STARTER KIILED BATTERY AND FUSES

[Larz]

Long story short: Went out to the garage yesterday and when I switched the engine ON in my M35, nothing but dimmed dash lights and a weird whining from under the hood. Battery is only about a year old and I'm in South Florida so dead battery seemed possible, but very unlikely.
Tried a jump-start with my other cars, but it still didn't start or even appear to be getting power from other batteries.
Had road service come by and they, too could not start the car. Called my service guy at Infiniti. He sent a tow truck to fetch the car and also a G37 loaner. After about 2 hours, he reported the following:
Battery had ZERO cranking amps and even after replacing the battery car would still not start.
Starter appears to have failed and kept draining the battery until it was 100% titz-up.
Starter also caused one or more of the fuses attached to the battery (+) cable to blow.
They closed at 3pm, so they will contiue running tests on Monday, but he suspects at least a new starter, new battery, and new fuses needed so far. He says he doubts it affected the wiring harness but they won't know until they resume work on Monday.
QUESTION:
Has anyone heard of the starter doing this kind of damage? There was NO engine light, no charging light, no warning of any kind on the dash and I used the car just the day before with no issues at all.

[Larz]

Wow lots of views but no answers, LOL. I reckon I'm the first have this happen. My first actual repair at 85k miles and it's a whopper!

[svard75]

Sounds like the starters dead. What did Infiniti say? They can test the starter.

[Larz]

They said at the very least it needs a new battery and new starter, also new fuses on the (+) battery cable. They are concerned the starter might have also damaged the main harness but they ran out of time Sat and will continue testing Monday to make sure everything that was damaged is replaced or repaired.
I can see the starter going titz-up, but had no idea it could drain my battery to zero amps just sitting in my garage and I'm also suprised it blew the fuse. The dealer left the new battery un-hooked as they feared it could also drain that one until it's replaced.

[Rogue One]

Sounds like the starters dead. What did Infiniti say? They can test the starter.

Ok, it's very likely both the starter and battery were both on their way out, kinda like a murder-suicide pact. It may be just a quirk that you lost fuses too.

[Larz]

I agree. The battery was only about 11-12 months old so I will probably get a pro-rate bill for it and I believe my warranty covers the starter so that will likely be a co-pay. Unfortunately all my warranty info is sat neatly placed in a folder in the glove box of the car so my Infiniti rep is going to pull it out and contact the warranty peeps on Monday.

Side note:
This Infiniti guy is really great. It's almost (but not quite) worth paying dealer prices for the service he gives me. He sent a flat bed tower to fetch my car, AND sent a tech to my house with a G37 loaner who rode back to the dealer with the tow guy. This was started 12:30 on a Saturday when they close at 3pm ! I called him, told him what was wrong and he went into gear and took it all on. I just sat on my bum and he arranged the tow, the loaner, and even apologised for not being alble to complete everything by 3pm. On Monday he will start the warranty process using my info in the car and he'll call me to update me throughout the day. I won't have to deal with that either! I know when I get there, he will have all the paperwork ready for my signature, all the info I need, and hand me a completed service bill as they bring the car out - washed and vaccuumed. All this for a 2007 with 85k miles that has only had a few oil changes done there and wasn't even purchased from their shop. Some of my mates have bought Infiniti's at other dealerships (there are 4 near me) and I send them all to Brian at Lauderdale Infiniti for servicing.

[Rogue One]

OMG. Sounds like you found a silver lining in your dark cloud! Management might not let you give him a brewski, but I'd find some way to tip him.

[svard75]

Sorry I know my quick reply wasn't very helpful. A starter contains a solenoid which is like a relay. It's possible that the solenoid is defective and is making constant contact. Before this happened did you notice the starter trying to turn while you were driving (a grinding sound)?the whirring sound could have been an electrical short occurring. I know things corrode from the top down in Florida so perhaps you experienced a direct battery short via the solenoid. That would explain the fuses, relays, and battery all going at the same time. It's also possible (although unlikely) a combination of the solenoid getting stuck engaged while the starter circuit relay remained on and the starting motors gear stripped (hence the whirring sound).
It's nice to get that kind of service that's for sure.

[Larz]

Sorry I know my quick reply wasn't very helpful. A starter contains a solenoid which is like a relay. It's possible that the solenoid is defective and is making constant contact. Before this happened did you notice the starter trying to turn while you were driving (a grinding sound)?the whirring sound could have been an electrical short occurring. I know things corrode from the top down in Florida so perhaps you experienced a direct battery short via the solenoid. That would explain the fuses, relays, and battery all going at the same time. It's also possible (although unlikely) a combination of the solenoid getting stuck engaged while the starter circuit relay remained on and the starting motors gear stripped (hence the whirring sound).
It's nice to get that kind of service that's for sure.

Thanks mate. I think your first senario makes perfect sense and also explains why the car could not be jump started in the morning. The night before, we were out for the evening and our last stop was at a place where the car was parked by a valet, so I wuldn't have noticed any noises or grinding at that final start-up because the valet did that one. If the solenoid did continue to make contact, that would explain how it drained a perfectly good battery overnight while it sat in my garage. I know that the (-) terminal and cable on my battery got rather warm durring the attempted jump start (maybe from constant output/draw from the jammed starter). I'll let you know how this turns out, but I reckon your suspcion is going to be proven correct.

[Larz]

Final outcome:

Turns out Msvara was spot on. It was the starter that shorted and stayed in contact with the engine after being turned off, draining power until the battery went dead, and blowing inline fuses on the (+) battery cable along the way. He said there probably was a scraping noise just briefly at that final good start-up, but probably no other noises after the engine was under power. The Black Beast needs a battery, cables and fuses and a new starter and some sort of witing associated with the starter.

Here is why I praise this guy so much. When he called, he already had the battery and cable installed. AND ... he already ordered the starter from the Orlando facility and arranged overnight delivery to install tomorrow morning. He also contacted the warranty peeps at CarMax (where I bought the car), and already had the claim processed, paid, and subtracted from my bill. He will also have them do an inspection after the repairs are done so I know where I stand regarding tires, brakes, and maintenance items.

My cost?
1) New battery, new cables and inline fuses
2) New starter and wiring (not sure what wires)
3) Labor to remove, install, and test the battery and starter
4) Complete inspection for any other items that may soon need service
5) G37 loaner from Saturday to Wednesday (free)

was ............. $264 (paid over the phone)

They will return the 'Black Beast' tomorrow and pick up the G37 loaner.

[TXT]

That's incredible service and a cost I would have paid with a smile on my face. That sounded like it could of easily been over $500 since it's all through the dealer. A good battery is about 90 bucks. Not sure how much a starter would cost but the price includes the starter and the labor. You won.

You also forgot on your list:
6) Tow truck

[svard75]

Idk man it sounds fishy! Did they just replace the solenoid or maybe just cleaned the contacts and replaced the fuses and wiring? Unless they wanted to sell you a new car. Rule of thumb always ask for the old part to be placed into the trunk of your car. And if they say it needs to be sent for a core exchange then simply have them show you the new part on the car.

[Larz]

Idk man it sounds fishy! Did they just replace the solenoid or maybe just cleaned the contacts and replaced the fuses and wiring? Unless they wanted to sell you a new car. Rule of thumb always ask for the old part to be placed into the trunk of your car. And if they say it needs to be sent for a core exchange then simply have them show you the new part on the car.

Always good advise to check anything they say the worked on, regadrless of where the repairs are done. I usually ask to see the old part(s) that were removed and usually have a look at the new parts after installed - just to make sure that the repair was done exactly as they say it was. They couldn't do any partial repair of the starter so they had to replace the whole thing.
My extended warranty covered the cost for a new OEM starter / wiring + the labor to remove / install. I reckon that alone saved me about $500. The warranty would not pay for the new battery, but they did cover the new (+) battery cable 100% because the starter ruined it. I reckon my extended warranty just saved me at least 500-600 dollars (they will bring the actual itemized bill with the car later today. Basically seems I paid a fee ($100) for the warranty repair and pro-rated cost for the new battery plus labor to install it and the cable.

[Larz]

The Black Beast was delivered yesterday as promised, along with the item bill. If anyone is wondering what these cost , I'm posting it here:

01 Car towed in - will not start / shorted starter? ..............$ 0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
02 Starter unit.................$ 302.08
03 Wiring ASSB................$ 48.45
04 Labor 1.5 hours...........$ 223.50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
05 Infiniti battery - 999M1- R Battery...............$ 134.99
06 Holder - Fuse-IB Link...............................$ 31.45
07 Labor......................................................INCL
08 Battery Disposal Fee...............................$ 1.50
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Labor.............$ 223.50
Parts..............$ 516.97
Expenses.........$ 1.50
Tax................$ 13.10

TOTAL................................$ 755.07
------------------------------------------------------
EXT Warr Cov........................$ 490.58
-------------------------------------------------------
Customer.............................$ 264.49

.

[TXT]

Very nice. How much longer do you have the extended warranty?

[Larz]

It was originally 72 months / 125k miles, whichever came first. I still have about 45 months / 50k miles remaining.
This is the first and only major repair that the car has needed since purchased in 2012.

[TXT]

Also bought my car in summer 2012. I should get an extended warranty. Do you recommend one? Seems that you now have actually used it with lots of success. I know there are threads out there that talk about this but if you could quickly tell me which one you have that would be great. I'll look into it.

I've got about 88,500 miles on the M45 so things will probably start to get expensive.

[Larz]

Also bought my car in summer 2012. I should get an extended warranty. Do you recommend one? Seems that you now have actually used it with lots of success. I know there are threads out there that talk about this but if you could quickly tell me which one you have that would be great. I'll look into it.

I've got about 88,500 miles on the M45 so things will probably start to get expensive.

I bought my car at CarMax and the warranty is called MaxCare. I searched evey Infiniti dealer near me and nobody had an M with bourbon leather, new or used. CarMax had one with about 60k miles. I had it inspected privately, and the guy couldn't find one thing that needed attention so I bought it. At that time I believe the warranty was just under $3,000 for 6yr / 125,000 miles from date of purchase.
I've used it once before but I cannot remeber what for LOL. This was the first major repair and I'm quite pleased with the warranty. My Infiniti guy reeviewed it and he liked the wide range of what it covers, too. I'm not sure if you can get a MaxCare warranty on a car that you didn't purchse from CarMax but I recommend them if you can. Otherwise most peeps in here seem to like the Infiniti EXT warranty.

[TXT]

I'll have to check into that. I hope that my current mileage doesn't qualify me to even get it at all.