Steering pinion adjustment - 97 Maxima SE

[goose]

My steering has developed a tendency to drift. There is basically no friction to keep the wheel still, so at highway speeds I almost can't hold the wheel still enough to keep straight. The linkages and alignment have been checked multiple times, and is ok. Three different sets of tires, the works. It's gotten progressively worse since 80k miles, I'm now at 122k.

Nissan TSB 00-037B describes the basic checks, but last it mentions the pinion tension adjustment. This really looks like the issue, but the local dealer want $200+ to do it, and I can't bring myself to do it. The other local dealers didn't even call me back with an estimate. He also says it will need a front end alignment, which doesn't make sense to me.

1) Is a front end alignment necessary if the outer tie rod ends are popped off and replaced? It would seem to me they should return to the exact same place on reassembly.

So I look under the car, and the stinkin rack adjustment screw is almost completely obscured by the frame. Normal tools won't work for servicing this rack, it appears.

2) Where can I get the kent-moore tool to adjust this nut?

TIA.

Dave

[goose]

1) Is a front end alignment necessary if the outer tie rod ends are popped off and replaced? It would seem to me they should return to the exact same place on reassembly.

Edit: not replaced with new parts, merely popped off and popped back on without altering their adjustment.

[s13sr20chris]

if you just removed tie rod ends from the steering knuckle then that should not mess up your alignment. if you pulled them off the inner tie rods then you would have to be really good AND really lucky to get them back on just right. i would say alignment is prob the issue but you prob need to find a shop that will do a real alignment. if that is not your prob then i guess i could see adjusting the rack and pinion tension but you are a)opening up a big can of worms and b)prob not going to have any luck.

[IvoryJ30t]

you might be better off replacing the rack, rack bushings, and tie rods and ends.

[goose]

Thanks for the responses. The car was aligned for a 3rd time in the last 40k just last month by a tire shop using a new Hunter 8300(?) alignment setup.

Replace it all? Ouch.

1) OEM steering racks are obscenely expensive, so where would I get a good used steering rack?

2) wouldn't installing a whole new set be more difficult?

3) if I resort to replacement, I may as well open the can of worms and try to adjust mine first. I figure I could leave the tie rods aattached and tighten the pinion tension nut little by little (like 1/16th turn, then road test). Still where do I get the tools?

Dave

[IvoryJ30t]

i meant a rebuilt rack. a factory new rack is not something you want to have to pay for.

[s13sr20chris]

well you can get the tools from a nissan dealer. i dont see any reason why they would not order them for you(and tack up the price). you could also get them from a snap-on or mac dealer.

[goose]

Well I had the job completed today. I went to a reputable independent mechanic and got raped for $713.

They adjusted the rack, replaced both rack inner boots, and one of the rack bushings.

The car drives well now - the correct tension range is 40-48lb, and mine started at 35-37. It is now at 47-48lb. It holds a line much better and rides more smoothly.

The cost was excessive due to the fact the pinion adjustment nut is located against the subframe, and the mechanic removed the subframe, y-pipe to get to it. Total billed labor = $421. In the TSB, the illustration shows the nut on the opposite (front, lower) side and easily accessible. Had I known the cost would even approach $500 I would never had done it.

To make things more sickening, they bought Kent-Moore tool #J35999 for $32 to measure the force. Don't ever buy this tool. It's a $5 fish weighing scale (complete with measuring tape) in a Kent-Moore box. I joked with the guy about needing one when we were planning this job over the phone, but sadly I was right. Go to Walmart and buy a cheapass 0-50lb fishing scale.

I feel badly ripped off by Nissan about now. There was no labor estimate associated with this TSB to even warn me of it.

Dave

[goose]

I still have two questions for the Nissan mechanics in here:

1) The 98-081 TSB specifies 40-48lb for the sliding force.The 00-037B TSB specifies 49-64lb sliding force. My source (alldatadiy) doesn't clearly state the

00-037B as superceding 98-081 - does it supercede? (My rack was set to 48lb, which would then be

incorrect)

2) Is it necessary to drop the y-pipe and subframe, or can you simply unbolt and reposition the

steering rack?

3) What amount of labor seems appropriate for this job, assuming they adjust the rack only once?

Dave

[IvoryJ30t]

by taking the car to a shop, your at the mercy of the flat rate labor guide.

you better believe that if a job books for 5 hours, and it takes the shop 3 hours, you gonna still be paying for 5 hours of labor.

every shop i have worked in charged book time, not real time.

[s13sr20chris]

worse yet, if the book says 5 and it only takes 3 but it looks like 7...well, you may just pay 7. the 00 tsb does supercede the 98 tsb. i have never done one so i cannot say wether it is necessary or not. for the same reason i am not sure what a fair labor time is. what i will tell you is that its a free market bro. they can charge you anything they want and you can tell them to kiss your butt.

[goose]

worse yet, if the book says 5 and it only takes 3 but it looks like 7...well, you may just pay 7. the 00 tsb does supercede the 98 tsb. i have never done one so i cannot say wether it is necessary or not. for the same reason i am not sure what a fair labor time is. what i will tell you is that its a free market bro. they can charge you anything they want and you can tell them to kiss your butt.

I'm not trying to screw them - 2 nissan dealers just quoted 2 and 3 hours of total labor (no parts) respectively. These twits agreed to 'about 2' beforehand, and spent 7, without my consent. And when they called me to discuss the car staying another day (exactly halfway through the job) they failed to mention they were already overbudget and bloating fast. So the bottom line is the 'book' says 2-3, they talked about 2-3, and they took 7. Without my consent.

So since this is between me and them, I intend to go into the service manager and discuss several problems:

1) they did the procedure to the 98 TSB, instead of the 00 TSB (which I handed to them in print). I guess they dug up the 98 TSB on their own. So the rack is now set to the out-of-date force amount.2) they dropped the exhaust and subframe unnecessarily, and of course I ate the bill for that. Both Nissan dealers confirmed this is unnecessary.3) they didn't replace the right parts (they did only one rack bushing, and did rack boots when I asked for CV boots)4) they charged me for a 4 wheel alignment after we discussed a 2-wheel alignment and they didn't touch the rear of the car.

I chose these guys because at first they listened better than the dealer and they were much more convenient. One person recommended them. Afterward, another person suggested they were really schiesters. I'm not attacking mechanics, I'm attacking mechanics who run up the bill without my consent and don't follow instructions.

So basically they wasted a whole lot of my money and didn't even tighten the rack to the correct specs which I also provided. I don't want to have them 'make it right' since the money is more important. I'll do it myself this time.

I will go back tomorrow and negotiate, and have them reduce the labor to the dealer estimates - saving me about $250. If they don't, I will fill out negative (but fair) feedback on their feedback card. If it gets ugly I will file a complaint with the BBB, state attorney general, and write a nice letter to their franchise headquarters.

Dave

[s13sr20chris]

sounds like a plan bro. if you only authorized 2-3 hours then they should not have gone over. there is no reason to mess with the rear end on a non wrecked max.

[IvoryJ30t]

i agree with that. if they gave you a printed quote that consisted of 3 hours of labor, and went CONSIDERABLY over without your consent, they should eat the bill.

not to mention that they ignored your specific request [the 00 TSB] and went with one of their choosing.

[goose]

OK, the final follow-up.

I went back yesterday and discussed the matter with the shop. Basically, I can't try to squeeze these guys because they were justified in all of their work. The two actual mistakes I feel they made were:1) they didn't mention the overage of labor (communications issue b/t mechanic, svc. mgr, and me)2) they adjusted the rack to the old specification. This one isn't really their fault since the TSB I gave them didn't have the date on it, and using Nissan's TSB database only turns up the old one. You have to dig deeper to get the new TSB. Out of the five shops (including 3 dealers) that I discussed this job with, all of them did NOT find the latest TSB. So basically I blame Nissan for that.

They did in fact replace both rack bushings, even though the bill mentioned one. They showed me both of the old bushings.

The excessive labor involving the removal of the exhaust and subframe was mostly due to replacement of the rack bushings and rack bellows (inner tie rod boots). Also the shop was unable to obtain the two low-profile SST wrenches specific for the job. He said they tried to buy all 3 SSTs but could only get 1 of them - the fish scale. The mechanic said dropping the exhaust and frame was to do the bushings and boots. Lesson to learn - if you ever have your rack removed, or your exhaust out, that is a great time to replace steering rack boots and bushings. Or get a quote on the bushing / boot replacement in advance to be sure you don't get jammed.

The mechanic accessed everything from under the car using a lift. I know some parts may be accessible from above (upper rack mounting bolts), but since my car has ABS that reduces accessibility a bunch. (On ABS 4th-gen Maximas, just changing the fuel filter is a *****).

I was billed for 6-1/4 hours labor at $68/hr, and they originally dropped 2 hours from my bill.

The alignment is a '4 wheel' since they account the rear wheels when setting the front. Apparently the only time a true 2 [edit] wheel alignment happens is on solid-beam rear axle vehicles with no adjustments.

I could have been a prick and demanded money back, but I've been in their shoes when circumstances drive up costs and it's nobody's fault. But I'm not going back there, and if I can ever get my hands on those 2 SST wrenches I'll do it again myself. And I'll take pictures and do a complete write-up so noone else needs to deal with this crap again.
Modified by goose at 10:45 AM 9/17/2004

[s13sr20chris]

And I'll take pictures and do a complete write-up so noone else needs to deal with this crap again.

werd