Stupid valve shim question

[1WheelWonder]

I am currently putting my built motor back together and went to check the specs on my shim to cam clearence ( according to Joel07 from Ka-t.org it should be .0138 cold on the intake side and .0148 cold on the exhaust side). I figured they would be all out of wack because I accidently flipped my head upside down scattering the order of the shims while taking it to the machine shop for work. Well when it came back I just through them back in there in no particular order and checked the specs, netting me 4 out of 16 within Joel07's specs. One of them is .004, two of them are .005, four of them are .006, three are .007, one .008, and one .010. My problem is that I really don't know what I need to do to bring them back to spec, I know shims are available for purchase but i'm not certain on how to go about selecting the right ones. I would assume I could subtract say .004 from .0148 and get .0108, which should be the shim size I need, would this be the correct way to do it, where could I get shims, and do they have all the sizes I need? I apologize if this question is worded incorrectly, this is boggling my mind. Any help will be appreciated.

[rotorimp]

Hello--My machine shop did the same thing--When they cut the seat and valve they did not take any off the stem. Your subtraction is right but ordering all new shims is mucho dinero$$$$$$$$$$$ take the head back to the machine shop and see if they will get the numbers in the ball park

[DammitBobby]

Intake cold .012 .015In .31 .39mmExhaust cold .013 .016In .33 .41mm

I had the same stupid problem 5 of mine fell out. I bought a digital caliber from Harborfreight for 15 bucks. Measure your shims thickness and move them around to get the proper clearance. They cost around 12 bucks a piece! I used my old head shims to get mine with in specs. Actually I ended up final .406mm for both intake and exhaust. I know it is off but it is not as much as it was when I started .508mm

[1WheelWonder]

Thanks guys.

[j-z]

haaaaaaaa... i did the same fuking thing . i flipped my head over to look at the faces of the valves and heard some metal noises. i already knew what it was and started yelling like a mofo. i just threw mine back in no order. car runs good, but im going to get it all even now. how in the hell do you get the shims out with the cams still in place? i already have a harbor freight digital caliper, and a feeler gauge. this will be a upcoming weekend project just for piece of mind. def need a calculator for this lol.

[j-z]

ok i just found the section in my fsm on valve adjustment. i think you can get the shims out with just a small flathead and a magnet. it shows some special tools to turn the camshaft and another to hold the lifter (bucket) in place while removing. im guessing you can just turn the crank to get desired postion and use something to keep the bucket in place. anyone else done this with normal tools while the cams are still in place? i also found out that it says the shim thickess on the back side in mm, so you dont need a caliper at all. unless thats the new ones that come stamped with the thickness which is what it looks like because it says to measure your old ones. guess you still need a caliper...

[1WheelWonder]

My shims had no indication of size stamped on them, hmmm. Yeah these shims blow big ones. I ordered the digital caliper from Harborfreight then come to find out there is a HarborFreight store in the next town over like 20 miles away, oh well. Keep me updated J-Z on your shim progress.

[j-z]

yeah i believe its the new shims that only come stamped. are you doing yours with the motor in the car and the cams in place? i prob wont get to doing mine till this weekend or the next. i have a harbor freight store like 15 mins away from me. got my stand and hoist from there too.

[1WheelWonder]

My motor is out of the car, which should make this easier on me, the cams are already out. In your case it should be no biggy removing them with the cams in, like you said the small screwdriver and magnetic tool will work. I really want to get past this damn shim obstacle out of the way so I can get this beast up and running.

[DammitBobby]

Yea, you don`t need special tools. Loosen all your cap bolts an turn the cam so it is no pressing on the shim. Then use a small screw driver to remove the shim from the cam bucket.

[j-z]

i dont think im gonna loosen the caps. in the fsm it has a tool that pushes down on the bucket so you can pull the shim out. ill probably rig something up to do that. im gonna try and do mine tomorrow.

[j-z]

well i did mine today. not bad as i thought it was going to be. i havent done that much math since college LOL. for starters, everything was pretty well in spec how i just threw them in there. there were like 3 out of spec. i just ended up loosening the cam caps and voila the cams lift right up. stick a little flat head in there to pop off the shim and use a magnet to pull it all the way out. measured all of them and it was kinda like playing a puzzle to get the best configuration possible. i ended up getting them all within .05mm of joel07 numbers except one was .06mm off. not hard to do at all except my back is killing me now. grrrr... shoulda done it while the motor was on the stand

[1WheelWonder]

I am still waiting on Harborfreight to deliver my digital caliper so I can finish the head and put this damn engine back together, I am getting anxious.

[1WheelWonder]

Well my digital calipers finally arrived and I measured all the shims on the valves that had out of wack clearances. If any of you mathematical wiz kids can lend a homie a hand ( I suck at math, got all that crap in college out of the way quick) i would be forever grateful.

Intake sidevalve #1 = .006 valve clearance .094 shim thickness #2 = .006 .093 #3 = OK OK #4 = OK OK #5 = .006 .091 #6 = .010 .087 #7 = .005 .094 #8 = .008 .092Exhaust SideValve #1 = .006 valve clearance .091 shim thickness #2 = .005 .093 #3 = OK OK #4 = .007 .091 #5 = .004 .088 #6 = .007 .093 #7 = OK OK #8 = .007 .087

[j-z]

heres how i did mine. yeah, i know, it made my head hurt too. i had all my shims lined up in order they were taken out on a piece of paper. i wrote on each shim what they measured out to be in mm. i then wrote on the paper what shim size i needed to make my tolerance of what joel07 wrote, but in mm. now that i had each shim labeled what they measured i could just move them around like a jigsaw puzzle to get within the tolereance of +- .05mm. took me a while of just sitting there staring at everything to get the best outcome. thats the only way you can do it with using the shims you already have. theres no formula thats tells you to place which one where. have fun! LOL

[1WheelWonder]

I got it all figured out, but I need to order 9 of the shims probally due to valve and head work, so if someone could point me towards an online store that sells them other than my local Nissan dealership I would greatly appreciate it, thanks.

[DammitBobby]

Ouch, that is going to cost you over 12 bucks a shim. I couldn`t find anybody else who sells shims. You might be better off going to a local junk yard and pulling shims yourself from a head now that you know what size you need. I used shims off my old head. Let me know what sizes you need I can check to see if I have any.

[1WheelWonder]

Thanks BobbyI need 2-2.04 or .0801-2.08 or .0813-2.14 or .0841-2.18 or .0851-2.20 or .0861-2.24 or .088I've got 9 shims that measure .091-.094 if anyone wants to swap, let me know guys.

[DammitBobby]

Ok I measured what I had let me know what you want to do.

4 .0865 .0852 .0831 .0821 .0871 .088

You know I didn`t get mine exact. I actually had a few off but I decided it was closer then what it was before and it ran fine.

[1WheelWonder]

You the man Bobby, just let me no what you want for them, I'll give my address and stuff.

I'll take4-.085s1-.0861-.0881-.0821-.083My email is [email protected]

Modified by 1WheelWonder at 2:54 PM 9/3/2006
Modified by 1WheelWonder at 3:50 PM 9/3/2006

[1WheelWonder]

Hey Robert, Aol mail blows and wont let me send you any mail from work, so I will try from my mothers house, (I suck and don't have the Internet at home).

[DammitBobby]

No problem when you get me the info I will hopefully find a box to ship them in.

[slipnfall]

PS - http://www.midwaypartsteam.com sells the shims at around $9/ea IIRC. It's only a few bux cheaper, but if you need 16(unlikely) it adds up.

Plus I also find something else to buy that should really be OEM(ie cap, rotor, etc)

[Houmack]

Sorry to bring this one back up. But I did the same thing as you guys on my SR20DET. I flipped the head and came out the shims. I didn't know about shim sizes till after. Unlike the KA, i Only have 8 Shims. 4 on each side. The other 8's are Rocker Arm Guides, only in one size.

How do you guys measure the clearance to know which shim goes where? Do you use a feeler gauge? My FSM says to use some Install tool or something like that. I have no idea where to get this gauge.

Any help would be great!

Cheers.