Stay outa my pockets

[EazyBreazy]

I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE. I'm already paying for mine. I'm already paying more to medicare than I do to social security. Yes, I understand that times are crappy right now and that people are hurting but that does not mean I should suffer too. I don't make alot of money, but I live within my means and save as much as I can so that in the event I lose my job I'll have the means to survive for a while.

If persons are under the age of 30 with families that need health care and are having trouble finding a job in their chosen profession they can do what I did earlier in life. Go join the military not only will you get a pay check but they will give you health care too. It's win win and win. You get money, health care and I get to keep my money.

If you want to force me to give up even more of my money let me pick where it goes. I'd gladly give that portion to a TRUE not for profit instead of the government. Hell I do that anyways sometimes.

I dunno, Maybe I'm a prick but the sad reality is I really don't give a damn if you don't have healthcare, or a job, or a place to live, or this or that or another. I've been in those situations. It's not that hard to flip a burger trust me and It's not my job to bail you out IMO.

What is my job is ensuring the health, welfare and happiness of my family and I would go to the ends of the earth to ensure that I did so. If that meant scrubbing the toilets at a truck stop then that's what I would do. So get off of your entitled a**'s and get a job. If you don't make enough for everything you need at the first job get a second job. If that's not enough find weekend work or pick up cans on the side of the road. Whatever you do though, Stay the hell out of my pockets I have my own idea as to how to donate my money.

Rant inside the Rant

I can't be alone in my hatred for the morons who decide to slow to 45 mph while they approach the offramp they intend to take off of the freeway. Do these morons not realize that they are a major hazard to people who are just doing the speed limit? Are they really that clueless? Are they the same morons that don't use the on ramp to get to the speed limit and generally merge going 15mph slower than the car on the freeway?

K i dun now

[themadscientist]

and off to the politics forum with you sir.

[EazyBreazy]

bah whatever lol, everyone in here agrees from what i've seen.

[themadscientist]

give it time.

[audtatious]

Go join the military not only will you get a pay check but they will give you health care too. It's win win and win. You get money, health care and I get to keep my money.

Except you pay for their housing, food, training, and health care in that situation as well

[AZhitman]

I dunno, Maybe I'm a prick but the sad reality is I really don't give a damn if you don't have healthcare, or a job, or a place to live, or this or that or another. I've been in those situations. It's not that hard to flip a burger trust me and It's not my job to bail you out IMO.

What is my job is ensuring the health, welfare and happiness of my family and I would go to the ends of the earth to ensure that I did so. If that meant scrubbing the toilets at a truck stop then that's what I would do. So get off of your entitled a**'s and get a job. If you don't make enough for everything you need at the first job get a second job. If that's not enough find weekend work or pick up cans on the side of the road. Whatever you do though, Stay the hell out of my pockets I have my own idea as to how to donate my money.

You, sir, are a true American.

I tip my hat to you.

[bobotech]

You, sir, are a true American.

I tip my hat to you.

Same here.

People are saying that only the super rich will have to pay for socialized healthcare but I know that down the road, that won't be true. Maybe for the first 6 months, first year, whatever it will be but as time goes on, the average middle class will end up paying for everyone's healthcare and then some.

[srellim234]

As someone who paid for your paycheck and your healthcare by having my pockets picked clean by the government, thanks for your military service but you've already been in my pockets to take care of yourself and your family.

As someone who is 55 and has cleaned those toilets as a custodian, recycled cans to make ends meet, pieced together four part time jobs in order to feed my family but none offered healthcare and private insurance wanted over 40% per month of what I was making, now that I do (through my wife's work, I might add) you might have a little more consideration for people who are busting their butts out there and getting the shaft from their employers and insurance companies.

At my age, military is not an option anyway. The last company I worked for? I was a corporate trainer and working in corporate operations for an $11 billion a year company. $26 billion bought us out, paid huge parachutes to the CEO, CFO, company president and chief legal officer and they told everyone else nationwide to take a hike.

My best friend? 29 1/2 years with a company and gets laid off 6 months before he gets his pension. He gets to start again from scratch in his 50s. With no college education and all those years of hard work and dedication to his company he gets squat.

Some people are busting there butts out here; not everyone is a lazy s.o.b. Sometimes as Americans we need to rise to the occasion and find a way to help those who really need it.

Coming from the pharmaceutical industry and seeing that 1 in every $794 spent on healthcare in theis country went directly into the pocket of the CEO of United Health, something is desperately wrong with our health insurance system and the industry will do nothing to address it. They've been corrupted by too much $$$$ to change it. Heck, look at how greedy the financial sector got. The healthcare industry is just the next one in line. Unfortunately, people are dying as a result.

[AZhitman]

Steve, I agree, and there's no shortage of compassion here.

But the current "plan" being foisted upon us (more like 'rammed down our throats') reeks of short-sightedness and knee-jerk political maneuvering.

Health care reform doesn't start with making sure everyone has coverage. It starts with fixing what's wrong with the current system.

BTW, go ask Pelosi why it's "Un-American" to point out FACTS... that the other gov't healthcare systems (Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA) are all bankrupt.

Apparently the Dems don't like it when the Right raises their voices.

[srellim234]

I don't mind the Reps if they are willing to have a discussion on the subject as opposed to acting like 3rd graders at town hall meetings and not willing to rationally discuss topics. Shouting people down because some corrupt healthcare consortium tricked you into doing it is not my idea of rational debate.

My personal feeling is that people should have to be willing to work for the benefits.

1. If you want to collect your unemployment, you should have to go sit on a bench for 8 hours a day for 3 days a week down at the unemployment office to collect. If you're sitting on the bench and someone comes in and offers you something similar to what the illegals are getting as day laborers on street corners now, you have to take it if you want to get paid. Watch how fast those people start busting their butts looking for work in order to avoid the bench.

Let the military patrol the southern border. Anyone headed south, let them go. Anyone headed north, you are trespassing on U.S. soil and the military should be allowed to treat them as trespassers. It wouldn't take long for them to quit coming.

Make the I-9 form mandatory and cross reference the IRS, Labor, and a few other department computers. Computer spits out a possible illegal, company gets a certain number of days to reconcile it with a local office. Prosecute the companies and the executives who keep hiring illegals.

2. Let's recover the economy by rebuilding our road and rail infrastructure and building a better electrical infrastructure that will support solar and wind during the day and traditional energy production at night. Plenty of out-of-work people to put together on the jobsites like the workforces that built our railroads and recovered during the Depression.

3. To fix healthcare, I would do a couple of things, a couple of which will be screamed about as an encroachment on rights.

a) All insurance coverage will no longer involve copays. It will be 80/20 coverage, forcing the healthcare suppply companies to drop prices because the price will be out there for the public to see.

b) Corporations may not compensate anyone more than 12-15 times what the lowest paid person in the company makes. That includes bonuses, stock options and deferred payments. I don't mind the guys in the boardrooms making more but the differential is totally out of hand. The rank and file wworkers are geting less and less while the CEOs are raping everybody.

c) Let's create a VA type program for the uninsured (or uninsurable), complete with non-profit hospitals. Take those people out of the private sector. If it's not very efficient, it still will provide some health benefits to those who need it. For those who are feeding needlessly at the public trough, no need to "spiff up" treatment speed or the like. They might work harder to get private sector jobs if the coverage is there but not up to private insurance speed or standards. There has to be a downside to the consumer for having the gov't pick up the tab.
Modified by srellim234 at 4:45 PM 8/11/2009

[EazyBreazy]

Long post, please read all of it before responding, Window is too small to truly organize it.

As to your first post, You are not the target of my rant, You've been dealt a s***ty hand and continued to struggle through. It doesn't seem to me that when you got your bad hand you just fell on your a** and stayed there. While I am sympathetic to you're situation, It is not the governments job to tell me whom and how to help. That does not mean that I won't help, but instead of making me pay, ask me. Or for that matter let me pick how my money is used.

BTW when I was in the Military I was providing a service to the nation, pledged my life to the defense of the nation and givin my job specialty, I saved the government and you far more than I have ever and will be compensated for. I worked on Multi Million dollar aircraft instrumentation and circuitry repairing it so that it could be re-stocked instead of destroyed and re-procured from the manufacturer. If you could show me where me paying for healthcare of people whom don't work hard will benefit me then maybe I'll reconsider.

My personal feeling is that people should have to be willing to work for the benefits.

1. If you want to collect your unemployment, you should have to go sit on a bench for 8 hours a day for 3 days a week down at the unemployment office to collect. If you're sitting on the bench and someone comes in and offers you something similar to what the illegals are getting as day laborers on street corners now, you have to take it if you want to get paid. Watch how fast those people start busting their butts looking for work in order to avoid the bench."

I agree with the premis, but I believe it should be more than 3 days and that it should extend to those on welfare too. If you collect it you should be doing something productive for a minimum of 40 hours a week. There is plenty of opportunity for those people to do good things with their time while you're living off of my dime.

Quote »Let the military patrol the southern border. Anyone headed south, let them go. Anyone headed north, you are trespassing on U.S. soil and the military should be allowed to treat them as trespassers. It wouldn't take long for them to quit coming.

Make the I-9 form mandatory and cross reference the IRS, Labor, and a few other department computers. Computer spits out a possible illegal, company gets a certain number of days to reconcile it with a local office. Prosecute the companies and the executives who keep hiring illegals.[/quote]I agree, and in addition, stop extending my money to people whom aren't here legally. I would hazard a guess that if I illegally entered Mexico and got sick, the emergency room would have very little if any sympathy for my plight. Frankly though, IDGAF stop using my money on illegals

Quote »2. Let's recover the economy by rebuilding our road and rail infrastructure and building a better electrical infrastructure that will support solar and wind during the day and traditional energy production at night. Plenty of out-of-work people to put together on the jobsites like the workforces that built our railroads and recovered during the Depression. [/quote]/cosigned

Quote »3. To fix healthcare, I would do a couple of things, a couple of which will be screamed about as an encroachment on rights.

a) All insurance coverage will no longer involve copays. It will be 80/20 coverage, forcing the healthcare suppply companies to drop prices because the price will be out there for the public to see.

b) Corporations may not compensate anyone more than 12-15 times what the lowest paid person in the company makes. That includes bonuses, stock options and deferred payments. I don't mind the guys in the boardrooms making more but the differential is totally out of hand. The rank and file wworkers are geting less and less while the CEOs are raping everybody.

c) Let's create a VA type program for the uninsured (or uninsurable), complete with non-profit hospitals. Take those people out of the private sector. If it's not very efficient, it still will provide some health benefits to those who need it. For those who are feeding needlessly at the public trough, no need to "spiff up" treatment speed or the like. They might work harder to get private sector jobs if the coverage is there but not up to private insurance speed or standards. There has to be a downside to the consumer for having the gov't pick up the tab.[/quote]Lets not confuse VA healthcare, It is there for the treatment of persons whom have become disabled in some fashion or another. I myself am 30% disabled and only go to the VA for things that are covered under my reasons for disablility. There is also a pay scale where as if you make over a certain amount of money, you will have to copay for services rendered at the VA. Additionally anyone whom is able bodied and willing can have access to these same benefits if they join the Military before the cut off date.

How about instead of the government saying I have to help, I'm allowed to pick whom I help. A sponsorship program so to speak. Instead of my money getting lost in the burocracy and filtered into god knows what program instead of its intended destination, I'd rather give directly to the person whom needs it. Additionally I'd like to be able to see that the person getting the money is using it in a manner comensurate with the intentions of the donation IE if I donate money to you for healthcare expenses, I do not want to see you with a new 52" tv. If my money is being abused by the current recipient, I could change that myself.

Basically, I do not want to help people whom don't want to help themself. I can understand giving someone a hand so they can get back on their feet, but I'm not for giving them a handout.

[smockers83]

I DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE.

...

If persons are under the age of 30 with families that need health care and are having trouble finding a job in their chosen profession they can do what I did earlier in life. Go join the military not only will you get a pay check but they will give you health care too. It's win win and win. You get money, health care and I get to keep my money.

As with most things, there is a catch.

What's the catch? If all the people who can't afford healthcare and/or can't find a job join the military, you're going to be paying for those people anyway. So now here is where I ask, what's the difference?

Actually, the difference is that having all of them join the military would be more expensive because on top of paying for the healthcare, you're paying their paycheck as well. Then we have to ask DoD, where are we going to quarter these troops? They'll have to build barracks, reopen bases, and have an excess supply of troops, introducing more enormous costs.

When they come out of the military, chances are they won't be able to afford healthcare again. It's not people being shafted, it's just that it's too expensive, they're priced out of the market. That's the barrier to the market and that's the only barrier, when reduced, will solve the problem.

[EazyBreazy]

yes the military isn't a catch all, but if you are of able body, mind and age, there's no reason you couldn't join.

I would much prefer to pay more for the service of people in the military than to pay for the health insurance. I'm not the root source of the insurance issue, because as you said it starts with the prices. I'm unable to change that. It is possible although to reform the current system in a manner as such that prices are more fair for everyone. But that reform better not reach into my pockets either for someone else. I would gladly help people as I said in my previous post, but in a manner that isn't government mandated and one where people whom abuse the help are dealt with accordingly

[srellim234]

Absolutely there's a catch, or at least regulations that would need to be updated. The military won't take you if you've had a knee surgery, even if you have recovered totally from it. The military won't take people who admit they're gay. There are plenty of other reasons they won't take people, too.

Also, how do you propose matching up people to donors and pay for that infrastructure? The idea sounds good but it fails when it comes to practical implementation.

[themadscientist]

They don't want guys with bad bodies. That would take all the fun out of wearing yours out. Military service should be the answer to a calling that is its own reward, not a last resort to find a "job."

[EazyBreazy]

Also, how do you propose matching up people to donors and pay for that infrastructure? The idea sounds good but it fails when it comes to practical implementation.

There in lies the key. What I do know is that the government has managed to screw up Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and VA health care. I'm not comfortable with an entity so capable of screwing stuff up running a program like I proposed or for that matter running every ones health care. Honestly I cannot fathom how people thinking the gov't will fix this by running it when they've proven they're only highly capable of running it into the ground.

Mad while i agree it shouldn't be a last resort, It is a viable option for those whom are able.

[BusyBadger]

Military service should be the answer to a calling that is its own reward, not a last resort to find a "job."

Beer's on me for that one.

[srellim234]

You're right. Therein lies the key. How WOULD you fairly implement such a plan and pay for it using only private dollars? And make sure you picked up everyone trying to find a job and work for a living, including those we've banished by law to live under a bridge in Miami?

Those people paid their "debt to society" with their prison terms/penalties enforced by the justice system. If the voters wished to enforce lifetime sentences upon them, fine, but then the prison system should be utilized and lock them up for life. And there go your tax dollars again.

As for your disability from the military, be thankful that it was a government run program and not a United Healthcare private plan that said you had reached your limit of coverage (or not covered at all) so now you're on your own with your expensive healthcare treatment and bills for the rest of your life, with no other company willing to cover you because it's a "preexisting condition."

There are just way too many variables for a "one size fits all" solution, including the things being proposed. It's going to take rational discussions, planning and problem solving, allowing for private sector profits but removing the blatant greed and gross lack of ethics by the execs in boardrooms across the nation to fix our broken system.

[AZhitman]

...and it doesn't need to be rushed.

I'm still waiting for BO to give us some details. Thus far, nothing.

Seems his constituency wants us to rush into something that we've not been fully informed on. And that's NEVER good. Iraq invasion, anyone?

[srellim234]

It doesn't need to be rushed but the situation is urgent. We need cooler heads to prevail and get this done in a reasonable manner instead of the stonewalling complete with bribery (healthcare companies buying off legislators) that's taking place now. Plus, if the opposition has reasonable alternatives to discuss other than the current broken system, then discuss it! Don't just scream pointlessly and oppose everything just because your guy isn't in the White House.

Call out the "Blue Dog" Democrats, too, who have been bought off by the industry. Most of what I'm seeing in the opposition are legislators who have accepted hundreds of thousands, in some cases millions of dollars, to oppose and stonewall everything. As far as I'm concerned, those who have accepted that kind of money now have a conflict of interest in the issue and should abstain from voting on it.

I'm not thrilled with Obama's plan, but I'd like to see some reasonable alternatives discussed, and then have them DO SOMETHING!

[AZhitman]

BO needs to outline the plan. Give details. Answer the tough questions.

And he needs to tell his staffers to STFU.

Just because we're not ready to blindly adopt an incomplete and ill-conceived "plan" doesn't mean we're "unAmerican" or "extremist", NOR does it even mean we want to see the Prez fail.

It just means we demand MORE info and less rushing.

We let them rush bailouts. Let's be smarter here.

By the way, Pelosi should be your #1 target. She's worse for the Dems than a sex scandal. Her attitude towards those who question this "plan" is preposterous.

The fact remains, all government intervention in healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid/VA) has been a colossal failure. Why should we blindly accept that this will be any different?

[audtatious]

Palosi must be bipolar. First she attacked the people for "all the Nazi" stuff, then she called anyone who questions them "un-American". Today she is preaching how great it is for her to listen to all constituents opinions and such as she is their Representative.....

Put the bish on some meds....

[AZhitman]

Put the bish on some meds....

[srellim234]

I wish Pelosi weren't there, but the fact of the matter is, she IS there.

So it's up to the people to try rational discussions at these town hall meetings, demand rational discussions with their congresspeople, demand the Dems publish the plans in detail of what's coming out of these committees before they are voted on.

[audtatious]

You can't have rational discussion with those who either dismiss you, won't take your calls or think you do not represent the majority to make them fear for the next election.

It seemed OK to the Dems when others interrupted Bush and other Republicans over the last 8 years but they are now against these same style tactics. IMO, the more it happens the more the point will be driven home that they CAN be replaced. The majority who are in charge is not going to voluntarily be "transparent" at this point and their actions prove it.

[srellim234]

You can't have rational discussion with those who either dismiss you, won't take your calls or think you do not represent the majority to make them fear for the next election.

It seemed OK to the Dems when others interrupted Bush and other Republicans over the last 8 years but they are now against these same style tactics. IMO, the more it happens the more the point will be driven home that they CAN be replaced. The majority who are in charge is not going to voluntarily be "transparent" at this point and their actions prove it.

You also can't have rational discussions if the dissenters come in hysterically and without respect or an intelligent presentation.

Welcome to what dissenters, Republican and Democrat, had to deal with under the Bush/Cheney administration. There's a reason why they lost big in November. And yes, the Democrats will run get those same results if they continue on the path they are on. The swing votes that decide elections for President are in the middle and they are being ignored. First one that pays serious attention to them and quits catering to the extreme right or left is going to win the next one.

[audtatious]

They were not attempting to have any discussion at all and had planned on having the bill signed prior to their vacation so the dissenters seemed to have stopped things for now. I do agree there should be bi-partisan discussion but that's not being allowed either. Assuming all the dissenters are extreme right and simply being paid to protest is a mistake.

[nissangirl74]

The fact remains, all government intervention in healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid/VA) has been a colossal failure. Why should we blindly accept that this will be any different?

We shouldn't. However, in order for any new plan to work, we must first identify the root cause of the problem. Yes, the healthcare system is broken. But why? When a system fails, it is because one of the components stops functioning correctly. Simplistically speaking, the healthcare system has two components. The supplier (the government) and the consumer (the patients). Who failed? I'm sure most people would say that it is ALL the government's fault, but I beg to differ with that statement. Many people have abused their access to free healthcare. We've all seen the people who run to the doctor every time they get a sniffle or every time their kids scrape their knees. These people are costing the system so much money, the providers are hard-pressed to maintain.

I do not think that we should do away with free healthcare, because there are those who really do need it and are duly entitled. However, it does need to be better managed.

The first thing i would do is limit the amount of general visits to the doctor before a fee has to be paid. Then I would tell these girls living in the projects, having a baby every four years so they can get government funded EVERYTHING, that the free ride is over. I also believe there should be a mandate for military personnel. Unless you get injured while on active duty, you don't get lifetime healthcare unless you sign up for 20 years. That one may get me crucified but I don't care. anything you get for free should be earned.

[hannibal]

^ I think you missed the issue here. Yes, govt and citizens are involved, but theres a third party which you didnt mention... health care corporations.

Heath care as a business is the reason these costs have skyrocketed. We've all seen the statistics saying health care makes up 20% (??) of the country's GDP. Thats the central issue IMO. If we could keep costs from soaring more people and businesses could afford to have health insurance. IMO, anything that doesnt target the rising cost of seeing a doctor or receiving treatment is useless. If insurance cost $5 a month for a worker's entire family and the worker chose not to provide for his family, then I have no complaint. But if the cost of coverage is too high for a low income, working man to pay, then we have a fundamental problem.

I honestly dont think going to the doctor for a scraped knee is destroying the system. Its a doctor saying I have to charge you $500 for some bactine and a bandaid. Many doctors are no longer self employed. Many work for health care companies who are concerned with profits, not sufficient, cost effective treatment. (This point just occured to me. I bet many more dr's who work for medical companies than are self employed compared to 50 yrs ago.)

Has the expense of giving birth risen, or are these companies simply charging more for the "privilege"? A lot of people say health care is a privilege, not a right. To go to the extreme, is child birth in a medical institution a privilege? Or should we let those that can afford the high cost receive medical attention for mother and child, and let those that cant give birth in the cheapest alternative (home)? If conception is a unalienable right, and birth and life are as well, shouldnt maintaining that life be a right as well?

If we as a country were more concerned about people than profits, this wouldnt be an issue. Capitalism falls short when it comes to health care. Free enterprise says reduce costs, maintain revenue, and therefore increase profit. This obviously does NOT work when the business in question involves the health of our people. I'm all for govt price controls. More important than keeping the price of corn, wheat, and soy high. Public projects like roads and infrastructure often do not work as private enterprises. Isnt it very possible that health care may not work under those conditions as well?

Most would agree that selling organs to the highest bidder is a bad idea. Thats why we have waiting lists and such. This is sometimes violated by those who can outbid others. This does not belong in our country. Regardless, this is the discussion that needs to take place. Way to go NICO...

[nissangirl74]

^ I think you missed the issue here. Yes, govt and citizens are involved, but theres a third party which you didnt mention... health care corporations.

I didn't miss the issue. I was addressing the quoted government agencies that offer FREE healthcare. The taxpayers have to pay for it, which was the OP's original point, which I agree with completely. I don't mind helping anyone who truly needs it but I'd much rather try to help someone who is putting forth a concerted effort to help themselves.