Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

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jonathan1173
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Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:57 am

Starter making a loud clunk/grinding sound when starting. Mounting bolts had backed out! Starter tested good so I reinstalled with lock washers. Mounted flush but still grinding when attempting to start.
Any ideas are appreciated.


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AZhitman
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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby AZhitman » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:17 pm

Most likely, the flywheel or pinion gear has some broken or worn-out teeth, from the starter not being engaged fully.

Pull the starter, use a flashlight, and check the teeth (pull the coil wire and bump engine over w ignition to inspect it completely).

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am

Could possibly be the ring gear? You might try turning the idle pulley with a socket/ratchet to various spots on the flywheel and try starting the truck. If it still makes noice this would rule out the ring gear teeth. The starter MAY? Test out good but there is still the possibility of the solenoid switch or the drive being bad. I would loose the lock washers. It’s possible the starter has been replaced before and the wrong length bolts meaning to short were used or something is going on with the treads? Rather than using lock washers try ? Replacing the bolts with the next size longer. If ? The treads are bad this may help. If it’s to long then I would consider using a lock washer.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:27 pm

Photo and video of what it's doing after working on it today

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... OShr5CqGji


Replaced with Denso starter, not original bolts but sits flush and even.
New factory dizzy, timing Mark's line up, rockers fine, retorqued to 112 inch pounds.
Connected voltmeter to battery positive and starter positive.
Dropped between 1 and 1.5 volts when craking.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:16 am

The ring gear doesn’t look the the best. The starter drive doesn’t appear to be going in deep enough or the teeth are just that wore out? Why did you originally replace the starter? Was it due to the grinding or that it wasn’t turning over? Listening to the video it sounds like it’s binding? Glancing at the starter applications some are showing all some are showing automatic and manual transmission some have the extended housing some list 4wd -2wd. and some are list the Nissan Frontier. Kind of wondering if ALL means all work or there is a difference.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:13 am

Previous starter solenoid went out, replaced with oreilly part. That one had the solenoid bolts completely back out causing starter to fall apart. Someone didnt loctite them during rebuild process and spring,plunger and casing were laying under the truck. Guess that would explain why it wasnt starting.
Gear looks as if it's not going in far enough, but sounds as if its binding. Wondering if putting in shims would help or hurt.
Never had a problem with starter alignment in this or any other vehicle I've had. Just bolt it in and done.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:11 pm

Wouldn’t recommend shims X Did some checking,there is a difference between 2wd and 4wd starters. Possible? you are using the wrong starter? Could be boxed wrong or it’s possible you were given the wrong one?

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:39 pm

Can’t really tell if there is a difference between the rwd and the 4wd? Looked up a Remy starter 2wd the part number is 38557BR. The part number on the Remy starter 4wd is - 17288. So back to square on? Not sure if there is a difference?

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:55 am

Good observation.The part I have is a Denso part 2804133. I checked Rockauto to compare the 2 different ones. It seems the 4x4 starters are flat without a nose cone while the rwd ones have a cone. The starter I have has the cone and is a 1kw.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:11 am

I am finding starters with and without the cone that will work. Might try going by the Date of manufacture and the vin. Number to see if you are installing the correct starter? I am was try to check to see is the flywheels ?are interchangeable between the 4wd - 2wd?..???

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:11 am

Has the clutch been replaced recently and the flywheel removed? IF my memory is right seems to me there is a shim that is used. May have been left out?

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:33 pm

Some good insights. Prior starter had the nose cone as does this one. Clutch, flywheel and rear seal replaced last year. Old clutch didnt have a shim and clutch kit didnt come with one. Prior starter, identical to this one, worked fine after the clutch install. Rockauto shows a flywheel shim at 0.025 of an inch, pretty thin. I do have a starter shim ordered from oreilly that shows 15/16", hope when I go to install it all the holes ain't gone.
Now since the grinding subsided a tad when I installed washer between the starter and bellhousing, I believe the 15/16 will either fix the issue or will cause starter to spin freely being too far out.
I will also research the part by vin#.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:35 pm

No luck on the shim, experimented with washers between starter and bellhousing to adjust spacing.
No washers=clunking and binding.
1 washer=some grinding, less clunk and sometimes it will start.
2 and 3 washers= grinding.

Looking further, I searched Nissan part using my VIN and the part number that came back was 2330M-9Z400RW.
That starter appears to have no cone at the end of it, similar to Rockautos listings for the 1.4kw starters such as the Denso 2804100
The one I have is the Denso 2804133 1.0kw listed for manual, RWD. (Yes, I have the 5-speed)
Mounting Flange to Pinion End at Rest on both show 8mm.


Does the presence of a "nose-cone" make a difference in fitment?
Which of the two do you have on your trucks?
Should I purchase starter#3 with the open front as perhaps the one with the closed front somehow is incompatible with my vehicle?

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:39 pm

Not sure if the starter issue was resolved? The 2wd. Pickup uses 2 different starters. The automatic transmission and the manual transmission (4x4) use the same starter. - part number- 17685. The manual 5 speed (2wd) drive starter uses part number- 17684. Hope this helps.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:12 pm

I had ordered part #2804133 Denso and looks to have 8 teeth with the shroud.
17685 for the 4x4 and auto lists 8 teeth.
Part #17684 for the 2wd manual, the truck I have has 9 teeth.
All starters listed have the shroud.
Do the number of teeth on the starter make a difference?
Would you mind taking a look at the Denso part # I listed and advise what you think regarding the fitment on my 97 2wd manual?
If teeth/gears on the starter make a difference then that would explain them not lining up properly to turn the flywheel.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:44 am

The 17685 - fits Automatic and 4x4. This starter DOES NOT have the cone. The 17684 fits - rwd with the manual transmission this starter HAS THE CONE. The starters don’t interchange.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:14 am

The Denso 2804133 starter doesn’t have the cone.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:36 am

Unfortunately, the starter I have installed has the cone and is not engaging the flywheel properly causing grinding. Other than misfittment of starter, what else would cause these symptoms?
I'm considering ordering oem factory starter using vin#...

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:12 pm

Your starter should work. I looked at a 17684 starter with engine code B5244T this starter won’t work. Sorry about the misinformation. Did the starter just go out or has it been grinding over a long period of time? Did it have a recent clutch kit installed? If it’s been grinding over a long period of time it’s possible the ring gear is wore out. It’s possible but highly unusual that the starter would grind all the time. Normally it’s only in a certain location or position on the ring gear. How many teeth are on the drive?

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby jonathan1173 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:32 pm

I believe mine has 8 teeth on the drive gear. New clutch, flywheel, and rear main seal were installed last year. Previous starter worked just fine for 6 months after.
Only variables I see are the starter and the ring gear as those are the 2 points of contact. New flywheel has some scrapes from grinding but no broken teeth, with all pointed when I rotated engine by hand with starter removed. There wasnt any freeplay or visible cracks on it.
You see why this has me stumped, and am considering the $250 factory starter but dont want the conniptions that will come with installing starter #3 and have the same issue.

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Re: Starter Grinding 97 hardbody 4x2

Postby whomadewho » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:55 am

The flywheel works - RWD. - 4WD. All the way back. As long as the teeth are good on the flywheel not wore out it should work fine. Looking at the starter drive and solenoid switch not finding any difference in the application? If the teeth are good on the drive you might want to return the starter could be defective (if it’s still under warranty) Rather then spending all the$$$$ on purchasing A new starter you might want to consider just replacing the starter drive? The tool is rather inexpensive. When replacing the drive make sure the armature stays in place. Saves a lot of time and you don’t have to deal with the brushes. Thinking if you drive around and look over the edge of cliffs it’s possible you will find an abundance of Nissan pickup parts?


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