Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

The web's first forum dedicated to Nissan's groundbreaking electric car, the Nissan Leaf.
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relytgerg
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Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby relytgerg » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:05 am

In the first three days of taking U.S. reservations, Nissan has already racked up a total of 6,635. (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/04/st ... ssan-leaf/)

In Japan, the number is 3,754. (http://www.automotiveworld.com/news/oem ... -754-units)

This means about 10,400 cars have been reserved, with U.S. reservations still not done, from what I've heard. This is over 20% of the planned 50,000 cars to be produced for the first year.

Glad I got in line early.


toovo1985
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby toovo1985 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:34 am

Seems that reservations are doing well...wouldn't expect them to be so much in the first days. seems like Nissan has done a good work promoting the leaf. Hope the results can be equally successfull :D

totsubo
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby totsubo » Thu May 13, 2010 9:11 am

Reserved one.

toovo1985
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby toovo1985 » Fri May 14, 2010 6:55 am

May I ask what were the reasons that brought you to that decision? Do you think that it will be a good investment as electric mobility still has much to develop? Please don't interpret me wrong, I don't think it was a bad decision. Just wondering what made you reserve one.

Thanks ;)

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby zsozso » Fri May 14, 2010 7:03 am

I would love to reserve one, but they do not accept reservations from Canada. :( :poke:
As for reasons:

1. Zero emissions
2. Zero CO2 -- not counted as "emission" officially, but also very harmful for the environment
3. Near--zero maintenance, very few moving mechanical parts to wear off and break down compared to ICE
4. Fractional operating cost
5. Low noise level
6. Clean, not only in terms of air pollution, but also no oil dripping

totsubo
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby totsubo » Fri May 14, 2010 11:29 am

It is new and I am an early adopter of new technology.

drebin893
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby drebin893 » Fri May 14, 2010 12:13 pm

Very cool car if you have a long commute every day but are sure you'd have enough juice to make the whole commute round trip without a charge - or if you live in the city and it isn't too spread out. This car will sell like wildfire in metro areas.

Anthonysflying
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby Anthonysflying » Fri May 14, 2010 12:49 pm

zsozso wrote:I would love to reserve one, but they do not accept reservations from Canada. :( :poke:
As for reasons:

1. Zero emissions
2. Zero CO2 -- not counted as "emission" officially, but also very harmful for the environment
3. Near--zero maintenance, very few moving mechanical parts to wear off and break down compared to ICE
4. Fractional operating cost
5. Low noise level
6. Clean, not only in terms of air pollution, but also no oil dripping
I would love to have a leaf mostly because i don't pay for electricity. The new technology is really intriguing and i have faith in quality Nissan engineering. besides my complete lack of funds to buy a new car there are a few things to think about.

The environment really has nothing to do with it. The car is charged from a power plant. find out what its burning. emitting, dumping etc. Take a look at the fabrication of the car as well. Making batteries is anything but clean. The emissions eliminated by a Prius are offset by the creation of the car itself, i don't have any specific info on the Leaf but it is worth thinking about.

drebin893
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby drebin893 » Fri May 14, 2010 2:05 pm

Good point about manufacturing emissions, Anthony. I just wonder what they cost to be charged nightly. Depending on where one lives, the cost could vary a good bit when you get down to dollars and cents.

zsozso
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby zsozso » Mon May 17, 2010 9:38 am

Anthony,
You are certainly right about the fact that driving a Leaf still causes some emissions in the form of producing the electricity and the car. From a purist point of view, no form of transportation can be achieved without emission: even if you walk, you are burning energy, exhaling CO2, and your food where you get the energy was produced and transported causing significant emissions.

On the other hand, if you are trying to justify driving a gasoline SUV over a Leaf and/or claiming they cause the same amount of emission and environmental damage, then I have to strongly disagree:

1. While the majority of electrical energy today is produced by burning fossil fuels (mostly coal), we do have technology to produce electricity in cleaner ways, such as hydro, wind, solar and even nuclear power plants. I hope the coal burning power plants will be gradually phased out.

2. If you compare emissions during electricity production to driving gasoline ICE cars, you have to consider not only the emission produced by the car directly when burning the gasoline, but also the emissions generated during the production and transportation of gasoline. E.g. gasoline production from the Alberta tar-sands produces 3X the emission produced by actually burning the gasoline. Considering all the pollution from production and transportation as well as use, the electric car comes out much cleaner even if the electricity is produced by burning coal.

3. Emission during car production also applies to ICE cars, so again I do not see how that can be more environment friendly option than an electric car.

rtdengr
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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby rtdengr » Fri May 21, 2010 11:26 pm

The nice part of powering cars with electricity is that pollution is easier to control at a large power plant than it is in individual car tail pipes. We can continue to improve the power plants or even change the method of generation and not need to make any changes to the car.

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby Anthonysflying » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:02 pm

Sorry i don't want to thread jack. I'm sure there is something in the politics section. :mike

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby float_6969 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:38 pm

Another thing to consider is that as technologies improve, the energy needed to charge your EV may be able to be captured from your own wind/solar generators and stored at your home for use in charging your EV. This would greatly diminished the demand placed on the electrical grid and further reduce any pollutants from fossil burning electric generation plants.

As others have stated as well, when you're comparing pollution in a global sense, EV's will always produce less emissions. The production and transport of gasoline is VERY dirty process.

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby Bubs daddy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:35 pm

The production and transport of gasoline is VERY dirty process.
As is all the mining of the copper it's going to take for those electric vehicles.

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby Bubs daddy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:10 pm

Today's ICE cars are 99+% clean. So unless this Leaf is charged by a waterwheel generator, windmill or somesuch, it emits pollutants, just not in the same way. The materials to build this vehicle come from somewhere, which require gasoline and diesel powered vehicles to perform these operations. These vehicles (EV's) will require more elements such as copper than ICE cars. Ever see a copper mine? Dusty, dirty, not to mention the land and mountains it lays waste to.

I'm sure electric vehicle's time may come but I'm not spending $30,000 or more on a car with a 100 mile range. You can take your pick of really nice cars in this price range.

I just went on an 800 mile trip. 5 minutes to fill up and another 400 mile range.

As far as power generation, ever seen a solar array? Oh, they're lovely. Acre upon acre of panels displacing the open land. They'll be a lot of new NIMBY's when these things start encroaching neighborhoods.

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby float_6969 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:04 pm

Wait, you're bitching about a solar array in the desert? Isn't that the best place for them? It's not like they're clearing out the redwood forests to put them in. I suppose you don't like the look of wind turbines or hydro-electric dams either? But power plants belching pollutants into the atmosphere is acceptable?

Just my personal preference, but I'll take wind turbines and solar arrays.

As for the mines, the iron and aluminum mines that they get the material for today's ICE's from don't look any different, so what's you're point?

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby Bubs daddy » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:04 pm

Sure, the desert is a great place for it unless, you happen to live in the desert valley. Or live on a reservation in the desert. How about you put those panels on your front lawn?

Solar arrays aren't going to generate enough electricity to power most grids. So your answer is to mine more copper for cars that have a quarter of the range of ICE's and use more electricity that solar can't provide. Nuclear is far better than any of the options right now.

But my point is, an electrical car is anything but green. The self righteous types who seem to think that buying an electrical car suddenly makes them think they're saving the environment is laughable. Wanna go green? Turn off your A/C. Start walking or bicycling everywhere. Stop going to Disneyworld and flying to vacations. Only eat enough food to sustain yourself.

It's alternative propulsion. But it ain't green. How about light brown. ;)

Hey, someone wants to spend $30,000 for a car that has a maximum range of 100 miles, be my guest. Technologically, I'm impressed with the Leaf. But once it's released we'll have to put up with 16,000 more overly smug drivers that pull that Leaf into their 2200 square foot home with swimming pool, granite countertops and "70 widescreen that decry "consummerism." I mean, heck, they're saving the planet with their electric car. :dblthumb: :chuckle:

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby float_6969 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:18 am

As I stated before, I'll take a solar array in my front lawn over a coal burning plant any day.

You're correct that solar power is not THE solution. IMHO, there isn't any one solution. It's going to take a combination of different tactics in different parts of the worlds to reduce the impact we're having on our environment. I agree with you on nuclear power. IIRC, Samsung has developed, and is supposed to be selling soon, a "personal nuclear power plant" of sorts. Basically it can be sized large enough to power your home, or just a community, with their target audience being ppl who's electrical supply is limited or un-reliable. Once again, nuclear isn't the solution, but it's a step in the right direction.

And ultimately, all of the things we're doing are to REDUCE our impact on the environment. Ofcourse, on a macro scale, EV's still contribution to pollution. But if the contribute LESS, then IMHO, it's an improvement. You also have to look at the future. Right now the range of most EV's is very low. This is due entirely because of battery technology. Battery technology is a rapidly developing, and I honestly have every reason to believe that the capacity and charge times will improve enough within the next 20 years. to be comparable to today's ICE's. And if on the whole, we can have similar range, and re-fueling/re-charging times, and have a lower overall impact on the environment with the use of EV's , what reason is there NOT to use them?

But we'll never get there if we don't get the ball rolling. And that's what we're doing with the Leaf, and hybrids. Putting money into the development of technologies that will allow for a cleaner future. [/rant]

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby retrodog » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:32 am

I don't think anybody thinks that they, as an individual, is saving the planet. They do feel, however, that they are making it a little better in an incremental way.

To say that a lifestyle which incorporates some wasteful usages can not be supportive of conservation by taking a few steps in the right direction is technically flawed. Kind of ridiculous. Now while the person can't say that they are extremely green, it's still a step in the right direction that they can be proud of.

All that stuff about the copper and lead mines was just started by the Hummer crowd on that e-mail that was floating around a few years ago, falsely describing why a Hummer was more green than a hybrid. Typical right-wing spin. <yawn>

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby Bubs daddy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:50 am

I'll wait until these EV's get a 400 mile range with a ten minute recharge time. Then I'll consider. But I agree nuclear is the way to go.

I don't doubt that ev cars will be more viable, more advanced, and more utilized in 20 years. It will take that long for the development of the infrastructure to support a completely different kind of car. I believe GM's Volt is approaching it the best way for now: electric car with small gas engine to recharge batteries for more range. Eventually, they may not need that small on board engine.

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby float_6969 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:43 pm

retrodog wrote:I don't think anybody thinks that they, as an individual, is saving the planet. They do feel, however, that they are making it a little better in an incremental way.

To say that a lifestyle which incorporates some wasteful usages can not be supportive of conservation by taking a few steps in the right direction is technically flawed. Kind of ridiculous. Now while the person can't say that they are extremely green, it's still a step in the right direction that they can be proud of.

All that stuff about the copper and lead mines was just started by the Hummer crowd on that e-mail that was floating around a few years ago, falsely describing why a Hummer was more green than a hybrid. Typical right-wing spin. <yawn>
:dblthumb:
Bubs daddy wrote:...I believe GM's Volt is approaching it the best way for now: electric car with small gas engine to recharge batteries for more range. Eventually, they may not need that small on board engine.
For my personal usage and mileage requirements, the Volt would be my preference as well. Ideally I would go all electric, but I need at least a 150-200 mile range for it to be a viable vehicle for my use, which the Leaf can't do right now and the Volt can. But the Leaf's target market isn't me, and the Volt's is. Regardless, I'm not in the market for a new car right now, so I won't be purchasing either in the near future, I'm just a big fan of EV's and truly believe they are the vehicle of the future.

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby DDS » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:31 pm

Bubs daddy wrote:I'll wait until these EV's get a 400 mile range with a ten minute recharge time. Then I'll consider. But I agree nuclear is the way to go.

I don't doubt that ev cars will be more viable, more advanced, and more utilized in 20 years. It will take that long for the development of the infrastructure to support a completely different kind of car. I believe GM's Volt is approaching it the best way for now: electric car with small gas engine to recharge batteries for more range. Eventually, they may not need that small on board engine.
I agree with your comments in fact, Bubs, your viewpoints about the EV's and the Volt are very correct. But I don't understand the cynicism. In the grand scheme of things the goal is to end dependence on fossil fuels. Why begrudge those that are enthusiastic, the satisfaction of getting started with the new technology? The Leaf is the start of bigger and better things to come.

One thing you have wrong is your idea about nuclear power. If you look into that power source you will become aware of the enormous liberation of energy in the form of pure heat required, and the problem of containment of contaminated waste. A complete switch over to nuclear power would be even more problematic for global warming and at least as environmentally disastrous as the burning of hydrocarbons. The only place nuclear power generation will ever be a total solution will be on the Sun. Nuclear power will fall into that group of energy sources that provide partial intermediate solutions (like coal and natural gas) until we ultimately eliminate dependence on fossil fuels. Ultimately we must get all the way to wind, solar and geothermal power generation. And studies have shown the costs will be staggering (cost hundreds of trillions dollars and require about 15% of the total surface area of the US). But we have to get started and that is where the Leaf and the Volt and enthusiasm join forces.

I agree with your comments about the Volt. The combination of a high rotational speed high efficient gas powered generator replenishing fewer batteries is a better intermediate solution for the average person just now. 100 miles just doesn't get it, especially at night, in the winter when lights and a heater are required - then your not going to go 100 miles, and even less if the batteries are not new.

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby jem003 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:31 pm

yeah nissan leaf is a very nice car, maybe next year I can buy that car. There are so many expenses first to be prioritize :)

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Re: Strong Initial Demand for Nissan Leaf

Postby Bubs daddy » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:33 pm

complete switch over to nuclear power would be even more problematic for global warming
Yikes.

If there is "global warming" it is because of the natural climate changes that have occured for millions of years. To think that man could possibly change the climate of the earth is the heighth of man's arrogance. Man has only been on this planet a very small fraction of the time. Earth has endured far more dramatic climate change than what is occuring now. Sun activity and normal climactic changes have far more to do with temperature changes of decades than tailpipe emissions.

That said, earth's resources, whether they are oil, gas, or copper for electric vehicles will always be used. Sure, solar wind and geothermic are great aspirations but you still need to mine ore and other resources for themanufacturing of different propulsion methods, whatever they would be. So instead of using oil, we would be mining copper or other minerals for this electric car.

This planet has survived catastrophic events such as meteor hits, volcanic eruptions, massive forest fires, and others. "Man made" global warming is the least of my worries and not something that I think is even valid. But I guess if people repeat it often enough, it becomes fact.

I await the development of this car to see how it is received and works in everyday practical life. But the "emission free" designation on the motor is a misnomer and misleading. Burning coal to provide the electricity to power this car is not emissions free. It's anything but.


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