Starting trouble

[WhiTTe Z]

All right so I'm upset that my 93 5 speed TT which i've had for a little over a month hasn't been starting well. It started every time on the first try for the first couple weeks I had it but now it usually takes a lot of tries.


-It fires every time it cranks
-Just doesnt crank every time.. When I turn the key it just clicks (I think starter clicking) and sometimes takes more than 30 key turns before it cranks, once in a while it cranks on the first try.
-Always cranks EVENTUALLY but I don't want to be pushing my luck and have to get it towed the first time it decides not to.

-Dont think it's battery or alternator because the lights stay bright when I turn the key and the SAFC reads 14.3V when the car is running and like 12.4V when it's in Accessory.


So I need your advice, i dont want to start replacing sh it unnecessarily.

I'm thinking it's either...
-Starter motor
-Starter key switch
-Clutch Switch
-Ignition switch
-Spark Plugs
-Something to do with FPR or fuel lines
-Something to do with alarm which was going off randomly for the first few weeks but stopped

How do I test these things?



please help

[robomatic12]

I'd suggest looking over the ground points in the engine bay, making sure they are clean and corrosion free. Also make sure the battery clamps are corrosion free and making good contact (tight with the batt post). It's probably the starter relay in the fenderwell area that you hear clicking.

If you hear the click each time it doesn't crank then you can eliminate the spark plugs, fpr, alarm (most likely unless it interupts between the starter relay and starter).

If you hear the click that means the car is trying to provide power to the starter via the starter relay but it is not getting enough to make it work or the starter just doesn't wanna work (dead, frozen or stuck). So I'd say the ignition switch and clutch switch are doing their job.

[evildky]

the clicking that you are hearing, is it the relay click coming form the drivers side fender? or the starter soleniod which is on the starter ont he passanger side of the car?

if it's a starter soleniod click it's either a bad starter or a voltage issue (bad battery or bad cables ro contacts at oen end or the other

if the click is the main relay it could still be the starter or voltage issue but might also be the clutch switch or relay

[dantesdoom]

heard of similar problems with the starter teeth breaking... my guess would be something in the starter motor is froze. Autozone will test a starter for you (at least in SC) if you want to pull it off....a little work...but it wont cost anything.

[WhiTTe Z]

definitely coming from the drivers side fender area so I guess it's the relay clicking. Battery terminals seem to be okay. Relay doesn't click when the clutch isnt in so I think the clutch switch is working.

[robomatic12]

Pull the starter off and get it tested

[WhiTTe Z]

all right

[evildky]

check to see if you are getting voltage at the trigger wire for the starter, if you get trigger voltage but no starter engagement you have a bad starter

[WhiTTe Z]

Sorry but Im new at this and dont have much experience with a multimeter. Is this the trigger wire that im supposed to test and what position should the key be in while testing? Also what setting should the multimeter be on?





IS this the trigger wire? and yea there's oil everywhere, pretty sure it's coming from the main seal.



once again my bad for being such a n00b

[robomatic12]

Looks like it to me, the big wire covered by the rubber is the battery 12+ connection and the wire you are talking about should be the trigger wire to activate the starter solenoid.

[WhiTTe Z]

Okay now should there be voltage to the starter all the time or only when someone is turning the key with the clutch in (when the relay is clicking)?

[evildky]

only when the key is turned, you'll want to disconnect taht wire from the starter at the time of testing to be sure you don't run over yourself

[WhiTTe Z]

Well I tested the starter with multimeter while friend turned key and got nothing. You can hear the relay click every time.

Just to make sure I was doing this correctly.. I put the Red positive terminal of the multimeter on the Nut part of the Solenoid under the rubber thing and then grounded the black negative multimeter terminal.

^Is this where you're supposed to test from?


Eventually the car started after 50 or so key turns, I then went for a drive and everything seemed fine. Then I got into my garage, shut off the car , waited 5 seconds and it cranked first try, did it 2 more times and it cranked first try. Then I shut it off, took the key out, put the key back in and it wouldnt crank even after more than 50 tries

[evildky]

no, the wire next to your aoow, the skinny wire, thats the signal wire, thats the one you need to test and that the one you need to unplug so the car won't actually start when you turn the key

there are only 2 wires going to the starter, the battery cable and the signal wire, the big one is the battery cable, the skinny one is the signal wire, the other large wire taht goes fomr the soleniod to the body fo the starter only gets power whent he soleniod clicks and we need to first determine if the solenoid si getting the trigger signal

[WhiTTe Z]

Thanks evil, you're the man.

All right so I got zero voltage at the signal wire, relay still clicks every time... what's next? checking the relay switch?

[evildky]

look at the fsm starting diagram and figure otu which wire out of the main relay leads to the starter and check for voltage there, I suspect the main relay is bad

[WhiTTe Z]

is the main relay the blue one behind the drivers wheel well?

[CTS13]

Im having this problem too. i get power all the way to the starter. I even tried bench testing with ground terminals on battery and starter body and power on both power terminals and nothing happens. I even wacked it with a hammer. Bad starter right?

[robomatic12]

If you apply direct power to the starter and nothing happens, its dead.