'stock' brake upgrades

[Ceptos]

i am piecing together in my head how i want to upgrade my brakes, i think the best option is for an upgrade of existing parts, as opposed to a z32 swap or something.

the way i see it atm is:

brembo drilled/slotted rotors - $209hawk hps 'preformance street' pads from tire rack - $110goodridge steel brake lines from tire rack - $123

i havnt looked into fluid just yet, but with almost 170K on my 95 240, i would like to replace the calipers as well, is there an upgraded unit that will work with the stock rotors? or should i just look for a nice set of referbished ones?

also, i have the option of straight slots, or curved slots on the rotors, is there a difference in them aside from looks? any suggestions on fluid?

after looking through a lot of options for brakes, and hearing what others have to say about their own setup, i think unless you are putting a lot of power under the hood, a brake swap isnt really neccisary, with the added unsprung weight and new concerns with wheel clearence.

[BadMojo]

i am piecing together in my head how i want to upgrade my brakes, i think the best option is for an upgrade of existing parts, as opposed to a z32 swap or something.

brembo drilled/slotted rotors - $209hawk hps 'preformance street' pads from tire rack - $110goodridge steel brake lines from tire rack - $123

i havnt looked into fluid just yet, but with almost 170K on my 95 240, i would like to replace the calipers as well, is there an upgraded unit that will work with the stock rotors? or should i just look for a nice set of referbished ones?

I'm looking to do some work on my brakes too, since I have some nasty pulsation at high speeds. I'm also going with the Hawk pads, but I believe Enjuku has stainless steel lines from Russell for less than $100. I'll most likely buy those.

I also picked up some Russell Speed Bleeders from a place called Seven Saturdays on Ebay. They're selling 'em dirt cheap.

I haven't decided on rotors yet. I'm curious...are the slotted/drilled ones you're talking about from irotors.com?

[doctorj240]

I just installed rotors and stainless lines from raceconcepts.net which are brembo c/d and slotted. I'm running ebc greenstuff pads upfront. Front rotors were $125, rears are $120 lines were $99, pads were $79 and they work great if you don't road race. For street driven cars that do some autocrossing this setup seems like it will do fine.

[BadMojo]

I'll most likely go with either plain old Brembo rotors (no cross-drilling or slotting) or some kind of slotted rotor. I'm not really a fan of cross-drilled rotors, and don't really see the point of cross-drilling AND slotting, except for the Bling Factor™.

I thought of running the EBC Greenstuff pads, but they only make them for the fronts. I've heard good things about the Hawk HPS pads, and won't really be going to the track any time soon.

As for brake fluid, I'm probably going to go with some Valvoline Synpower DOT3/DOT4.

[doctorj240]

As for brake fluid, I'm probably going to go with some Valvoline Synpower DOT3/DOT4.

This is what I'm running. I've heard great things about it and it's cheap.

[Grant@tirerack]

I like the Hawk HPS for street use. Cross drilled rotors are eye candy and that's about it. They remove too much material from the rotor anyway. Slotted rotors are not a must-have but do help degas the pads when you do some spirited driving and will help with fade resistance. There are a lot of companies out there using the regular Brembo rotors and are slotting and drilling them in the aftermarket. I find that to be very scary. Brembo makes both slotted and drilled versions but don't do both on the same rotor. It removes too much mass from the rotor. Even the Brembo factory drilled rotors are not to be used for track use and are not warranted against warping or cracking. That should tell you something right there. :rolleyes True drilled rotors will have increased mass to make up for all that metal they remove. O.E. drilled rotors from brembo are cast with that in mind. Anytime you take the stock size rotor and drill it (and to a less extent groove it) you remove some of its ability to act as a heat sink.

[Ceptos]

i always thought drilling would increase its ability to act as a heat sink, since it is more surface area for cool air to disperse the heat. of course that was just my assumption.

the rotors i saw are from ebay, mastergrade. they are $190 for all four. just search for '240sx rotors' and it should come up.

i guess ill look into the pros and cons a little more for slotting and drilling, sounds like its worth familiarizing myself with.

[lessthanjakejohn]

Yes but more mass is better than holes.

[Grant@tirerack]

The basic function of the rotor and pad is to convert energy. The brakes convert the vehicle's kenetic energy into thermal energy. To put it simply, it converts the movement of the car into heat as it brings the vehicle to a stop. That heat has to go somewhere. The greater the mass of the brake rotor or drum, the more heat energy it can absorb quickly. That's why cast iron tubs keep your bath water warmer longer and cast iron cookware cooks evenly. Cast iron is a good heat conductor and it's fairly stable. It is far easier for the rotor to absorb heat than it is for them to cool down. On larger rotors with the holes lined up with the cooling vanes and ducts pumping air through the rotors, holes can help. The brakes on 99.99% of cars are not set up like that. Most of vendors are taking the stock rotor casting and drilling holes that reduce the mass of the rotor. The main idea behind the holes in the first place was to vent gas buildup from the pad compounds when they heat up. The resin used to bind the elements of the pad together will give off gasses when they heat up. This film of gas can act like water under a tire and cause the brakes to fade. The holes gave it somewhere to go and even though it reduced the contact surface area , the trade off was good. Then someone realized you can cut a slot in the rotor to do the same thing without reducing the mass or surface area as much. CART, INDY, and most upper end racing cars now run slotted rotors. For most street driving, the slots are not going to make as much difference as going to a good pad compound when it comes to braking. The other problem is that drilled rotors are not going to cool as evenly as a slotted roter either. That's where the warping and cracking comes into play. On a NASCAR car where you are going to change the rotors out after evey event they may make sense but for street use day- in and day- out I would not go that route unless you need the 'bling' factor. The only drilled street rotors I would look at as a true upgrade are the Baer Eradispeed Rotors. These are cast with more mass and often larger sizes to begin with. That's the only way it makes sense.

[Exar-Kun]

actually I like cross drilled rotors for a few reasons:-if they're drilled correctly (IE with the vaning in a vented rotor) you dont get much(if any) stress risers, esspecially if the drilling was chamfered correctly.-if drilled correctly they have the ability to disperse water better(this is why porshe uses them, along with ferrari, and AMG...*ahem*) and the holes actually help the air vanes to cool the face of the rotor (most exposed surface=better cooling, and if its done with the vanes, it gives the hot air a place to exit)-less weight(quite engligable)-"cleans" the pad, as slotted rotors do, allowing gasses on the pad to go somewhere.*note: brembo doesnt warranty their(aftermarket) cross-drilled rotors against warping or cracking for the same reason BF goodrich doesnt put a mileage warranty on the AT K/O, intended use would mean you're going to be beating the hell outa those rotors. it doesnt make sense to warranty a "racing" part, period. heck, try and get a warranty against cracking on a 2500 dollar racing brake system...ppppfttt...as if. *

now, this is not to say cross-drilled rotors will always provide benifits, if they're cheap and done randomly(you can tell, check the vaning) you get no benifits, except a little reduced mass, and a thinner wallet(and possibly stress fractures).

I would agree, you see more results from upgrading the pad and brake lines and fluid than you would buying any rotor, drilled, slotted, or both(unless its bigger than stock) fact is, brakes take inertia and convert it to heat via friction...and the stock system witha few tweaks is more than adequate for 90% of people driving.

*phew*-chet

[lessthanjakejohn]

less mass is bad. Why do you say its good?

[Ceptos]

these are from irotors on ebay, i was wondering what u meant by the veins. i havnt heard much about irotors yet tho.

[Phax]

Ceptos,

I have pretty much the exact setup you listed, currently installed on my car. I am using DOT-4 brake fluid. The peddle feel is great. The stopping power is quite good. The fade resistance isn't quite there though. I'd suggest getting the rotors slotted if you're going to be doing any repeated, high speed stopping.

How much power are you planning on making with your car? Given my current mods, the braking system is almost over powered. If I crank the boost up to 10psi, I get the sense that it will definitely be overpowered.

[Grant@tirerack]

I think it was Chet who said once that if you can lock up the brakes with the stock brake setup, it's more than adequate. I agree, it's money better spend on improved pads, lines, and fluid. He's also right that it's only on the aftermarket drilled rotors that there is no warranty. It's important to remember that O.E. drilled rotors are designed with more mass to begin with to make up for the lost mass where the holes are. Porsche, Mercedes, and most other 'drilled' O.E. rotors are actually cast with the holes in them. They are not drilled. The holes also need to line with the internal vents in the rotor to have any effect in cooling. The rotors pictured above are not the Brembo Sport Drilled or Slotted rotors. Someone has taken the basic stock Brembo rotor and machined it. They didn't even bother to take the time to adjust the tooling for left or right patterns. Please tell me these are for the same side of the car?!?!? Only 2/3 of this rotor has cooling holes (maybe lined up with the cooling veins of the rotor or not) which leaves a third of the rotor with less air flow. How is that going to cool evenly and not warp? They also didn't bother to coat the rotors with any protective coating. I'd get some caliper paint and coat the rotor hats on these before you install them. These are going to rust just like the stock rotors (which is what they are, minus a lot of mass they were designed to have).

[Ceptos]

i dont think ill ever plan on putting more than 230hp to the ground. my original idea was to get a rebuilt '200hp ka' (with minor changes like cams) from afterdark after my suspension and brake upgrades. dont know if that will still be possible, but hopefully.

i think that is a pic of the rear and front rotors. i think brembo makes slotted stock replacements, i will probably end up with those, zink plated.

thanks for all of the help, i understand a little more about brakes now =) i guess there isnt a larger caliper option, have to find a cheap set of refurbished ones i guess.

[corn322]

you can upgrade your rotors and calipers to q45 rotors and calipers. almost a direct bolt on. just have to get the rotors re-drilled for 4 lug. or do a 5 lug conversion. when I got mine in from fastbrakes, the cross-drilled/slotted (yeah, both. I didn't want cross drilled, but my dad did it anyway) they still weighed more than the stock 240 rotors.