Starting Problem After Timing Guide Replacement

[SirSilvia]

'89 Nissan 240sx SOHC KAI originally broke the factory chain guide at drift practice. I searched around and read this thread searched here thinking this might be my problem?ANYWAY, here's the point I'm up to now.

Carl (52) and his dad Clyde (85) is helping me with this, and we got the whole car put back together. It won't start however, it has spark and fuel pressure and was running fine before the downtime, and has good compression. Replaced the right side timing chain guide and went ahead and put the rest of the kit in too (upper/lower sprockets, chain, tensioner) got it all put back together and charged the battery.

Today it won't start and Clyde thinks we need to pull the valve cover off and check in there. I doubt it and I think he's full of crap, so here's my understanding.

-When I started the work, we got cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke. -Marked everything as we took it off the car. -After replacing all the parts and fighting with the hard to reach oil suction tube. -All finished up and not a single bolt leftover, everything.-Cranked to a dead battery and charged over night. :Today: -Turning it over Clyde didn't believe I had fuel like I said it did, you could smell gas after turning it over a few times. There was nothing wrong with it before we started. -He still didn't trust my word on that, so popped the fuel line and hit the key, and sprayed gas all over. -Let that air out and dry and checked the spark next, its good.-Tried hooking up the timing light but you can't see the mark on the crank pulley.-Tried moving the distributor some and its still not starting.

This is where he said we might have to pull the valve cover. Now my question is what the f*** for? I can guarantee the timing marks on the sprockets are matched up and all those parts fastened properly. ANNNND that there is no other adjustment in there, right? Like on some belt driven engines you can adjust the top sprocket(s) I didn't think it did but asked Shally's friend Brian that is sure that it does not adjust.

Sooooooo, that means there's NO need to open the valve cover or anything right? Stop me if I'm being an idiot, but logic tells me that the upper and lower parts have absolutely NO adjustments that can be messed up. The only thing that could have happened in there was if I put the chain on and missed a tooth. It's like I said though, I made double and triple sure everything was still lined up.

When tightening the crank pulley and the cam gear they did move slightly. So what I'm guessing is the oil pump/distributor shaft is off and I need to turn the distributor further than it regularly goes. meaning I'd have to pull the oil pump and move the shaft some. no biggy.

I need to get this thing running so what do you guys/gals think?

[SirSilvia]

vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNPN82rwsD8

[sloweighty]

check our oil pump, injector grounds, fuses, dizzy cap and rotor, check spark plug wires for right firing orders....thats all i can think of rightnow

[OutToWinPAHC]

If you dont find them help here post for help in the KA24 forum.

[SirSilvia]

i watch the KA forums and they aren't as active at times. they're telling me its out of time by two links. and i question they're knowledge but then again, they've been working on cars longer than i've been alive. we never took the wires off the cap and marked the cap before takin it off and marked the wires 1-4. also the wires are or different lengths. the oil pump and the o-pump/dist shaft might be off a tooth or two. but they're saying its the chain that's off.

[sloweighty]

i watch the KA forums and they aren't as active at times. they're telling me its out of time by two links. and i question they're knowledge but then again, they've been working on cars longer than i've been alive. we never took the wires off the cap and marked the cap before takin it off and marked the wires 1-4. also the wires are or different lengths. the oil pump and the o-pump/dist shaft might be off a tooth or two. but they're saying its the chain that's off.

hold on.....there are people who works on cars but there are people that knows HOW to work on a car..............i know a lot of people that works on cars but they only know how to work on certain kinds of car.........some knows alot about american cars but if you but a import in from of them then they wouldn't know where to start........if you said they have been working on cars longer than you have then why you have these problems and have you ever seen there work before..........

[2jztwoforty]

it deff sounds like its mechanicly out of time somewhere.. either the distributor or the timing chain, make sure you reinstalled the distributer correctly. you can quickly verify its in the ballpark by turning the motor manually to compression stroke on cylinder 1 and then pulling the cap off the distributor and the rotor should be pointing towards the tower that goes to cylinder 1..

[SirSilvia]

hold on.....there are people who works on cars but there are people that knows HOW to work on a car..............i know a lot of people that works on cars but they only know how to work on certain kinds of car.........some knows alot about american cars but if you but a import in from of them then they wouldn't know where to start........if you said they have been working on cars longer than you have then why you have these problems and have you ever seen there work before..........

Oh yeah, this isn't the first time they've worked on my car. Granted they mostly work on domestics but they're no stranger to imports. I trust them completely, there isn't anyone else I know that I trust to do the work. They've proven themselves in the past. So I have no worries.

[SirSilvia]

it deff sounds like its mechanicly out of time somewhere.. either the distributor or the timing chain, make sure you reinstalled the distributer correctly. you can quickly verify its in the ballpark by turning the motor manually to compression stroke on cylinder 1 and then pulling the cap off the distributor and the rotor should be pointing towards the tower that goes to cylinder 1..

yes it was out of time, b/c they did that on Friday and it did line up as it should, and still acted like that. So no matter how sure I was that I did the work right the first time. It was still off by one tooth on the chain, which I have no clue how that happened. Not only that, but I forgot to prime the oil pump. That would have been costly. Friday they started at 12pm and finished it at 3am. They tore it all back down and re-did it. they at least didn't have to pull the oil pan or drop the cross member this time since the oil pan was clean. I was so tweaked when i did all the work and it didn't start, I admitted defeat and let them have at it. I started looking for SR's

[SirSilvia]

And they said they heard a little valve tapping, or w/e it is yesterday, but it got louder now. here's a vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1k-XshAiLA

Idles fineDecent acceleration responseDid loose some power on the high endDoesn't stutter and sputter or shake

Carl said we could adjust the lifter/valve and get it to stop. was not aware that you could do that on the KA24E but they seem to know their stuff better than I do. Did learn a lot though

[zerepdivad]

That does not sound good at all.... that sounds like my sohc in my daily driver sounded when i ran it low on oil. Went away on my car once i added oil.. but it wasn't that bad. I don't think you can adjust ka lifters if i recall they're hydraulic?

[sloweighty]

what weight oil are you running.......cause when i did my timing replacement i asked my dad to help pick up some oil for me since he was on his way to the parts store and when he got back it was 5w40.........and i was like...........whats this...........and he told me that the guy working there said this is what it needs........and i didn't think to much of it........i always run 10w40 and i get a little tap noise but when i ran the 5w40 i got the same noise as you did so maybe its your oil.....

the reason why it makes all that noise with 5w40 is because it is not thick enough so it is falling down to the oil pan too fast and it is not staying up in the lifters to help quite the noise down.......hope this helps

[SirSilvia]

That does not sound good at all.... that sounds like my sohc in my daily driver sounded when i ran it low on oil. Went away on my car once i added oil.. but it wasn't that bad. I don't think you can adjust ka lifters if i recall they're hydraulic?

That is true, I saw no adjustments, or anything that remotely looked like adjustments. Got a VW buddy that says it should be hydraulic.

[SirSilvia]

what weight oil are you running.......cause when i did my timing replacement i asked my dad to help pick up some oil for me since he was on his way to the parts store and when he got back it was 5w40.........and i was like...........whats this...........and he told me that the guy working there said this is what it needs........and i didn't think to much of it........i always run 10w40 and i get a little tap noise but when i ran the 5w40 i got the same noise as you did so maybe its your oil.....

the reason why it makes all that noise with 5w40 is because it is not thick enough so it is falling down to the oil pan too fast and it is not staying up in the lifters to help quite the noise down.......hope this helps

I used 10w30 and figured it was too light of viscosity. Posted the same problem elsewhere and suggested I run thicker oil and/or maybe some lucas oil treatment. So I went out and got some Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer. I put about half of it in to see if it made a difference and it did lessen it, I'm going to drain about a quart and put more lucas in.

It say 1 quart per 4 quarts oil. and for older engines, to use up to 60% lucas to oil.

I did also delete the EGR BS and I know it use to make a clicking noise when it had an air leak. but all the piping is sealed off and It's definitely more than just a little click since it sounded that bad. :/ we'll see later.