Stock clutch died after 57k - looking for replacement

[bbutton]

Hi, all,

I've read through the forums here and on other sites, and it seems that the clutches on the '05 6mt's don't seem to last as long as I'm used to.

For someone who drives their G35 reasonably gently, does having a JWT clutch and flywheel make sense? I'm initially attracted to it because it costs $700 less than the OEM replacement installed and it sounds like it performs a bit better.

The downsides appear to be the chatter mostly, from what I can see. I talked to my mechanic about the clutch, and he started warning me away from it. He said aftermarket clutches are risky, not as good as OEM parts, no guarantee on the install or clutch, since its aftermarket, and a bunch more reasons.

I've also been reading, trying to find out any info on how long a JWT clutch would last. Do they tend to last longer than the OEM clutch/flywheel combination?

Finally, any suggestions for a shop in St. Louis to use, should I decide to go with the JWT clutch?

Sorry for asking newbie questions, but I've been doing a lot of reading over the past week trying to learn as much as I can, and I still have a few unanswered questions.

Thanks,bab

[Poyzinous]

The stock clutch will hold up fine for any G with less than 350-380hp.The 05 and 06 clutch/pressure plate is a little different than the 03/04. It was made to be a little quieter and chatter a little less, but its friction point is a little more sensitive. I've been told its softer(which is why it may wear a bit quicker). Also, the 05 has the high rev motor, so most shifting is done at 100 to 500 rpms higher than in the 6600 rpm motor. Part number for the clutch/pressure plate(sold as one unit) is 30205-CD00C. The release bearing is the same for all of them. 30502-69F10. But if you drive like a normal person, dont worry about aftermarket, unless the kit stresses drivablility, and you want to take that chance.

[joe603]

If you don't want the transmission to chatter, get a heavy flywheel, or the OEM one. I think the OEM dual-mass flywheel weighs 30+ lbs...aftermarket solid flywheels weigh under 20lbs. It seems that the lighter the flywheel, the more it will chatter. The JWT is one of the lightest you can get...

However, having a light flywheel will transform the car into a beast. RPM acceleration will be much faster than OEM...basically, the car will act more like a race car than a luxury car.

[Poyzinous]

factory flywheel is 26lbs. Lighter flywheel will also make clutch engagement more challenging, because of its inertia or E=mc2 physical motion properties and whatever. If there is no big power upgrade, a 20 to 22lb flywheel is the lightest you should go before compromising shifting ability to a twitchy and possibly aggravating state.

[awdjdmtalon]

Aftermarket clutches are not risky. But just like any modification you do to the car, it can cause damage if you abuse it. But then again abusing stock stuff can be "risky". Sounds like he just doesn't want to do the job.

I am a tech and have personally but in over 50 aftermarket perfomance clutch/flywheels. And the only ones that ever had problems were the ones that were used for drag racing. Drag racing puts a tremendous load on them.

As for the flywheel. If you have never driven a lightweight flywheel, you will have problems at first. It takes more RPM's to get the car to start moving off the line w/o bogging the car down.

And as far as clutch engaugement. If you use a street disk it will still have the stock feel to it but will hold much better.

You will have more noise in the drive line w/ the light weight flywheel. I have notied it only when I am in too high of a gear for the speed I am going. i.e. in 3rd gear going 20 mph when I should be in 2nd. Then there is noise.

I am using the Competition Clutch flywheel w/ the stage 4 clutch. I would not reccomend the stage 4 if you have never driven a puck style clutch. It has very harsh engaugement and can be difficult to get the car going from a stop, if you aren't used to it. Joe603 also is using the same clutch/flywheel combo as I am. So he can verify what I am telling you.

I hope this was helpful.

[Sentientbydesign]

Basically what ^ he said.

The stock flywheel is good because it's quiet and easy to use. The downsides are that it must be replaced and not resurfaced (mainly because the springs inside it wear). Also it's heavy, which takes away power from where most of use want it. It's expensive, especially when you consider that it's 2.5-3x as much as a solid flywheel and you'll have to buy 3-4 of them throughout the life of the car.

Not trying to be a PITA, but Poyzinous is an Infiniti Parts/Tech so he's kind of swayed in his opinion of Nissan stuff versus aftermarket stuff.

If you go with a solid flywheel, be sure to get one that is a little heavier. The JWT flywheel is supposedly 14lbs, but when I took it to the post office yesterday, they said it was just under 15lbs. The RPS I have installed now is just around 17lbs and seems quieter than the JWT most of the time.

[Poyzinous]

I AM a little biased, but its because I've dealt with customers buying crap aftermarket parts. Like one guy who had a cheap intake and a firecracker-in-a-bucket muffler/halfass exhaust, and curb-ridden rims who swore his car ran 12s even though his "performance" setup probably robbed his car of power. And he had A twindisc clutch and 15lb flywheel and said he could run 13 flat thanks to double clutching and Fast and the Furious techniques. I wanted to laugh in his face. But anyway, there ARE good aftermarket parts. Just make sure they match what you have on the car. That goes for everyone. 400hp is no good on 225 series tires, and a massive fancy brakes are pointless if the rest of your car is bone stock. It happens. Guys with stick-on mods. I hate it.

[bbutton]

I AM a little biased, but its because I've dealt with customers buying crap aftermarket parts. Like one guy who had a cheap intake and a firecracker-in-a-bucket muffler/halfass exhaust, and curb-ridden rims who swore his car ran 12s even though his "performance" setup probably robbed his car of power. And he had A twindisc clutch and 15lb flywheel and said he could run 13 flat thanks to double clutching and Fast and the Furious techniques. I wanted to laugh in his face. But anyway, there ARE good aftermarket parts. Just make sure they match what you have on the car. That goes for everyone. 400hp is no good on 225 series tires, and a massive fancy brakes are pointless if the rest of your car is bone stock. It happens. Guys with stick-on mods. I hate it.

I do appreciate your concern, Poyzinous. I'm trying to be careful about this, and the JWT clutch doesn't seem to be a cartoonish upgrade over stock. It also seems to be a quality aftermarket part, as opposed to those you mention. In my day job, I'm a systems thinker kind of person, so I understand your misgivings about people who break up a set without giving thought to the whole.

Thanks again for your answers. The counterpoint to everyone else is always welcome!

bab

[Poyzinous]

Good job BButton. My main points are simple:1) You have a nice car, give it the best. Why put $2 a quart reprocessed oil in your motor? Or wash it with sewage water? Or Drive it in a demolition derby?2) Why wear boots to go hiking but wear a suit and tie? When you modify your car, make sure everything is in line with each other and is quality. In other words, Dont expect to get drinking water out of the toilet.

[bbutton]

Good job BButton. My main points are simple:1) You have a nice car, give it the best. Why put $2 a quart reprocessed oil in your motor? Or wash it with sewage water? Or Drive it in a demolition derby?2) Why wear boots to go hiking but wear a suit and tie? When you modify your car, make sure everything is in line with each other and is quality. In other words, Dont expect to get drinking water out of the toilet.

Nice assembly of metaphors

The inference I'm getting from this is that you believe the JWT parts are inferior to the stock parts for this car. Are there any aftermarket clutches and flywheels you feel are comparable to the stock parts without turning my G35 into a racing vehicle? Or is the stock just the best way to go, period? (Genuine question)

[Poyzinous]

Most of the guys here know what they are talking about. There are good aftermarket parts out there. JWT makes good stuff from what I've seen and heard. If you were happy with the stock clutch, stay with it. If I had a Manual G, and light mods, I would. But its because of driveability. In the city, with constant stop and go traffic, i want a soft(but responsive) pedal, easy transition from flywheel to clutch, and quiet operation. Ask the guys here what clutches and flywheels work close to stock as far as the qualities you want in your car. If you just want a slight step up, a 19 to 21 lb flywheel wont make shifting much harder, and pressure plates and clutch discs should be just a little bit stronger as far as friction pressure rating and whatnot so its still comfortable to shift. I'm writing too much now. But after all, just ask here. There are lots of smart guys.

[awdjdmtalon]

Ok I think I have the answer you are looking for. It sounds like you are going to keep the car stock but want a little bit better performace out of it.

Use the stcok flywheel for the driveablity and use the Nismo clutch disk and pressure plate. All 3 parts are avalible from the Nissan dealer, and will carry thier parts warranty.

The clutch will be a upgrade from the stock one and have better performance, while still being a factory part. And the guy installing it shouldn't have a problem with doing the job. B/C all the parts will come in a Nissan box.

I would check ebeg for the flywhell tho. I have seen the stock dual mass flywheels on there new for $5-600.

I am pretty sure that Joe, and I know about myself, that we are both looking to get the most out of our cars. I even plan on TTing my car in the near future. That is my reason for going w/ an agressive clutch.

I have been in the "import tuning" sceene for about 10 yrs and know how to plan a build of a car. So every part I choose is done so w/ a purpose. And I use quality parts. I have broken many cheaper parts in the learning process. You get what you pay for.

[Poyzinous]

Yea what he^ said. Nismo. That fell off my brain train. Thats a good way to go. Just make sure if you get an aftermarket flywheel, its a quality one. You dont want a cheap imbalanced flywheel tearing up your clutch and *gasp*, your internals...

[Sentientbydesign]

I 2nd both of their comments.

If you're happy with the performance of the stock setup, keep it. I bought my car with the JWT and thought my transmission was going out for the first 2-3 months. I then did research to find that it was a price for sportier driving.

I personally wouldn't expect any of the aftermarket clutches to last much longer than your current one, though I could be wrong.

[joe603]

Aftermarket clutches are not risky. But just like any modification you do to the car, it can cause damage if you abuse it. But then again abusing stock stuff can be "risky". Sounds like he just doesn't want to do the job.

I am a tech and have personally but in over 50 aftermarket performance clutch/flywheels. And the only ones that ever had problems were the ones that were used for drag racing. Drag racing puts a tremendous load on them.

As for the flywheel. If you have never driven a lightweight flywheel, you will have problems at first. It takes more RPM's to get the car to start moving off the line w/o bogging the car down.

And as far as clutch engagement. If you use a street disk it will still have the stock feel to it but will hold much better.

You will have more noise in the drive line w/ the light weight flywheel. I have noticed it only when I am in too high of a gear for the speed I am going. i.e. in 3rd gear going 20 mph when I should be in 2nd. Then there is noise.

I am using the Competition Clutch flywheel w/ the stage 4 clutch. I would not recommend the stage 4 if you have never driven a puck style clutch. It has very harsh engagement and can be difficult to get the car going from a stop, if you aren't used to it. Joe603 also is using the same clutch/flywheel combo as I am. So he can verify what I am telling you.

I hope this was helpful.

Yup! I have the Comp clutch/flywheel stage 4 and it is a totally different car! I plan on adding a supercharger eventually...so thats why I wanted an aggressive setup. DO NOT go with a stage 4 if you don't plan on doing extensive mods that will push the RWHP to 400.

JWT -one of the lightest flywheels you can get.CC -next step up...a little heaver than JWT.APS -a little heaver than CC.NISMO - a little heaver than APS.

[Sentientbydesign]

CC and JWT should be around the same weight. JWT was just under 15lbs with the box and the post office.

IIRC, the CC was supposed to be 14lbs as well.

RPS is 17lbs and has the same benefits as the JWT, Fidanza and a few others with the replaceable friction surface. The benefit of the CC is that the chromoly is VERY durable and should handle resurfaces well.

So replace the surface, or have a durable surface. Can't go wrong either way.

[Jacko3]

Pyzinous:

You are awesome. I love your play on words. Well done! You are a probably a better poet than I.

[Jacko3]

First of all, aftermarket clutch systems generally rattle like hell. My little nissan has an after-market clutch setup and its rattling is unbeleivable. So, in my honest opinion and assessment, judging from my little nissan which i flog routinely with 253K miles, between aftermarket and dealership clutch systems, is that the difference in wear and failure, is almost insignificant. Their wear rate probably depends on your driving style and the amount of torque the car produces, as you continue to modify the car for more performance.

So, the question is, what other factors do you consider??? Price: almost always, from the G-35 to my little nissan, after market clutch systems are cheaper--my little nissan's clutch kit is a whooping $89 - $133 at Autozone and almost $300 at the delearship. So, what gives? The chatter. Your first few months with aftermarket clutch systems is likely going to be aggravating and annoying because when you start the car, and at idle, the chatter will be there waiting for you---can't escape it. So, you must decide if the money you are saving is worth the aggravation in clutch chatter or not. First time I experienced this with my little nissan, I thought my Tech had messed up my clutch. Lo and behold, after 5 years of intense use, that clutch is still pulling strong. However, in my honest opinion, aftermarket clutch systems seem to be able to take a little more abuse than OEM clutch systems. OEM clutch systems were designed with comfort in mind, at the expense of performance.

I also have to wonder how you drive, given that you babied the car and yet had the clutch go out at 57K. AZhitman recently had his OEM clutch replaced afte rmany years of abuse and competition at about 69K. Even I, when I had my clutch replaced at 30K, when my flywheel was failing, had driven my G so hard and yet, the technician said, there was some meat left on the clutch, but it was best to go ahead an give it more meat with a new clutch. So, it isn't really hard to wear out the clutch system of a car with lots of torque like the G, given the conditions I have stated.

This is what i have found out about the G. The distance between the engagement of the OEM clutch system from rest, is slightly too large--this was probably done for comfort more than performance. So, I adjusted my clutch for smaller distance between engagement. I literally clutch and dump--I don't engage gently. So, far it is working well. But this comes at the cost of the clutch pedal not coming up completely for the most part. When you adjust one thing in the G, another factor is thrown out of balance.

Also, the torque in the G seems to be a culprit in how quickly the clutch wears. I have discovered that installing test pipes, reduces that initial torque at low rpms during clutch engagement, but engages the torque at higher rpms and as you give the car more gas. In essence, who would have beleived that testpipes can save the rate of wear of your clutch because of its ability to reduce torque on initial take off. Torque is what kills a clutch and not horsepower. So, at higher speeds, where horsepower comes into play, your clutch may actually be wearing out much slower than at lower speeds where torque resides. The higher the torque, the shorter the clutch system life. Taking away the G's low end torque and redistributing it at slightly higher rpms, which is exactly what test pipes do, is a way to drive aggressively and yet make your clutch system last longer. And that would probabaly explain why my little nissans clutch system has lasted so long inspite of abuse---It has very small torque compared to its horsepower, and rightly so, becasue it is a lighter little car. This is just my experience so far.

It would appear that the NISMO set up---flywheel and clutch, is somewhere in the middle. I beleive I maybe trying out a complete NISMO set up--flywheel and clutch, when i am ready to do my clutch again. Difference in price with other aftermarket systems will be about $500 more for a NISMO, and yet cheaper than OEM setup. So, I think NISMO is a happy median.


Modified by Jacko3 at 6:58 AM 2/6/2009

[QX1]

I had installed to my 06 G35 Exedy Stage1 clutch with OEm DMF brand new and it was chattering it eventually spoiled the clutch and flywheel, they become twisted both and burned, is this normal+
If i had used exedy nf-04 SMF would it had better results?
Bt the way the stage1 facing burned like slipping clutch?

Aftermarket clutches are not risky. But just like any modification you do to the car, it can cause damage if you abuse it. But then again abusing stock stuff can be "risky". Sounds like he just doesn't want to do the job.

I am a tech and have personally but in over 50 aftermarket perfomance clutch/flywheels. And the only ones that ever had problems were the ones that were used for drag racing. Drag racing puts a tremendous load on them.

As for the flywheel. If you have never driven a lightweight flywheel, you will have problems at first. It takes more RPM's to get the car to start moving off the line w/o bogging the car down.

And as far as clutch engaugement. If you use a street disk it will still have the stock feel to it but will hold much better.

You will have more noise in the drive line w/ the light weight flywheel. I have notied it only when I am in too high of a gear for the speed I am going. i.e. in 3rd gear going 20 mph when I should be in 2nd. Then there is noise.

I am using the Competition Clutch flywheel w/ the stage 4 clutch. I would not reccomend the stage 4 if you have never driven a puck style clutch. It has very harsh engaugement and can be difficult to get the car going from a stop, if you aren't used to it. Joe603 also is using the same clutch/flywheel combo as I am. So he can verify what I am telling you.

I hope this was helpful.

[joe603]

Wow...this is an old thread! The chatter came from the single-mass flywheel. The OEM are a dual-mass design to eliminate drivetrain vibrations. I have not heard of that causing twisting and burning though. It may not have been installed properly.

[QX1]

You cannot install clutch and flywheel falsely, anyone who has a bit of understanding of mechanics and especcially car repair or servcing car knows that. G35 flywheel is built fool proof way, that means that there is only one way to install clutch and flywheel.Come back from tree to earth!

Wow...this is an old thread! The chatter came from the single-mass flywheel. The OEM are a dual-mass design to eliminate drivetrain vibrations. I have not heard of that causing twisting and burning though. It may not have been installed properly.

[QX1]

By the way, I have abused exedy stage 1 clutch for Nissan Maxima in tremendous way, in drag racing, slipping and doing anykind of tricks with it, it did never burned the clutch until now, when clutch is FAULTY!!!

Ok I think I have the answer you are looking for. It sounds like you are going to keep the car stock but want a little bit better performace out of it.

Use the stcok flywheel for the driveablity and use the Nismo clutch disk and pressure plate. All 3 parts are avalible from the Nissan dealer, and will carry thier parts warranty.

The clutch will be a upgrade from the stock one and have better performance, while still being a factory part. And the guy installing it shouldn't have a problem with doing the job. B/C all the parts will come in a Nissan box.

I would check ebeg for the flywhell tho. I have seen the stock dual mass flywheels on there new for $5-600.

I am pretty sure that Joe, and I know about myself, that we are both looking to get the most out of our cars. I even plan on TTing my car in the near future. That is my reason for going w/ an agressive clutch.

I have been in the "import tuning" sceene for about 10 yrs and know how to plan a build of a car. So every part I choose is done so w/ a purpose. And I use quality parts. I have broken many cheaper parts in the learning process. You get what you pay for.

[joe603]

okay, well then you answered your own question. faulty clutch and/or flywheel.

But a mechanic can still miss tightening a bolt or two...which could cause problem. Good luck with your issue...back to my tree.

[QX1]

I replaced my clutch and flywheels that are LUK OEM and problem solved no chattering and no clutch burninmg smell.
The clutch and flywheels(faulty have burned spots on surface plate and the surface plate was twisted also during 800 miles, I see such a result first time at my life, the problems are either facings or flywheel.

okay, well then you answered your own question. faulty clutch and/or flywheel.

But a mechanic can still miss tightening a bolt or two...which could cause problem. Good luck with your issue...back to my tree.

[KyuubisBlade]

I have a stage one kit from ClutchMasters with the stock flywheel and I am quite satisfied. It drives normally with no added weight at the pedal. the only time you really feel the difference is when you dump the clutch- It grabs suddenly and will have the rears spinning or the computer cutting you off fast. Overall very livable for day-to-day driving if you want something other than OEM.