, then iI would concede you could be correct, only because i haven't done enough comparisons to completely refute it.

Regarding 6x9's I stated "

no 6.5" could ever replace the midbass that a comparable 6x9" would produce

key word beingg comparable.. meaning if you could find a 6x9" driver comprable to some of the higher end 6.6" drivers, then the 6x9" driver would win out. The problem, I'm finding is that , as you stated, there may not be any high end 6x9's comparable to the top 6.5" drivers.

regardless, when listening to a 5.1 movie, you will definately have "holes" in your audio. And, IMO, movies should only be listened to in 5.1 or 7.1 to accurately reproduce the movie theatre sound.

In this respect, I would say this is where your setup falls short... when you listen to movies in my car, it sounds nothing short of PERFECT... music, no so much yet, but I'm getting there! I think I will save up for another few months... sell my Boston Equipment, and go with some FOCAL Utopias all around

[AppleBonker]

no, I don't think i disagree...

key word being comparable.. meaning if you could find a 6x9" driver comprable to some of the higher end 6.6" drivers,

In this respect, I would say this is where your setup falls short... when you listen to movies in my car, it sounds nothing short of PERFECT... music, no so much yet, but I'm getting there! I think I will save up for another few months... sell my Boston Equipment, and go with some FOCAL Utopias all around

My bad. Glad we more or less agree on this one then.

Yeah, there is the problem. No one makes high quality 6x9's. The highest of audio enthusiasts doesn't use the car for movie watching, therefore would never need rear fill.

BTW, I do have rear fill on mine, so I was by no means saying to leave it out (under the condition that movies or multichannel audio will be a listening staple in the vehicle). My home theater, however, sounds much better for surround sound than my car ever will, regardless of how much money I throw at the car.

Stupidhead,You planning on using the setup for movies, etc?

[stupidhead512]

I think I will save up for another few months... sell my Boston Equipment, and go with some FOCAL Utopias all around

OK, so I had to Google Focal Utopia...you are out of your mind! I thought what I was spending on the BA/Fosgate stuff was ridiculous.

Stupidhead,You planning on using the setup for movies, etc?

I'm going to use it for both music and movies. And yeah, I already have the interior speakers.

Which subs are you getting that Doc recommended? There weer a few he mentioned in that post.

I'm going to go with two of the P3D212s (one on either side of the trunk) along with the T1500-1bd amplifier. I figure I'll wire them up for a 2 ohm load so that each one will get 500W RMS each (which is their rated RMS with a max of 1000W). Does that sound about right?

Thanks again.B

[stupidhead512]

OK guys, I have another couple of questions.

1) With the gear I'm putting in my car, should I get some sound deadening (dampening?) material like Dynamat, B-Quiet, etc., for the trunk, doors, even the floors? Also, how easy or difficult is it to mess that installation up? The installer I'm paying to do this seems pretty competent but I really don't want to mess up my car! If I do need to add this material (which I think you guys will probably recommend I do), about how many square feet do I need to cover the doors, trunk, and floors? I wouldn't even know where to begin with regard to figuring that number out!

2) Will I need to upgrade anything electrically? I noticed Doc upgraded to a Kinetix 1800 battery. Would this be necessary for my setup? I'm not adding all the monitors and other goodies but I don't want to be on the very edge of what my electrical system can support. Does the Kinetix get installed in place of the standard battery or does it get installed in addition to? Furthermore, do I need to upgrade the ground on the car?

Again, many thanks for all of your help while I figure this out and build a (hopefully) kick *** system on a fairly decent budget.

[rjdmmfl1]

OK guys, I have another couple of questions.

1) With the gear I'm putting in my car, should I get some sound deadening (dampening?) material like Dynamat, B-Quiet, etc., for the trunk, doors, even the floors? Also, how easy or difficult is it to mess that installation up? The installer I'm paying to do this seems pretty competent but I really don't want to mess up my car! If I do need to add this material (which I think you guys will probably recommend I do), about how many square feet do I need to cover the doors, trunk, and floors? I wouldn't even know where to begin with regard to figuring that number out!

2) Will I need to upgrade anything electrically? I noticed Doc upgraded to a Kinetix 1800 battery. Would this be necessary for my setup? I'm not adding all the monitors and other goodies but I don't want to be on the very edge of what my electrical system can support. Does the Kinetix get installed in place of the standard battery or does it get installed in addition to? Furthermore, do I need to upgrade the ground on the car?

Again, many thanks for all of your help while I figure this out and build a (hopefully) kick *** system on a fairly decent budget.

POWEROK, everything you can do to increase the power to your system can only help!

Our cars already have pretty decent alternators (115 Amp for the 2.5 and 130 Amp for the 3.5)

Upgrading the power setup is pretty standard practice for high end systems. Upgraded power to alternator, upgraded engine gorund to chasis.. upgraded battery begatove to chasis...while you're at it, a hyper grounding kit from sentient by design couldn't hurt

Yes, you shuold upgrade your factory battery, I definately suggest the kinetik 1800 ... this is a deep discharge battery designed for audio systems or anything in the car that demands a lot of power (hydraulics, power wenches, etc.)

I would also suggest something like a bat cap or a kinetik 600 for the trunk as well!

SOUND DEADENER

This is an absolute must! People think if you can hear a car's syetm from the outside, then it must be booming... uhh WRONG!!! The more you hear a car's audio system when the doors are closed, that means the more sound that's escaping the inside of the car! The loudest car I've ever been in was Al&Ed's sound system that had like 50,000 watts of power going to it... and when the music is on in that van, you can't hear a thing when you're standing outside it right next to it. That's what 5 layers of sound deadener can do for you!

You don't need 5 layers, one layer of quality stuff is good, 2 layers is absolute heaven on wheels. Best bang for the buck is second skin audio. I have B-Quiet ultimate which is as good as Dynamat Extreme, but costs much less and is easier to apply! That's ties into your other question, they are all pretty easy to apply, but I found B-Quiet Ultimate to be much "sticker" than Dynamat Extreme and easier to apply! And regarding how much you will need, I would say 150 - 200sq ft for trunk, doors, floors, & rear quarter panels!

[AppleBonker]

Upgrading the power setup is pretty standard practice for high end systems. Upgraded power to alternator, upgraded engine gorund to chasis.. upgraded battery begatove to chasis...while you're at it, a hyper grounding kit from sentient by design couldn't hurt

Yes, you shuold upgrade your factory battery, I definately suggest the kinetik 1800 ... this is a deep discharge battery designed for audio systems or anything in the car that demands a lot of power (hydraulics, power wenches, etc.)

I would also suggest something like a bat cap or a kinetik 600 for the trunk as well!

SOUND DEADENER

This is an absolute must! People think if you can hear a car's syetm from the outside, then it must be booming... uhh WRONG!!! The more you hear a car's audio system when the doors are closed, that means the more sound that's escaping the inside of the car! The loudest car I've ever been in was Al&Ed's sound system that had like 50,000 watts of power going to it... and when the music is on in that van, you can't hear a thing when you're standing outside it right next to it. That's what 5 layers of sound deadener can do for you!

You don't need 5 layers, one layer of quality stuff is good, 2 layers is absolute heaven on wheels. Best bang for the buck is second skin audio. I have B-Quiet ultimate which is as good as Dynamat Extreme, but costs much less and is easier to apply! That's ties into your other question, they are all pretty easy to apply, but I found B-Quiet Ultimate to be much "sticker" than Dynamat Extreme and easier to apply! And regarding how much you will need, I would say 150 - 200sq ft for trunk, doors, floors, & rear quarter panels!

An aftermarket alternator will probably not be necessary. I haven't upgraded mine yet, and I'm definitely pulling more power than most will out of their Altimas. I do, however, have a Kinetik battery in my trunk. I would recommend them as well. They are a bit pricey, but function well. Check eBay or something to see if you can get a better deal. Doc, any chance you can post pics of the Kinetik under your hood? The posts are on the opposite side of the battery from stock. How did you get everything connected?

As far as sound deadener goes, I think Doc is right on. I've used a ton of Second Skin Audio Damplifier in my day. I've been very happy with the results, and the price. Far better than Dynamat for sure. I've also heard good things about B-Quiet, although I never have used it myself. 150 square feet would be the absolute minimum to do the coupe well. As Doc mentioned, 200 square feet would probably be better. It's always good to have a bit left over. That way, if the trunk still rattles too much, you can throw an extra layer down. Ordering small quantities is not that cost effective due to the shipping charges. For the record, I probably used about 180 square feet on my whole car, but there are some spots I'm going to add more (trunk lid for sure). I think my trunk alone took a bit over 50 square feet.

[rjdmmfl1]

An aftermarket alternator will probably not be necessary. I haven't upgraded mine yet, and I'm definitely pulling more power than most will out of their Altimas. I do, however, have a Kinetik battery in my trunk. I would recommend them as well. They are a bit pricey, but function well. Check eBay or something to see if you can get a better deal. Doc, any chance you can post pics of the Kinetik under your hood? The posts are on the opposite side of the battery from stock. How did you get everything connected?

As far as sound deadener goes, I think Doc is right on. I've used a ton of Second Skin Audio Damplifier in my day. I've been very happy with the results, and the price. Far better than Dynamat for sure. I've also heard good things about B-Quiet, although I never have used it myself. 150 square feet would be the absolute minimum to do the coupe well. As Doc mentioned, 200 square feet would probably be better. It's always good to have a bit left over. That way, if the trunk still rattles too much, you can throw an extra layer down. Ordering small quantities is not that cost effective due to the shipping charges. For the record, I probably used about 180 square feet on my whole car, but there are some spots I'm going to add more (trunk lid for sure). I think my trunk alone took a bit over 50 square feet.

Sure, no problem about the pics... basically, with the neative, I cut off the connection to the terminal, extended it using 4 gague wire, and attached it, and another 0 gauge wire to a streetwires battery terminal. For the power, I folded up the fuse panel and I have it at an angle a bit to the side... I know, sounds wierd, I'll get pics up ASAP! What I plan to do to make the install cleaner is get a 4 way midi fuse distribution block (to replace the factory fuse block) and a seperate ANL fuse holder with a 250 amp fuse to go between the battery and the alternator (just like the factory block has) This will allow a much cleaner install!

[bigpapi1919]

i heard some people talking about jl w6's i was thinking about putting in a 13.5" jl w7 and the jl 1000/1 amp any thoughts on that?

[rjdmmfl1]

i heard some people talking about jl w6's i was thinking about putting in a 13.5" jl w7 and the jl 1000/1 amp any thoughts on that?

quote from a local JL audio rep " yeah, our subs are loud, but they're sloppy... but hey, people keep over paying for them, so we keep selling them"

of course he knew I wasn't in the market for one and the discussion happened with the sales manager, NOT with a customer present...

Rockford's T2 handles and produces more power, and its cleaner than a comparable JL W7! But only a real audiophile that has listened and compared to the two can really tell the difference! Don't get me wrong, I think JL sells good stuff, and was shocked to hear this from a JL rep.. of course he would never admit or state this to the average customer, but I'm not the average customer.... IMO, JL is loud, just not as clean as it could be

For me, Rockford T1 and T2's are great... but I'm not a big fan of their punch series!

[bigpapi1919]

ok that sounds good!!! thanks for the info

[bigpapi1919]

what about amp wise what would you use to power it? the t2 in a 15"

[stupidhead512]

what about amp wise what would you use to power it? the t2 in a 15"

According to the Doc's install:

Fosgate T1500-1bd

[rjdmmfl1]

what about amp wise what would you use to power it? the t2 in a 15"

yeah, for the T2 15", the T1500-1BD Rockford Amp would be needed...

[bigpapi1919]

thanks doc for all the advice!!!!