steering and suspension input?

[johnnyballs180]

alright, guys, i'm about to the point where i really need to upgrade my steering and suspension.i don't drift.. i'll just put that out there.my kind of racing involves tight cornering at around 140km/h up and down small roads.. and really crappy roads at that. i'm getting a lot of body roll and steering response is slow and not very consise.greddy has this "type s suspension coilovers" kit that sounds about right for me. since the roads i travel on are old and can get real bumpy, i want to avoid a really stiff setup, so i'm not bouncing everywhere.

anybody have luck with a setup like this?fr sports has it:http://www.frsport.com/GReddy-....html

if not this, then what kind of setup would you recomend? i'm just now getting into the suspension part of things, so i don't have much hands-on experience with all this.

ANY input would be great! thanks

[boro drift]

If you're going to buy a set of coil overs, and the with the road conditions you are describing, I would go with TEIN type Flex.

[aznrib]

I would do a basic set of coils and a set of swaybars. Suspension Technique(ST) makes anti-roll bars that are not too aggressive and still ride nice. As for coilovers spl sells KTS coilover that ride pretty nice and are good on handling. http://www.splparts.com/main4/main/default.htm

If you can afford the greddy type s, it'll ride pretty nice since it has a 46mm piston diameter.

[johnnyballs180]

it's funny you mentioned the type S; i bought a set about eight hours ago. lolEDIT: i forgot i linked the fr sport page in the original post.

i looked at the tein type flex that boro drift suggested, but i had a hell of a deal on the greddys.tomorrow i'll put 'em on, along with some new brake pads, and see how everything works. ...to be honest, i'm really paranoid while driving. ever since my wheel nearly came off the other week, i stick my head in and out the car, trying to hone in on any "abnormal" sounds, expecting something catastrophic to happen. i had to cut short my race last night because i kept thinking i was hearing...something.i still don't have any idea what it was, or if it even existed.. hopefully this paranoya will soon go away.

..watch, next thing that happens is my other wheel falling off.
Modified by johnnyballs180 at 8:37 AM 10/27/2008

[S133P3R]

i just put on a rebuilt steering rack complete with tein tie rods and a new energy steering bushing in addition to my street series coilovers and adjustable tension rods, i cannot believe how different the car feels after the addition of the rack bushing and rack. let me know if you upgrade your sway bars as i am interested in upgrading those next. good luck!

[lbkidsr20]

where did you get the rebuilt steering rack?

[S133P3R]

i basically stole it from a private seller for $200 p/u , with tein inner and outer tie rods! figured if i was already gonna buy tie rods for $150+ and also my rack was lookin haggard, so it was time for a change. the install was eaasy but dirty, to sy the least. im working on a write-up, which i will post here in the near future.....

[johnnyballs180]

when my dad and i rebuilt a hachi a long time ago, we ended up changing every piece of the suspension. a lot of it was new or rebuilt oem parts, but the goodies all came from techno toy tuning. their prothane kit made a huge difference.of course, this was all on his dime.. THAT was the biggest difference

i need to recuperate my wallet, and then we'll talk sway bars.lol

[S133P3R]

i found the rack bushing for $10 shipped in the classified section. the installation of that bushing is easy too esp with experience, which it sounds like you have.

[johnnyballs180]

10 bucks isn't a lot, but i'm going to try my BEST to take a break from buying right now. i just started adding numbers in my head, and damnit.. i could have put a small down-payment on a damn house. HAH! i'm never going to see my money back from this car, but at least i had fun..... most of the time. part of the time sucked *** and i never want to deal with it again. like dropping an s13 transmission.and as far as experience, i pretty much learn as i go. i'm blessed with a fully functional brain which really helps too.like i read this post on here a little while ago, some guy talking about turbo swaps or something and the coolant and oil lines. some other guy chimed in and said something like, "you don't need to run the coolant lines if you have an intercooler."i think he was serious, and he kept repeating it. for a second i thought, "hmm. .... ...wait, what?"

i've been wrong a million times, and that's okay because i learn.. that's part of the fun i guess.

[S133P3R]

ya, im right there with you. cant imagine i would be able to live in my s13 HB, being 6'4"... MORE POWER TO THE DIYers! just did my rack swap with just the service manual and some wrenches.... manual makes it seem so easy, hahaha. now my steering wheel is mis-aligned but it handles like new. looks like its time to get greasy again .

[johnnyballs180]

loli feel you. i hated doing the steering wheel alignment on my hachi. it wasn't especially hard, and it was pretty easy considering a 4ag motor is small and there's LOTS of room for your hands and arms.just had to loosen the steering shaft (i think that's what it's called? it has splines and you can pull it out, turn it, and put it back in), adjust, tighten, and drive in a straight line to see where the wheel sat.what a pain. for me that'd be really sh*tty because it takes me 5 minute sto back out of my driveway. it's a real sharp curb which regular cars have a hard time getting up.i'm about ready to get a pick axe and smooth it out

[johnnyballs180]

so i slapped on the greddys earlier today, and so far, big difference! the ride's a ton smoother and a lot more responsive and concise. i need to lower the front down a little... maybe 20mm.. i'll see.but so far thumbs up on the set.

[S133P3R]

you messed with the dampening yet adjustments yet? im still playing with mine. I think i need sway bars now, well i know i need bushings atleast. hows that wallet recuparating?

[johnnyballs180]

the wallet's in the ICU... on life-support. i don't know if it'll make it..

lol

i'll fiddle with the damping stuff over time. i think maybe softer might be better for the bumps, so my wheels don't bounce off all of them, but on the other hand, if my body's always bouncing on the springs, that can't be good either. guess it's a balance thing huh?

S133P3R, do you race? and what kind?

[S133P3R]

i actually just back from the burial service for my bank account.... hahahIm not tracking my car right now as i cannot afford for my DD to break anymore than it will on its own.... if that makes sense?I do like to drive ortega highway, grip style (the guardrails are sh*t up there, so no practice drifting) http://maps.google.com/maps?q=...ab=wl frequently, cuz I was living on the lake side and driving over to the 5fwy side everyday for work and back. road is really dangerous, couple of my motorcycle buddies have crashed and one even lost his life (RIP JUAN). the road has been closed in the middle starting from 8pm to 4am for construction, so a few nights id race up the lake side and just go up and down till i ran out of gas. not looking for "battle races" just feeling my car out.

I feel the same "bounce" on my car, sometimes it feels like jello even with coilovers. I only have megan racing street series coils so the quality isnt near those greddys, but it was mainly to slightly upgrade my blown shocks till i can re-address the situation, most likely when i win the lottery. I think sub-frame inserts would help but am not sure... im thinking of ordering some. also, does your shift nob and bounce alot? like when you are on a lumpy road?

[liquid_cool]

10 bucks isn't a lot, but i'm going to try my BEST to take a break from buying right now. i just started adding numbers in my head, and damnit.. i could have put a small down-payment on a damn house. HAH! i'm never going to see my money back from this car, but at least i had fun..... most of the time. part of the time sucked *** and i never want to deal with it again. like dropping an s13 transmission.and as far as experience, i pretty much learn as i go. i'm blessed with a fully functional brain which really helps too.like i read this post on here a little while ago, some guy talking about turbo swaps or something and the coolant and oil lines. some other guy chimed in and said something like, "you don't need to run the coolant lines if you have an intercooler."i think he was serious, and he kept repeating it. for a second i thought, "hmm. .... ...wait, what?"

i've been wrong a million times, and that's okay because i learn.. that's part of the fun i guess.

racing is the ability to turn money into sound!

[liquid_cool]

s133r: I used to drive ortega HWY when i lived in upland heading to sandiego for weekend runs...its a blast..back then i was spoting a honda prelude..the flat trunk one..you will have a blast..road is **** now thou so watch the sandy area's....have fun and be safe.

[johnnyballs180]

yeah, when the funds start to go low, so does the frequency of my racing. in my experience, the WORST things happen when you're broke.....then again, things don't always seem as bad when you've got a lot of bank, yea?

i still have a mile-long list of things i want... i haven't touched the internals of the motor, and i've about pushed it as far as it can go, minus a good tune, without changing some of the insides. ak;lfjla uhfq3;oifjs;qk

the bounce isn't TOO bad, but i'll stiffen it up just a tad. i'm also going to drop the front a little here in a little bit; i'll take some pics

and yea, the shift knob bounces a little bit. the knob is wheighted real heavy too.. i don't know how much that affects the bounce. but the car bounces, the motor and the transmission bounces, it's only normal, yea?why do you ask?

[S133P3R]

just curious, mine just kinda bounces around. doesnt seem broken I guess just never notice it in other cars unless Im driving and have my hand on the shifter.

s133r: I used to drive ortega HWY when i lived in upland heading to sandiego for weekend runs...its a blast..back then i was spoting a honda prelude..the flat trunk one..you will have a blast..road is **** now thou so watch the sandy area's....have fun and be safe.

Totally, i have since moved back into orange county so I dont go up there unless Im really lookin to just drive alone in the dark. the road is in pretty good shape but they have to repave the whole thing now that the widening is almost done. I was lucky enough to go to a car show (cars and coffee) that was 6 or so miles up a private road (red fence acroos from Caspers park, sound familiar?), the drive was f*kin rad. all sorts of exoctics show up. we followed a few nice porsche's up the hill in my buddy's volvo S60R, which really couldnt keep up around the tight turns but was a blast on the short straights.

[johnnyballs180]

oh, S133P3R, i did get some sway bars yesterday. they're cusco, and cost me about 350 bucks for front and rear.they HAD to be the easiest thing i ever installed. putting in my friggen razo shift knob was more of a pita. hahaha

it's been raining here real bad, so all the roads are real wet. i don't even mess around when it's raining.. too many bad experiences. i can't tell you how the sway bars work yet. hopefully tonight the rain will subside, and if that's the case, i'll let you know how they work. i'll also post some pics up. i never did take pics of my coilovers either..

[S133P3R]

what size sway bars did you end up purchasing? the install doesnt look too hard, but neither did the FSM about steering racks... I think a sway bar works by using force from the one wheel to hold the other wheel to the ground, tunable with different end links and different thickness sway bars. with that being said, anyone wanna fill in the blanks? any comparative info would help...thicker sway bar =___________thinner sway bar =__________

[johnnyballs180]

28mm front, 18mm rear, non adjustable. now that i think of it, i would have rather gotten something a LITTLE thicker and adjustable, but these should be enough for now. i have a fairly stiff setup, so they'll be okay.

the only thing really holding me back at this point (other than my lack of the fast and the furious-type mad super awesome cool driving skills, is my tire setup. i put 20mm Kics spacers on the back, so that'll def help keep the back end from swinging out around the corners.. but i'd much rather have a set of yokohama AO48s like on my hachi.

*drool

i might be moving real soon off of this island, so i have to try to save money... HAH! like that's going to happen.

lol

anyway, here's from wikipedia (we all know some of it's b/s, but for the most part, it points you in the right direction),

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sway_bar#P ... rm....html

take everything with a grain of salt, though..

the thicker the bars are, the more weight is transfered to the other side. the second link up there makes it pretty clear:to eliminate oversteer: increase (diameter) of front/decrease rearto eliminate understeer: increase rear/decrease front.

and if you have an adjustable bar, you can correct under/oversteer without changing bars.

wikipedia says:"Because an anti-roll bar connects wheels on the opposite sides of the vehicle together, the bar will transmit the force of one-wheel bumps to the opposite wheel. On rough or broken pavement, anti-roll bars can produce jarring, side-to-side body motions (a "waddling" sensation), which increase in severity with the diameter and stiffness of the sway bars. Excessive roll stiffness, typically achieved by configuring an anti-roll bar too aggressively, will cause the inside wheels to lift off the ground during very hard cornering. "

probably the best way to know for sure what does who with what and when, is to go out and test them. we've already established that i'm starting to go broke, so it's pretty much a one-time buy at this point. i'll let you know tonight how mine worked out, if the rain stays away. it's looking grim though..

hey, so, tell me about your car. i want to know what kind of setup you're going for.

[MastaYu]

i basically stole it from a private seller for $200 p/u , with tein inner and outer tie rods! figured if i was already gonna buy tie rods for $150+ and also my rack was lookin haggard, so it was time for a change. the install was eaasy but dirty, to sy the least. im working on a write-up, which i will post here in the near future.....

I will be looking out for that writeup, definately gotta replace my steering rack and lines

[S133P3R]

I will be looking out for that writeup, definitely gotta replace my steering rack and lines

so as Im doing this project i realize that I cannot possibly take all the pictures and notes in any legible form due to the high amount of grease/oil/fluids that began to cover me as soon as I entered my engine bay, add the time constraints.... I could not manage to record the bolt sizes at all. I plan on getting under my car on saturday to re-align my steering column and record the bolt sizes, no promises, maybe next week?

my car presently: its a constant DIY work in progress... I have a USDM 1989 240SX complete with KA24E! I recently added Megan Coilovers (dropped around 2 inches), a rebuilt steering rack with tein inner and outer tie rods, and Megan Racing tension rods. I wasnt sure how Id like the feel of the coilovers and I need to replace the stock ones, so I went cheap. Alot of ppl talk sh*t on Megan products but I havent had any problems with my tension rods Ive had for over a year, 4 months of which consisted of 2 trips over the ortega hwy every day. lets see... uhmm, and uhmmm, some Magnecor race spec spark plug wires that are red like my car, haha. I am rebuilding J30 brakes from a junkyard and re-drilling the rotors to fit my four lugg-ness. just got some new tires but nothing serious, Falken ziex912, cuz Im rolling on steelies right now.

my car in the future: definitely need a motor swap cuz Im sure a truck somewhere could use mine... an RB20 would be nice but Im also considering VG30 as I hear that they are semi or fully street legal, probably build the motor as much as I can before its in the car. but Im still researching while I save money anyways, so any suggestions? A very light aggressive body kit and maybe rolled/pulled fenders, so It wont attract to much attention. I have some crazy ideas that dont fit in with the JDM style trends that are everywhere stateside these days... see signature (hehe).

[johnnyballs180]

lollooks like you've got some work cut out for yourself. i have a couple megan products, and no, no problems really. my manifold, though, is being a pain... it looks nice and everything, but it's obviously low qual. when i got it in the mail, the first thing i did was grab a dremel with a grinding bit and bored out the inside on the part that attaches to the turbo. it was real rough and when the tubes were welded together, there were sharp edges and extra steel just chillin', so i smoothed it out. then i used some cool heat wrap stuff, some ceramic fiber crap. i have a megan short shifter in the mail too, and some megan gauges. we'll see how it works out.

now why have you chosen to go between those two motors? i don't know about the vg30. my dad had a 300zx, non-turbo, and that thing was a B*TCH to work on. you couldn't fit your hand in the engine bay if your life depended on it! hahait really is a big motor.the rb20 doesn't sound too bad though. not a lot of parts in the states though, huh?

i think engines go kind of like trends, or phases. five years ago, everybody wanted an rb20, rb20, rb20. then there was the ca18 and sr20. now everybody's getting into the 1jz and 2jz..all i know is, i have an sr and it is THE most forgiving engine ever. my 4ag was nice too.i put my motor though hell everyday, and it holds up like a champ. lol

as far as your ideas and the jdm thing.. i dunno, i say go with what you think is right. screw everyone else. a lot of people base what they do off of Import Tuner and SCC and Turbo, who are all saying to go out and buy this and that... this is cool, that's not cool,TURBO DRIFT TURBO DRIFT DORI DORI DORI TURBO TURBO GIGANTIC RIMS HUGE STEREOS THREE MORTGAGES CHROME RIMZ LOLOLOLOLLUJLKL!!!!!!!!!!

a lot of people here are the same way. but at least there's a lot of really good drivers..

if you ever need anything "jdm" (lol) from here, let me know. i'm sure i can find it and we can paypal or something.

oh, quick question. do you know where i can find out the legalities of shipping cars/parts to the states? if i can't ship my car, i'd like to strip it and ship it piece by piece. i'm just afraid customs will snatch it and do something stupid.

[S133P3R]

you got AIM?with the US in the financial state its in, I can see "repo'd rims" in the near future, shoulda kept your house and stayed on stock alloys! hahaa.

Motors are indeed like trends, but i just want something that has options... SR20 is always in my mind too as they are a common swap. Id have to pay premium parts prices for RB20 stuff for sure, but its the next best thing to a Skyline, which is even further from my grasp....

i think the car would have to be disassembled and shipped in parts, as a "car kit" that is not intended for street use.... may be better off shipping just the parts you want and finding a shell here. look at this article and it gives you an idea of what you are working with....

any pics of your real to life JDM ride?

[johnnyballs180]

oh! i forgot to mention, the new bars are friggen sweet! i didn't think it'd make that much difference, but man, NIGHT AND DAY. when the car would normally want to swing out in the back around a corner, it just kept hugging this time. it was actually difficult to get the rear end to brake loose without being overly stupid.

get the sway bars. DO IT. lol

i'll put some pics in.

also, i don't have AIM. i don't even know what AIM is..

and there was no link in your last post, or i don't see it.

a p.o.s. skyline here with an rb20det goes for about 2000. a gtr r-32 goes for about 5500 - 8000, depending on year and condition. they're beat REAL hard though, as you could imagine. 33s go for about 20-25000, 34s about 30000+the 32 would be my first choice, because they're so cheap. parts are everywhere and aren't TOO bad.. but there's a lot of things that're going to break right after you buy it.still though..

probably the biggest thing i would look for is part availability. not just aftermarket stuff, but all the oem crap that routinely breaks. i don't know how the sr20 is there, though i hear there's quite a bit. not as much as the ka though, right?

hey, now, if my car's parted out and packed into many boxes, labeled as a "car kit," then does that mean i can't put it into a car and use it for street use?i mean, so many people there have 240s with sr20s in them.. how does that work?

getting a shell is probably what i'm looking at. but damn, what a hassle! here, cars are inspected every 2 years.. it's mandatory. i heard in the states, it's looked over between title transfers or something?i gotta keep researching. anyway, here's some pics. i forgot to take pics while doing the sway bar swap, so there's not anything to see. it looks just like the original, but blue and CLEAN. lol

anyway, here's the pics. i took them a few days ago. got any requests, lemme know.





i broke one side skirt, so i took them both off. i hate the mother effin curbs everywhere! it takes me five minutes to back out of my driveway, at a sharp angle, so i don't break anything. this particular day, i was in a rush though.... damnitttttttt.



the interior smells like a$$. ever since doing my clutch swap (os giken twin), i smell gear oil all the time. it REEKS. i probably spilled some somewhere..

the only think i have left to do for the time-being, is my new greddy-knock-off intake plenum. i've been waiting for a pipe from courtesyparts.com for friggen two and a half months now! that's all i need! after that, i'll TRYYYY to stop spending money. i fill up gas every week though..

[S133P3R]

nice ride! Im really considering sways for my next purchase as my bushings now look like garbage!AIM is AOL instant messenger, which is a common IM program over here in the states, guess this forum works pretty good too.7

heres the article i was talking about... http://www.nicoclub.com/articl...shtml

As far as I know, the SR20DET is not street legal in california. CA emission laws restrict engine swaps to motors that the car was originally sold with in the state ie KA. there are some legal LS (chevy v8) swaps and I think a VG or VH swap or something. you cannot drive an imported car as it never passsed US Dept of transportation (DOT) inspection tests for safety (see skyline article above). even though a JDM and USDM S13 chassis may look the same, there maybe some small differences that are in the USDM due to DOT regulations, maybe the US didnt get the brick headlights cuz the bumpers werent strong enough? IDK. If you shipped your car in parts, you may be able to get an illegal smog certificate but registration with the dept. of motor vehicles would be a PITA most likely. Vehicle inspection is done every 2 years in the form of emissions tests, i have never had any safety inspections buy I know some states require them. In california, police will give you whats called a "referee ticket," which in your case would not be good, which if received you have to visit a state controlled "referee" whom will inspect your car and tell you what needs to be done to make it legal, but its not fun... cars will not be street legal until all of the illegal modifications are removed or corrected, so if you have a JDM motor swap, you get the picture.... Emission tests are no cake walk either as any modifications to your engine will most likely make it fail.

skylines in the US, not including the R35 USDM, are pretty rare. I have never seen any model being sold for less than 30k USD, and thats not even taking into consideration the street lagal-ness of the car. there are special "show car" registrations you can get but they limit the amount of miles driven per year to, I think, 5000 or less and only to and from show events.

parts for the RB engines would have to be purchased online, the KA-t is something im reading up on.... seems that people have really good numbers with it, but right now Im running the KA24E, and would need a swap for the DOHC motor, maybe turbo the single cam? I ono, my motor has 175,xxx miles on it so Im thinking a rebuilt motor is in the cards as this one has been neglected too long. May keep the KA on a pallet and take it apart and just play with its blood and maybe build it as a back up....

so many decisions, I just wanted to buy a S13 and do donuts all day! lol. now Im lucky if my car drives in a straight line!

[liquid_cool]

no doubt! there widening it!?..sweet..i might have to make a reminicent run soon when its compleate..ortega or bust!