Stillen Experience

[bfischer]

First of all, thanks to all of you who have provided all this great information... what a great resource. I recently purchased a 2006 M45 Sport with 20K trading in a BMW X5 4.6is.

To say I am pleased is an understatement. The M, as so many of you know, is a gem. Reviews, comparisons and insights on this forum was a factor in my decision to get the M45. We could have bought a more expensive car, but the value the car represented couldn't be touched.

I do feel compelled however to disclose an experience I am dealing with currently with one of Nissan's premier aftermarket parts producer/supplier.

A little background first: I have worked in the automotive industry for over 10 years. Before working for my current employer, Boeing, in Space Exploration here in Houston, I worked for DaimlerChrysler managing some of their motorsports programs. My parents also owned a dealership. I have been around cars and enthusiasts all my life. The Nissan products I have owned have been: 240Z (SCCA ITS), '90 Q45, '95 Maxima, 3 Pathfinders and now the '06 M45. I love and know Nissan products. In between I have owned BMWs, Audis, Toyotas, VWs and American. I understand and love the automotive world.

When I obtained the M, it needed brakes... so instead of replacing the stock rotors and pads with OEM, I chose to upgrade to Stillen drilled and slotted rotors (DBA rotors) and their pads. I have spent thousands with Stillen on upgrades over the years and have been very satisfied with their quality and customer service, so I didn't hesitate to order the parts for my new M from them. The parts were probably $500-$600 more than the stock parts, but the upgrade in performance in my mind was worth it.

I had Christian Brothers here in Clear Lake, TX install the rotors and pads. They are very honest and very reasonable in their pricing. A lot of my friends have had great experiences - the reason I trusted them to work on the M. I would have done it myself, except 2 kids under 4 kind of keep you from the things you used to do when single...

Anyways, they installed the rotors and pads and I picked up the car. The first 20 minutes were fine... brakes felt great. I was going to pick up my parents at Hobby Airport, about 30 minutes away. By the time I got to the airport, the rear brakes were GRRRRINDING. At first I thought the shop had screwed something up. My parents were like "nice car" every time I came to a stop on the way home... so i immediately went back to the shop after I dropped my parents off at home.

Christian Bros put the car up and took the wheels off... all the mechanics suddenly gathered around the rear wheel wells, astonished at what they saw. The pads had worn down to the backing plates in less than an hour. I asked questions as how this could happen... was it binding, did they install it wrong, etc. etc. If you ever have installed pads, you know how easy it is... a little bit harder than changing yoru oil, but very hard to screw up. If they were binding, the rear rotors would have showed signs of extreme heat, which they didn't. They only had grooves scraped in where the backing plate of the rear pads were digging into them. So they quite methodically came to the conclusion that the pads didn't have the bonding agent that holds together the material that makes up the pad. I asked them if they could speak to the tech department at Stillen, as they have installed thousands of brake pads and are familiar with the jargon. They agreed and proceeded to get into a conversation with the tech department. To my relief, Stillen agreed to "overnight" new rear pads and rotors. Fronts were perfect.

I was a little miffed that the car was dead in the water for another day, as my parents were in town and had nothing to drive them around, but at least Stillen admitted that the pads were defective and was going to take care of it. The next day I called the shop to see if the new pads came in... they hadn't... I asked if they could call the tech they talked to and they agreed. Come to find out, to save a little money, he shipped the parts out 2 or 3 day instead of overnight... out of the car now for the weekend. Still, I thought ok... they are taking care of it. I don't have a car to drive my parents around, but at least they are taking care of the problem.

So finally the new parts come in and I go to pick the car up... the conversation swirls around the fact that in all of the mechanics and owners collective experience working on cars, they had never seen a rear pad fail like that. In fact, I think one quote was "I never saw a $10 dollar set fail let alone this fancy high dollar stuff fail". At this point, the brakes are great. No obnoxious amount of dust on the rear wheels, so I am thinking all is fine. (have been fine for the last 3 months). I get home to find the chewed up rotors and the old "pads" in the trunk. The "pads" at this point are only the metal baking plates without a trace of pad material on them. Not thinking I just put them on a shelf in the garage. A month later (This all happened in the beginning of May) I am cleaning out the garage with the wife and either I or my wife ends up throwing this junk away. We threw a lot of crap away and the box with the pads and rotors looked like junk... not something anyone would keep.

Fast forward to Monday, almost 3 months after the brake ordeal and with NO communication with me from Stillen since the order confirmation... I get a call from a nice sounding girl from Stillen asking if I could set the parts out for a UPS return the next day... I say "You mean the ones from 3 months ago?" " I think I threw them out". She asks if I could look in the garage for them and I said I would. Then Wednesday at lunch I get the following e-mail:

" I spoke with you on Monday regarding the brake pads that were to be sent back to our shop. I need to set up a pick up with UPS as soon as possible. If this is failed to be done, I’m sorry to say but we will have to charge you for the part. Please give me a call at the number below or respond to this email as quickly as you can. Thanks.

Thank You,

Elaina Rankin

Adminstative Assistant

Steve Millen Sportparts, Inc.

Phone: 714.540.5566 x159

Fax: 714.755.6672

http://www.stillen.com"

So I send the following reply:

"Hi Elaina- Called your number, entered the extension and got Alex (Sp?) in customer service. Left him a message. Couldn't find the defective brake pads from almost 3 months ago... I either threw them out or my wife did. Again, I am finding it hard to believe that Stillen is contacting me after 3 months after you replaced the defective part looking for the old part and threatening to charge me for it if I don't send it in. 1) I didn't deal with your technical dept for the problem, The owner of Christian Bros automotive here in Clear Lake, TX graciously did. They are the ones who installed the brake pads (twice). I don't know the conversation that took place between them, all I know is Stillen obviously replaced them because they were defective. In fact, they have never seen anything like it in their collective years as mechanics. They never told me that Stillen wanted the defective parts back and if the tech told them they wanted them back, then I would have expected them to either tell me, or ship them back themselves instead of leaving them in my trunk. 2) I can't believe Stillen would expect a customer to hold on to essentially what is junk for 3 months without any communication setting expectations on what to do with the parts you replaced. Again, the shop didn't tell me to keep them, you didn't tell me to keep them. Why would I keep them for almost 3 months? You call Monday, I told you I would look for them in the garage and 2 days later you are threatening to charge me? 3) I can't believe Stillen would threaten to charge a customer for replacing a defective product after admitting it was defective. I have bought from Stillen previously and was satisfied with the quality and customer service. That's why I bought from Stillen again. I was surprised when the rear brake pads failed after less than an hour of use and a little annoyed that my car was out of service for a weekend because of it (waiting on the replacement parts from you) and when I had company in town, but again, was satisfied that Stillen took care of the problem. If you call this "customer service", don't expect to retain many customers. It is unbelievable to me that this is how you treat a customer spending disposable income upgrading their stock brakes on their 2006 Infinity M45. I refuse to pay anyone for the replacement for defective parts and will never buy anything for my M45 or any other Nissan product I own from Stillen if this is the way you treat customers. If the manager of the Customer Service dept would like to discuss this, feel free to have them call me. 281-384-7952 -Brett Fischer"

Well, to say I was disappointed is an understatement. I thought Stillen was a premier provider of parts for our beloved Nissan and Infinitis, among others now.

The fact that they would be willing to alienate a customer for a $50 part is beyond my comprehension. I am dropping $1000 to upgrade already great 2006 M45 brakes and they think I am trying to scam them on a set of brake pads that failed. Pathetic. I admire Steve, Rod and Rhys for what they have done here in America, but I doubt if they built their business based on stupid decisions or terrible customer service like this.

Come to think of it, there oversight in quality control cost me 3 days without my car and several hours in trying to figure out what the heck I was going to do while my car sat in the shop for 3 days without rear pads. No apologies for the inconvenience, etc. The fact that my parents were in town and had to figure out alternate transportation when I just bought this car I was bragging about was embarrassing. Now, just an e-mail threatening to charge me for the replacement set of defective pads.

So if anyone has any good vendors that can supply Intakes, stainless steel brake lines, CPUs, etc - I would be interested in them.

I think I am done with Stillen. I will keep this forum updated on how they handle it.

[park2086]

just finished reading the whole thing you wrote.Makes me mad just by reading it.Hope everything works out well. Keep us updated.

[regtwelve]

Based on the post, I'm going to guess the shop who did the break work isn't an authorized Stillen distributor / installer. If this is so, then I really can't see why you're having such an issue.

Did the shop get paid extra money to install the brakes a second time? If they didn't, then the shop lost out on this deal, installing two sets of brakes, but only getting paid for one.

If I owned the shop, I would have left the brakes in your trunk too. If a guy shows up with stuff he wants me to install, a) I'm not happy because there is no mark-up in other people's products b) There is a certain amount of risk and liability associated with this type of work, which only increases with unfamiliar products and an unfamiliar source. Not only that, but what if I return the defective brakes, but they are lost in shipping? Am I to figure it all out and file a claim and such? I' de think not, leaving them in your trunk was the right thing to do. If they get lost, does the shop want a phone call from you asking for $50 because the parts never arrived, I'de say no considering they've already done 2 brake jobs for the price of one.

Besides, Stillen may have asked the shop to return the brakes, and they did, they returned them to your trunk where they got them.

As you probably know, auto dealerships are usually required to keep on hand defective parts that are repaired under warranty claims. This allows the mfgr to inspect the parts if so desired, and it also makes filing bogus warranty claims more difficult. With you'r parents experience in the auto business, I'm sure any condolences they gave you is out of love for their son, not because of your correctness in placing blame . There must have been some uncertainty in the back of your head just as you were throwing away the defective brakes.

Speaking of defective, were they really defective? Neither I nor you nor the shop nor Stillen knows as a matter of fact if they were defective. Some of the least trustworthy people on earth are those associated with the auto sale and repair business. We all know that. The fact that the shop was called Christian Brothers doesn't help either, lol .

These things are all possible from Stillens perspective:

The brakes were installed incorrectly by a non certified Stillen shop, and that caused them to malfunction.The brakes worked fine, the shop / customer just wanted a free set of brakes.

At the end of the day, Stillen gave 2 sets of brakes for the price of 1.The shop installed 2 sets of brakes for the price of 1.

...and you'r the one complaining.

[M4503transporter]

Thats right down foolish asking for those parts after 3 months. By the way, well written reply that should probably do the trick of making them think rationally. I wouldn't be surprise if you get an apology from them after reading your email.

[regtwelve]

Furthermore...you said both the pads and rotors were in your posession and ultimately trashed by you (brown boxes of junk and anti packrat wife = you)...yet they only charged you $50. Were the rotors free? I can't believe the whole set was $50. Looks like they cut you a break out of shear kindness.

Stillen admitted the pads were defective? Such an admission can only be made after the pads are inspected by Stillen. It seemed as if they were defective, they couldn't have known. Again, they sent the new brakes out of kindness, they couldn't have known that they were defective. Furthermore, now they can't know if the brakes were defective.

They called after three months and said they wanted the brakes back. Are you sure Stillen hadn't just got off the phone with Christian Brothers who advised Stillen that rather than sending the brakes back, as they had agreed to, that they simply put the brakes in your trunk? Isn't it very possible based on the conversations between C.B. and Stillen that the brakes were to be returned, but only after a certain amount of time had expired with no return did Stillen learn that you had the brakes?

I guess my biggest problem here, the thing that totally throws me overboard, is the explaination for what happened to the defective parts.If a person is cleaning out their garage, I can't Imagine simply throwing away boxes of heavy metal objects without checking to see what is inside. I simply don't believe that, even a wife wouldn't do that.Whoever threw the box away, looked inside the box. If you looked inside the box, and saw the brakes, and then threw them away, you most certainly would have remembered it. You don't seem like you have a poor memory, and throwing away a set of rotors and pads is not something one would likely forget after a few weeks.

If you threw them away, then why throw your wife in the mix? Hmm, well, funny, you almost try placing the blame on someone other than you, but then say it doesn't matter anyway because they were actually junk. I suppose adding another person to the mix, sort of suplementing your 50%junk argument with a 50% its not my fault my wife may have done it argument may add up to a 100% I'm not guilty argument. No, sorry.

Now, pretending your wife threw them away without your knowledge, which I doubt, would mean that she simply picked up a heavy box of metal items and just tossed them. Some wives aren't so bright, but you seem like you probably picked a decent one... this is simply too hard to believe.

I think you knew at the very moment that the brakes were thrown away, and you let them get thrown away, and this was a mistake you made, something that gave you 100% control over the outcome, yet something you carelessly squandered, and it is indeed the sole mistake you made which caused all of these walls of text.

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,

Regtwelve, Is it really necessary to be accusatory about the whereabouts of the pads? Unless proven otherwise, Bfischer should get the benefit of the doubt. I completely understand Stillen wanting the defective pads back for research purposes. This is truly the first time I have ever heard of new pads, especially premium, delaminating. However, accusing the man of fabricating what happened is not fair.

Bfischer, welcome to NICO. Hopefully, this will get resolved painlessly and quickly.Cheers,ML

[bfischer]

Thanks for the responses.

Matt: If you have ever looked at rotors or changed pads, you know how easy it is. Christian Bros has a very good reputation around here. Granted, a lot of shops aren't ethical, but based on the many shops I have had experienced in my life - including several dealers - these guys are near the top. The installed them correctly. When I got out at the airport, the rear wheel spokes were covered with brake dust grain - not light dust.

As far as the shop at fault: I looked at the rear rotors. Physics alone would dictate that if the brake pad was good, and had worn down in an hour, the amount of energy required to do so would have produced enormous amount of heat that would have discolored the rotor. The rotor face was not discolored and the thermal paint on the edge hadn't changed.

The Stillen tech admitted that the pads were bad. I didn't have the conversation with them, but after the owner of the shop got off the phone he immediately said it was the binding agent in the pad and that they had similar reports lately from a batch of pads they just got.

My point is this: If they wanted the defective parts back, communicate it and in a timely manner. Don't call out of the blue 3 months later and then threaten to charge me because I didn't keep them around.

This whole episode has cost me more in time than the part is worth, but it is the principle of the issue.

And yes I am complaining because I expect a company to stand behind their product. I guess you would just bend over and take it?

And no, I didn't get 2 sets of brakes for the price of one. I got 1 set of pads that worked and 1 set of rotors that replaced the set the defective pads chewed up.

Yes, the shop is out one rear brake job, and they will get my future business because of their generosity.

[maxnix]

This is not so uncommon when caliper piston operation isn't checked and or the metal caliper pins are not cleaned and lubricated with high temperature lubricant.

Stillen may not be at fault. Christian Brothers may be. If one is using an OEM brake set up even with the Stillen Brembo rotors (as I do), the OEM pad is still best for everyday use.

[Pashdut]

Furthermore...you said both the pads and rotors were in your posession and ultimately trashed by you (brown boxes of junk and anti packrat wife = you)...yet they only charged you $50. Were the rotors free? I can't believe the whole set was $50. Looks like they cut you a break out of shear kindness.

Stillen admitted the pads were defective? Such an admission can only be made after the pads are inspected by Stillen. It seemed as if they were defective, they couldn't have known. Again, they sent the new brakes out of kindness, they couldn't have known that they were defective. Furthermore, now they can't know if the brakes were defective.

They called after three months and said they wanted the brakes back. Are you sure Stillen hadn't just got off the phone with Christian Brothers who advised Stillen that rather than sending the brakes back, as they had agreed to, that they simply put the brakes in your trunk? Isn't it very possible based on the conversations between C.B. and Stillen that the brakes were to be returned, but only after a certain amount of time had expired with no return did Stillen learn that you had the brakes?

I guess my biggest problem here, the thing that totally throws me overboard, is the explaination for what happened to the defective parts.If a person is cleaning out their garage, I can't Imagine simply throwing away boxes of heavy metal objects without checking to see what is inside. I simply don't believe that, even a wife wouldn't do that.Whoever threw the box away, looked inside the box. If you looked inside the box, and saw the brakes, and then threw them away, you most certainly would have remembered it. You don't seem like you have a poor memory, and throwing away a set of rotors and pads is not something one would likely forget after a few weeks.

If you threw them away, then why throw your wife in the mix? Hmm, well, funny, you almost try placing the blame on someone other than you, but then say it doesn't matter anyway because they were actually junk. I suppose adding another person to the mix, sort of suplementing your 50%junk argument with a 50% its not my fault my wife may have done it argument may add up to a 100% I'm not guilty argument. No, sorry.

Now, pretending your wife threw them away without your knowledge, which I doubt, would mean that she simply picked up a heavy box of metal items and just tossed them. Some wives aren't so bright, but you seem like you probably picked a decent one... this is simply too hard to believe.

I think you knew at the very moment that the brakes were thrown away, and you let them get thrown away, and this was a mistake you made, something that gave you 100% control over the outcome, yet something you carelessly squandered, and it is indeed the sole mistake you made which caused all of these walls of text.

I usually never call anyone an idiot in forums, but your reply regtwelve is so absurd that it really makes you look like an idiot. Your entire reply was basically judging the guy, and not to mention HIS WIFE . Never speak about a man's wife...it almost seemed as if you insulted her as well...whether she threw them out or not, it is none of your business. Always give people the benefit of the doubt!

bfischer, we apologize for people like regtwelve who start jumping to conclusions without thinking it through. Welcome to NICO

[M45-Zero260]

Very well said, ttsupra26. I admit, I am one to enjoy watching a few episodes of CSI myself, however, it does not belong in this forum. I don't care if there is an improperly installed hinge on a cigar humidor, or a stain on a blue dress, the fact is, he is NOT getting the kind of customer service that one deserves. I've said this before on this site and been somewhat "slapped" by doing so, but I will say it again: There is way too much competition out there for ANY company to become so arrogant that they choose to keep their profits in their better interests above their customer satisfaction. In other words, "Don't forget where your paycheck comes from!" Sometimes you have to give, before you can take.

Either way, I hope everything works out well for the OP, and Stillen learns to follow up on matters in a more timely manner. 3 months is unacceptable.

[yblegall]

Hi Guys, first time posting but love the site....I recently bought an 07 M45 Sport that I found brand new at the dealer for a killer deal, I've spent the last 2 months adding a ton of mods and I wanted to chime in on the Stillen experience.....I have owned a ton of cars in my life and have always ordered parts from Stillen without issues.....I ordered a set of AP racing big brake kit front and rear, and an injen intake at first because I was still debaiting on which exhaust I was going to go with. The big brake kit is awesome and made a huge diff especially with the staggered setup of 20" EXE wheels and BGF KDW2 tires I put on and I love the sound of the intake....I finally decided to go with Greddy SP2 Exhaust because I have heard a ton of good things about it.....so of course I called Stillen to order it. The sales rep (Dean ext 182) was very helpful at first when we were talking about the diff between the Stillen and Greddy exhaust systems. I live in Vegas and Stillen is out in Orange County so he was trying to persuade me to get the Stillen because I could have it next day, once I told him that I wanted the Greddy, his tone quickly changed and he put me on hold for about 6 minutes only to come back on and tell me that if I wanted the Greddy it would take about 8 days to get. I'm like a kid in the candy sore when I get a new car and of course I want everything like yesterday, so against better judgement I went with the Stillen. The exhaust did not arrive the next day which I was promised, it took 4 days to get it.....not happy about that. I had an appt at the muffler shop to get it installed the next day which I had to cancel, so when it finally came in, I had to wait another 3 days before the install. So finally on the day of the install, I get a call from the muffler shop telling me that the exhaust isnt lining up and that its about 5 inches too short from all the factory hangers. I immediately called Stillen basically only to get the run around and telling me that these exhausts are factory specs and its the shop.....this was the shop recommended by Stillen mind you...all that aside I told them that maybe thsi exhaust was defective and could they please send out a new one, they said I had to return this one first which was not a problem....I returned the exhaust the same day (Tuesday) I tracked the package which I sent out overnight and paid for, they recieved it Wednesday and I was told that the exhaust was defective and I will be recieving a new one by Friday.... Its now almost a week and a half later and still no exhaust, I've left the rep tons of messages and never once got a call back.....I've since went ahead and ordered the Greddy and got it installed and couldnt be happier...I have not got a credit for the 895.00 I spent at Stillen and have not got a call back or anything.....I've spent over 6 grand with them in the last 2 months and this is how I get treated.... Sorry its sooo long but I wanted to let everyone know about my crappy experience with Stillen and that they have lost my business for good.

07 M45 Sport....liquid plat....20" Staggered EXE Konvex Wheels, BFG KDW2 tires, Ap Racing big break kit, HID license plate bulbs, Greddy SP2 Exhaust, Injen CAI, limo tinted (even windshield), smoked lights, Jet Chip, Custom VIP floor mats, EVERY possible factory option....1500 miles.

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,Often, where there is smoke, there is fire. Many of us here own the Y34 (2003-2004) M45 which has virtually no performance mods . Thus, there has not been much spoken bad or good of Stillen. However, reading your experience and Bfischer's, the quality of their customer service is called into question. Would be interesting to check out what the G owners have experienced with Stillen. They have several subforums here at NICO dedicated to mods and many seem to use Stillen. Hopefully these are isolated incidents.

Yblegall, Welcome to NICO. Congrats on your purchase. You are the first person I have seen do the Jet Chips mod. I seriously thought about doing it. The opinion around here was less than positive. How has your experience been? I know it removes the 145 speed limiter. Not sure beyond that.Cheers,ML

[Pashdut]

Hi Guys, first time posting but love the site....I recently bought an 07 M45 Sport that I found brand new at the dealer for a killer deal, I've spent the last 2 months adding a ton of mods and I wanted to chime in on the Stillen experience.....I have owned a ton of cars in my life and have always ordered parts from Stillen without issues.....I ordered a set of AP racing big brake kit front and rear, and an injen intake at first because I was still debaiting on which exhaust I was going to go with. The big brake kit is awesome and made a huge diff especially with the staggered setup of 20" EXE wheels and BGF KDW2 tires I put on and I love the sound of the intake....I finally decided to go with Greddy SP2 Exhaust because I have heard a ton of good things about it.....so of course I called Stillen to order it. The sales rep (Dean ext 182) was very helpful at first when we were talking about the diff between the Stillen and Greddy exhaust systems. I live in Vegas and Stillen is out in Orange County so he was trying to persuade me to get the Stillen because I could have it next day, once I told him that I wanted the Greddy, his tone quickly changed and he put me on hold for about 6 minutes only to come back on and tell me that if I wanted the Greddy it would take about 8 days to get. I'm like a kid in the candy sore when I get a new car and of course I want everything like yesterday, so against better judgement I went with the Stillen. The exhaust did not arrive the next day which I was promised, it took 4 days to get it.....not happy about that. I had an appt at the muffler shop to get it installed the next day which I had to cancel, so when it finally came in, I had to wait another 3 days before the install. So finally on the day of the install, I get a call from the muffler shop telling me that the exhaust isnt lining up and that its about 5 inches too short from all the factory hangers. I immediately called Stillen basically only to get the run around and telling me that these exhausts are factory specs and its the shop.....this was the shop recommended by Stillen mind you...all that aside I told them that maybe thsi exhaust was defective and could they please send out a new one, they said I had to return this one first which was not a problem....I returned the exhaust the same day (Tuesday) I tracked the package which I sent out overnight and paid for, they recieved it Wednesday and I was told that the exhaust was defective and I will be recieving a new one by Friday.... Its now almost a week and a half later and still no exhaust, I've left the rep tons of messages and never once got a call back.....I've since went ahead and ordered the Greddy and got it installed and couldnt be happier...I have not got a credit for the 895.00 I spent at Stillen and have not got a call back or anything.....I've spent over 6 grand with them in the last 2 months and this is how I get treated.... Sorry its sooo long but I wanted to let everyone know about my crappy experience with Stillen and that they have lost my business for good.

07 M45 Sport....liquid plat....20" Staggered EXE Konvex Wheels, BFG KDW2 tires, Ap Racing big break kit, HID license plate bulbs, Greddy SP2 Exhaust, Injen CAI, limo tinted (even windshield), smoked lights, Jet Chip, Custom VIP floor mats, EVERY possible factory option....1500 miles.

Pics please?

[bfischer]

Man... I don't feel so bad now. And thanks TT for reading my mind. I hate calling someone out on their opinion, everyone is entitled to one I guess... TT nailed it.

I don't think the Millen's are running the business... My old boss knows the Millens from the stadium and desert racing days - not to mention the recent drifting days and I doubt they would let this $hti fly. I will pass the word to him and see if he can't send an e-mail letting them know what is up.

[RED_DET]

Stillen's reputation has become questionable in the past few months. Here as of late, their sway bars have been breaking in half on the G35's. On one incident, the current owner of the car bought the vehicle with the sways already installed. He called Stillen to see if he could just buy another rear bar and explained what happened. Not only did they not stand behind their product and replace the item, they told him they couldn't just sell the rear bar. Another incident, the owner of the vehicle could not provide a receipt of purchase, so they wouldn't stand behind their product once again. This issue with Stillen is being discussed with the owner of this site. I'm not one that likes to get screwed over and nor do I like to see anyone else get this treatment.

[Pashdut]

Stillen's reputation has become questionable in the past few months. Here as of late, their sway bars have been breaking in half on the G35's. On one incident, the current owner of the car bought the vehicle with the sways already installed. He called Stillen to see if he could just buy another rear bar and explained what happened. Not only did they not stand behind their product and replace the item, they told him they couldn't just sell the rear bar. Another incident, the owner of the vehicle could not provide a receipt of purchase, so they wouldn't stand behind their product once again. This issue with Stillen is being discussed with the owner of this site. I'm not one that likes to get screwed over and nor do I like to see anyone else get this treatment.

Someone should e-mail this thread to them if you have their e-mail addy

[regtwelve]

Obviously I'm no authority in this matter as I believe I only have an opinion.

The person with the Stillen exhaust problem has a very legitimate gripe.

The 2nd owner sway bar issue, absolutely no legitimate gripe.If Stillen has a policy that performance parts warranties are only extended to the original purchaser, then they would be like many other companies. I can't imagine Expecting them to honor their warranty to a stranger. At that point it's a dead issue. You lost, they won. It's surely in black and white somewhere, but you wouldn't know as you simply came upon the items.

So as of now you'r standing on ground zero. You have nothing. You aren't a Stillen customer, you've paid them nothing. You've benefited them in no way. You'r just a guy off the street.

If they only sell the sway bars in pairs, then you'r going to have to buy a pair. Just because you lost out on the warranty issue, doesn't mean they are now obligated to sell a single bar. You'r just like any other person calling up looking to order a sway bar, but unfortunately they can only be ordered in pairs.

Now comes the "but the customer is always right" mentality, which absolutely no company blindly honors. The customer is always right only when he has no solid ground for which to stand. Because of course people range from quite reasonable to certifiably unreasonable, no company can simply do what people expect. Not only that, but once people reach the "customer is always right" boiling point, they probably will take their business elsewhere in the future regardless of the outcome.

I don't see how tale B and C have anything to do with the OP, whom I continue to presume has a lovely and quite competent wife, other than the mob mentality which this type of complaining attracts. In time I wouldn't be suprised to see x employees posting stories of discimination and harassment, followed of course by "go get em's" and "those bastards"...

I see only one legitimate gripe here yet it is spiraling into a Stillen rips people off type of thread.

[Pashdut]

Obviously I'm no authority in this matter as I believe I only have an opinion.

The person with the Stillen exhaust problem has a very legitimate gripe.

The 2nd owner sway bar issue, absolutely no legitimate gripe.If Stillen has a policy that performance parts warranties are only extended to the original purchaser, then they would be like many other companies. I can't imagine Expecting them to honor their warranty to a stranger. At that point it's a dead issue. You lost, they won. It's surely in black and white somewhere, but you wouldn't know as you simply came upon the items.

So as of now you'r standing on ground zero. You have nothing. You aren't a Stillen customer, you've paid them nothing. You've benefited them in no way. You'r just a guy off the street.

If they only sell the sway bars in pairs, then you'r going to have to buy a pair. Just because you lost out on the warranty issue, doesn't mean they are now obligated to sell a single bar. You'r just like any other person calling up looking to order a sway bar, but unfortunately they can only be ordered in pairs.

Now comes the "but the customer is always right" mentality, which absolutely no company blindly honors. The customer is always right only when he has no solid ground for which to stand. Because of course people range from quite reasonable to certifiably unreasonable, no company can simply do what people expect. Not only that, but once people reach the "customer is always right" boiling point, they probably will take their business elsewhere in the future regardless of the outcome.

I don't see how tale B and C have anything to do with the OP, whom I continue to presume has a lovely and quite competent wife, other than the mob mentality which this type of complaining attracts. In time I wouldn't be suprised to see x employees posting stories of discimination and harassment, followed of course by "go get em's" and "those bastards"...

I see only one legitimate gripe here yet it is spiraling into a Stillen rips people off type of thread.

ehh, anyone else think this guy is a rep working for Stillen or is it just me?

[szh]

Ummm ... no need for personal comments - on anybody's part, please! I seriously doubt that regtwelve has anything to do with Stillen, so let's not make comments like the above. He is expressing his thoughts and comments and opinions.

My opinion: in some cases, like the OP and exhaust situation for sure, I believe that Stillen needs to be responsive and resolve the problems. If the exhaust did not fit, and the correct part was ordered, etc., then it behooves them to return the money if the part did not fit.

However, the broken sway bar, particularly with a second owner, is a much fuzzier situation for sure. It depends a lot on whether the part was still under warranty, how long it had been, whether it was a manufacturing defect, or was mis-installed, etc., etc., etc.

Of course, some companies are better than others in dealing with such situations, but this is not one I would necessarily be upset with Stillen about. For good customer relations, I would want them to resolve the issue, of course.

I have asked Greg, the NICO owner, if he can look into the matter and see if he can help with Stillen - no promises, since it is not clear that we have that kind of contact with them. Let's leave it at that for the moment.

Z

[Pashdut]

Ummm ... no need for personal comments - on anybody's part, please! I seriously doubt that regtwelve has anything to do with Stillen, so let's not make comments like the above. He is expressing his thoughts and comments and opinions.

My opinion: in some cases, like the OP and exhaust situation for sure, I believe that Stillen needs to be responsive and resolve the problems. If the exhaust did not fit, and the correct part was ordered, etc., then it behooves them to return the money if the part did not fit.

However, the broken sway bar, particularly with a second owner, is a much fuzzier situation for sure. It depends a lot on whether the part was still under warranty, how long it had been, whether it was a manufacturing defect, or was mis-installed, etc., etc., etc.

Of course, some companies are better than others in dealing with such situations, but this is not one I would necessarily be upset with Stillen about. For good customer relations, I would want them to resolve the issue, of course.

I have asked Greg, the NICO owner, if he can look into the matter and see if he can help with Stillen - no promises, since it is not clear that we have that kind of contact with them. Let's leave it at that for the moment.

Z

it was just a joke

[szh]

it was just a joke

Uh ... okay. I missed that ... sorry!

Z

[RED_DET]

Well I tell you what. I purchased some sway bars from them this year. Now if one of them breaks for any reason not under my control, THEY BETTER STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT. In the first scenario, the guy didn't hassle them to replace the bar under any type of warranty, because he knew he wasn't the original owner of the car. He simply wanted to buy another bar so he could fix the issue. Hell he was a better person than I would have been, because I would have sent the bars back to them and surely wouldn't buy any more. Now the second scenario is a bit different, now the last time I checked when you order something online, how is payment made. Do you send Stillen Cashiers checks or Money Orders? I don't think so. How about COD, not gonna happen either. So what other way were they paid for, Credit Card of course. So there is a record and a receipt of payment on one piece of paper. It just seems to me that in these instances, Stillen's Customer Service is lacking a bit, but hell what do I know. Regardless of what the issues were or are, they all should be handled professionally, which they were not IMHO. Now anywhere in my posts did I say Stillen rips people off? No, my issue is with customer service.

By the way Matt, how long have you lived in PA? I got family in PA.

[regtwelve]

My name is Matt so if your asking me then well I live in DE where I've lived pretty much all my life.

If you'r planning to send your fam to beat me up because you think I'm mean then I'll warn you I'm a pro cage fighter.

If you'r talking to another Matt then nevermind.

[szh]

Folks, arguing here simply does not make sense.

We do not know all the circumstances and issues ... suffice it to say that some people do appear to be having problems with Stillen products and their Customer Support.

If NICO can do something to help here, we will try - I will report back on this later if it is possible. If not, then clearly, people can send their money elsewhere and stop buying from Stillen, if they wish to! Maybe Stillen will get the message ...

In the meantime, let's keep this discussion on topic, so that I do not need to edit posts or lock it down. If you have had bad or good experiences with Stillen products or their Customer Support, please report it here.

Thanks for listening!

Z

[rn79870]

Now comes the "but the customer is always right" mentality, which absolutely no company blindly honors. The customer is always right only when he has no solid ground for which to stand. Because of course people range from quite reasonable to certifiably unreasonable, no company can simply do what people expect. Not only that, but once people reach the "customer is always right" boiling point, they probably will take their business elsewhere in the future regardless of the outcome.

Let me add a little wisdom from a sales manager's point of view.No company has, nor will any company ever, win an argument with a customer. It just doesn't happen. All the company wins is a dissatisfied customer who will miss no opportunity to express his dissatisfaction to other potential customers. In this day of the Internet, that is especially true.

[Pashdut]

Let me add a little wisdom from a sales manager's point of view.No company has, nor will any company ever, win an argument with a customer. It just doesn't happen. All the company wins is a dissatisfied customer who will miss no opportunity to express his dissatisfaction to other potential customers. In this day of the Internet, that is especially true.

As a store manager of a high end retail flooring company (i.e. Tiles, Marble, Granite, etc) I beg to differ. When a client is dissatisfied with the service we offer, or the material, we will do anything in our power to satisfy that client to keep returning to us (and they do!) So I don't know how you run things at your company, but I do not let clients slip through because of a cracked tile that was in the box (even though it was the shippers fault). I replace the tiles free of charge, and move on, because I know in this day of age where competition is intense in most fields, the best advertising is word of mouth

[szh]

Actually, I think you guys are in agreement, not differing!

Look at what rn79870 really said: he was essentially pointing out that the company needs to do the right thing, because arguing with the customer is not gonna work. Because, they may "win" one and lose in the long run.

EDIT: Oops, I just realized the possible confusion in what I said above. In the phrase, "they may 'win' one and lose in the long run", the word "they" refers to the company!

Z

[Pashdut]

Actually, I think you guys are in agreement, not differing!

Look at what rn79870 really said: he was essentially pointing out that the company needs to do the right thing, because arguing with the customer is not gonna work. Because, they may "win" one and lose in the long run.

Z

I don't know but I don't see it that way. If the customer wins and is satisfied, the company will win in the long run with other potential clients.

[szh]

I don't know but I don't see it that way. If the customer wins and is satisfied, the company will win in the long run with other potential clients.

Hmmm, I really do think you need to read rn79780's post more carefully ... the approach is different, but the intent is the same.

Paraphrasing (my words): He said "If a company does not try to resolve a problem for a customer, they will express their dissatisfaction to other potential customers. And, given the Internet, the publicity will be negative."

Paraphrasing (my words): You said "If a company resolves a problem for a customer, they will express their satisfaction to other potential customers. And, given 'word of mouth', the publicity will be positive".

Both of the above are trying to set the same requirement on the company: "Do the right thing for the customer" - even though he is saying: "If you don't, you lose customers" and you are saying "If you do, you win customers".

Does that explain better what I was trying to say? If yes, good! If not, let's agree to let it rest and not argue about it anymore, OK?

Z

[Pashdut]

Hmmm, I really do think you need to read rn79780's post more carefully ... the approach is different, but the intent is the same.

Paraphrasing (my words): He said "If a company does not try to resolve a problem for a customer, they will express their dissatisfaction to other potential customers. And, given the Internet, the publicity will be negative."

Paraphrasing (my words): You said "If a company resolves a problem for a customer, they will express their satisfaction to other potential customers. And, given 'word of mouth', the publicity will be positive".

Both of the above are trying to set the same requirement on the company: "Do the right thing for the customer" - even though he is saying: "If you don't, you lose customers" and you are saying "If you do, you win customers".

Does that explain better what I was trying to say? If yes, good! If not, let's agree to let it rest and not argue about it anymore, OK?

Z

wow Hosain, I think you should be voted for Moderator of the Decade! Thanks for the clarification.