Stillen 5.6L supercharger, C.A.R.B. in question

[Thrust_Titan]

This is a sad day for me. It started on May 7, 2007. I was reading through a thread titled (This Is A Problem) on CT and to find out members here were having trouble with there Titans. After reading through the thread, I read the installation instructions and to my surprise, many concerns started to arise. So I posted my concern and it goes unanswered. I then started a new thread. So now it will be addressed. I got the feeling that it upset some of the members and I’m sorry if it hurt your feelings. I am a proud member here and at other forums and as a member came responsibilities and loyalty to the membership. A good member is obligated to post the truth and concerns for others to consider and evaluate. Now I have a dilemma and I’m really ticked about it. Posting this information is really going to destroy some of you and not posting is turning my back on the membership. I am really mad at Kyle Millen right now for the position I’m in. It is no ones else’s fault but Kyle Millen’s.In the past weeks I have been looking into this matter (you can download the installation instructions at http://www.stillen.com/product...t.pdf ), Kyle Millen directed me to C.A.R.B. as an answers to my earlier questions to him. I was floored with the information I discovered. Now I’m more concerned than ever. I do not know why Kyle Millen has the need to offer false information to the consumer, but it appears it was the need to make their product look better and safer than what it is. I assume that Kyle Millen didn’t think that the consumer has the ability to read or comprehend the Executive Order from C.A.R.B. On Monday May 14, 2007 a representative from C.A.R.B. left a message for his contact at Stillen to discuss this kit, and as of Friday May 18, 2007 he had not received a reply from Stillen. .Here are some quotes from Kyle Millen at Steve Millen Sportparts, Inc. in the forum at CT http://www.clubtitan.org/forum...33067 .(Kyle Millen at Steve Millen Sportparts, Inc.)“There is no raw fuel being dumped into the exhaust. An easy way for me to point that out is that it is not emissions legal to do that. This kit has CARB legality. There is absolutely no way we could submit the vehicle to CARB if this kit just dumped fuel out.”.(Kyle Millen at Steve Millen Sportparts, Inc.) “3) (and this one is the most important) Reliability. The kit has to be proven to be reliable. If CARB feels that the kit will damage any part of the vehicle then you will not get CARB certification.” .(Kyle Millen at Steve Millen Sportparts, Inc.) “Our Titan went through on the first try.”.(Kyle Millen at Steve Millen Sportparts, Inc.) “You asked me whos vehicle went to CARB. I'm not sure what difference it makes but it was mine. The other Titans that we have here are pre-production vehicles. In order for the test to happen the vehicle being tested has to have been purchased from a dealership to ensure that it is in factory/production trim (other than the part being tested.)”.The Executive Order D-436-11 clearly states NO CLAIM OF ANY KIND, SUCH AS “APPROVED BY THE AIR RESOURCES BOARD” MAYBE MADE WITH RESPECT TO THE ACTION TAKEN HEREIN IN ANY ADVERTISING OR OTHER ORAL OR WRITTEN COMMUNICATION. .You can download the Executive Order D-436-11 from the following link http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/after...1.pdf and see for yourself that a 2004 Nissan 350Z with a 3.5 liter engine was used “not” Kyle’s Titan as he claims and C.A.R.B. DOES NOT CHECK THE RELIABILITY OF ANY PRODUCT AND HAS NO OPINON ABOUT ANYTHING. Executive Order D-436-11 states that “The Stillen Supercharger Kit consists of a Magnuson Products, Inc. supercharger assembly that is rated at a maximum boost of 6.0 pounds per square inch. The kit also includes an upper intake manifold, a supercharger bypass valve, an add-on fuel injector that uses a metal fuel rail, an intercooler, and a stand alone fuel management unit to operate the additional fuel injector. Installation of the supercharger kit requires the rerouting and replacement of the positive crankcase ventilation hose; the new hose has a SAE30R7 rating. All fuel lines added are manufactured out of metal. The kit retains the stock air cleaner housing.”.***One single fuel injector controlled by a relay*** you will find this in the 350Z, G35 and FX35 kit, and has passed C.A.R.B. testing. NOT the eight additional fuel injectors controlled by an electronic control piggy back unit that was never tested! The difference between the two kits is like day and night. How do you make a mistake like that with “a combined experience of over 100 years”? (If anyone thinks this is a mistake, think again) I would think Stillen should know C.A.R.B. requirements as well as anyone, and for this to happen, leads me to believe that they are capable of making other catastrophic mistakes as well. .I have contacted Richard Muradliyan at C.A.R.B California Air Resources Board by email to confirm this and this is his email response .xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxMon 5/14/2007 8:37 PMThomas,I handle the Stillen kits for the ARB and it was our understanding that the 5.6L trucks only use one extra injector as part of the kit, as listed in the Executive Order description. I do have a call into my contact at Stillen to discuss this kit. The reason why they got 5.6L trucks is that the vehicle they tested had cleaner tailpipe emissions than the 5.6L trucks, and if the kits are the same than you always test the cleanest vehicle. Thanks again for the information and I'll let you know what I find out..thanksRich.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxThu 5/17/2007 12:48 PM Rich,Is there any new information on the Stillen supercharger kit for the 5.6L motor? Have you found it to be in any violation of the order description? Has there been a revocation of this order, D-436-11. Would there or could there be any penalties? What is the procedure if found to be in violation? What recourse does the consumer's have if revoked? In regards to any correspondence between you and I, may I quote you?.Thank you,.Tommy.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxThu 5/17/2007 5:22 PM I have not heard back yet from Stillen..thanksRich.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

This is clearly a violation of the Executive Order, but we will see what happens. It still leaves the original question of dumping fuel into the exhaust. I do question Kyle Millen and Stillen’s (Steve Millen Sportparts, Inc.) integrity at this point. For those of you that are thinking of buying a supercharger, Caveat Emptor, and for those of you that have a supercharger, I do not know what will happen or what recourse the consumer's have, if revoked? I would think, you might want to contact C.A.R.B. Richard Muradliyan (626) 575-6798 [email protected] and maybe a lawyer to see what they have to say. ..As far as I’m concerned with this, I’m finish with it, let the fuel flow it doesn’t matter anymore!.Jesus said "...you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

[Big-Bird]

Let me see if I read this right. There is a total of 16 injectors after the installation of said blower?

And there is a relay that controls them? Is that right?

[AZhitman]

You might want to be the one contacting an attorney:

To all you guys interested in the Stillen 5.6L Kit here is an email I sent Thomas who had informed me of the mistake. At the California Air Resources Board's Aftermarket Parts Section we work with companies like Stillen to help them get their parts legal for sale in California. This is a free service and the only cost to aftermarket companies is the cost of testing which is done at an independent laboratory. When a company submits an application to us we look into the products they want to exempt and pick the worst case. On superchargers we focus on max boost pressure which is part of the testing process at the independent laboratory. Since Stillen had a 6 psi kit for both Nissan passenger cars and V8 trucks we picked the passenger car with one injector fuel enrichment as the worst case test vehicle. The passenger car is certified to a cleaner emission standard when compared to the V8 truck. Emissions testing that Stillen had to do which was the same testing that Nissan did to sell these vehicles was a CVS-75 emissions test (easy type of test cycle, not to fast and not to hard on the throttle), US06 emissions test (High speed, hard on throttle), and an AC2 emissions test (similar to the CVS-75 but with the AC compressor on). A supercharger kit may fail the US06 test cycle due to a lean burn condition during boost. Stillen's product passed all testing. Hope this helps, and Stillen will be issued a corrected Executive Order which will be posted on our web site. If you have any questions I can be reached at [email protected] or 626 575 6798

thanksRich

Thomas,

Sorry to get back to you so late but I did hear back from my contact at Stillen last Friday and we did go over the Executive Order and all the supporting documents that went with it. The mistake was on our side because we failed to include an addition description for the V8 applications in the Executive Order. The vehicle that was tested (2004 model year Nissan 350Z, LEV II LEV emissions certified) was the worst case vehicle for the vehicle applications that were presented to us as part of their exemption application, the Nissan 5.6L trucks are emissions certified to a less stringent emission standard (LEV I LEV and LEV I SULEV). If you have any other questions please email me or you can contact me at 626 575 6798.

thanksRich

Looks like C.A.R.B. were the ones who goofed. Nice try.

[Big-Bird]

Gotta say Greg: YOu are spot on with your comments both here and the Mods Forum.

If the initial rant is the result of mis-information, he-said, they said and so on I can understand how this issue could get as big and as widespread on other Nissan Forums. That being said I am going to lock this thread for now and quite possibly have the admin remove it to the archives for future purposes.

Also for others who read this posting: If you have a legitimate beef with a trucks supplier/manufacturer I would appreciate a PM to myself before posting it here. We the ADMINS do quite often have other resources at our disposal that could potentially help you. Although this string didn't do any name calling...which by the way is how I expect legit beefs to be aired, it garnered little attention. With that in mind I am of the opinion that flaming a business or individual usually leads to more flaming and that really irks me when a respected forum turns into a monkey-poop-flinging-contest. I simply won't have that on the NICO trucks forum as long as I have a say.