Starter and P1456 Horror Story LONG READ

[Innovazn]

Alright, My starter has been causing me problems for quite some time. Since the start of Winter, I could feel my starter taking longer and longer for it to kick in...Last Saturday was the kicker... Story Goes.

I was parked at the Local Crappy Tire, I had just dropped my dog off to the pet store across the lot. (Pitbull with long nails is not fun). Anyways, bored as I was, I decided to get me some Seafoam. Grabbed a few bottles and went to work on my Crank Case, Vacuum line and Gas tank. After all said and done (remember Im doing this without the engine on and by myself) I wanted to crank the engine for... about 30 seconds to a minute to cycle the Seafoam thorugh my system so it can work.

Into the cabin I go and crank. Nothing... Ok... Crank number 2, Click.... Nothing... ok... Pump the gas, check under the hood and connections and try again. Crank, Click, Puff. f***..... Smoke coming out, Not from the exhaust like it should, but from the hood... Hop out and I can smell it.... Double f***... Starters roasted. I run down to the mechanic department of Crappy Tire and get a nice lil quote of 150.00 for the part... Then the nice labour of $300 (???) I asked them if they were taking my whole engine apart as I was baffled at the labour price... Unfortunately for me, I needed my truck for the morning and to get myself and dog home. No choice, requested the work. Called the tow company ($50) for a 100 ft tow. SOL for me as my Mechanic was closed at 13:00 on Saturday and this was going down at 15:00....

After 20 minutes of discussion, I do the walk of shame back to my truck, run my hand along the body and sit in the driver seat. I prayed to the all knowing being above and cranked one last time...... She clicked hard and tried to turn. Holy f*** I froze, ECSTATIC almost.. Pumped the gas and tried one more time and she roars to life, within 5 minutes the open air parkade is FILLED with sea foam -hallelujah- I let her run and roar, revved her high and low.

I shut her down, and ran to the mechanic and cancelled the work order. The day was over, I retrieved my friendly K-9 and headed home... Tuesday Comes around and my Starter isn't getting younger, or better.... I'm at work and made a few calls to mechanics around, and again my mechanic came through with the best deal of $260, rebuilt Starter and installed cash deal. We go with it and he heads out to my work place to pick her up(just after 12:30 or so).

And hour later (14:30), I get the dreaded call "Hey buddy, your starter is toasted, it's a miracle it even starts! we need to get you a new starter" f***... ok... "price now is $320". Still better then anyone else around town. I go with it and get an oil change while I'm at it.

Time ticks and my Mechanic works overtime past his closing just to get my truck back to me, by 17:30 I see my baby roaring into the parkade with my Mechanic behind the wheel, the cash and keys were exchanged and I turn her. The sound of a new starter and the ease of start up is music to my ears. I head home.

The check engine light as been annoying the hell out of me.. August is emissions test month and I'd rather have this headache taken care of sooner then later. I have to find another mechanic for this diagnostic as mine did not have the Smoke machine available. I find one whos well known, licensed, certified by the local Money Grab we call ICBC here in British Columbia. Walk on in and tell the Mechanic the deal.

I tell him my CEL light is NOT on as I had recently replaced the starter. Him, being an honest guy tells me "Look bud, I don't want to burn your cash, I suggest you drive until it come back on otherwise your car is perfectly fine." Sounds legit, although i didnt like the idea of driving 30 minutes back home... 5 minutes down the road at a lovely 43km after the light was off, it comes on. I U-turn and walk right back in. Hes surprised to see me and immediately tells me that it has to be a hard fault. He gladly takes the keys and takes her into the back. Time 12:30.

I take off with a friend who just happened to be nearby and grab some lunch... I've already waited an hour and I'm edgy... Upon my return at 14:30 (had to call into work and say I'll be a no show) and I see the owner. I waltz up to him and ask him whats the glamorous news. He looks at me and says "There is a problem" I brace myself, Give it to me.. " There is no problem, no leaks nothing".... Awkward silence... What!? the lights on, its claims theres a leak... wtf Willis?

The mechanic walks in and takes me to the shop and shows me. I see my truck with its back in lifted and fender guards removed. machines and wires running from nooks and crannies. He explains to me each test he did following a check list from the TSB (copy in my hand) He says the fuel cap is fine (I replaced it OEM 6 months prior when the code first appeared) and shows me all the hoses, pipes and valves that required testing. Nothing... He points at the Evap canister... Just like my own Mechanic ASSUMED without even touching my truck and like other posts in this forum.

Im baffled, annoyed and troubled... I reluctantly ask them to put her back together and discuss repair and costs. Back into the office they search for parts... The best they have is a $254.00 NAPA part. I turned to Rockautoparts and grab one for $195 after discount code and shipped. The total cost of the Smoke and Diagnostics test ran me up to $166. Better then most shops thank god... I now wait, checking day by day for my cursed Canister to come in and PRAY that it is the culprit... Otherwise I will be stripping my Truck and sending her to the yard.... 222.5KM Young.

Any ideas, support, or help would be greatly appreciated. Cats and Sensors have been replaced earlier last year as well if anyone was wondering.

[Towncivilian]

Don't overfill/"top off" your gas tank when you fill up. Stop at the first click. Topping off causes excess fuel to enter the charcoal canister and hastens its demise. If you are not the original owner of your Pathfinder, perhaps the previous owner practiced this and ended up killing the charcoal canister.

What is the bulletin number of the TSB your mechanic supplied? What is the exact engine code? The code in your thread's title is incomprehensible. P1446, maybe?

Don't bother using Seafoam, all it is is:

40 - 60% pale oil as a carrier and light lubricant
25 - 35% naptha, a solvent
10 - 20% IPA (isopropyl alcohol) - a solvent and octane booster when used in the gas, which is why some claim a performance increase when using Seafoam, until the next tank without the added IPA!

The white plume of smoke generated by Seafoam when ingested via a vacuum line is the pale oil burning up. Carbon generates brown smoke when burning, which is why you sometimes see clouds of brown smoke emanating from other vehicles on a highway on-ramp during high load for example; if one drives like a grandma, faster carbon build up can result and a high load can purge some build up. Pale oil also coats the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors, which can impact the sensor's ability to sense and the catalytic converter's, well, catalysing ability. Use a fuel system cleaner containing polyether amines, which is proven to clean deposits without leaving behind its own residue (SAE paper detailing PEA). Products which are known to contain PEA are Chevron Techron, Gumout Regane, and Redline SI-1.

Engine oil blenders spend millions of dollars in research and development to generate a formulation of oil that is designed to meet API requirements and to do the best job lubricating and protecting your engine. Why throw in some harsh solvent such as Seafoam or other snake oil to upset that formulation? If you keep up with oil changes, you should not have any sludge to worry about in the crankcase, and do not require Seafoam or any oil additives for that matter.

As for top-end cleaning, use a product designed for such a task such as Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner or Amsoil Power Foam.

[Innovazn]

Don't overfill/"top off" your gas tank when you fill up. Stop at the first click. Topping off causes excess fuel to enter the charcoal canister and hastens its demise. If you are not the original owner of your Pathfinder, perhaps the previous owner practiced this and ended up killing the charcoal canister.

What is the bulletin number of the TSB your mechanic supplied? What is the exact engine code? The code in your thread's title is incomprehensible. P1446, maybe?

Don't bother using Seafoam, all it is is:

40 - 60% pale oil as a carrier and light lubricant
25 - 35% naptha, a solvent
10 - 20% IPA (isopropyl alcohol) - a solvent and octane booster when used in the gas, which is why some claim a performance increase when using Seafoam, until the next tank without the added IPA!

The white plume of smoke generated by Seafoam when ingested via a vacuum line is the pale oil burning up. Carbon generates brown smoke when burning, which is why you sometimes see clouds of brown smoke emanating from other vehicles on a highway on-ramp during high load for example; if one drives like a grandma, faster carbon build up can result and a high load can purge some build up. Pale oil also coats the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors, which can impact the sensor's ability to sense and the catalytic converter's, well, catalysing ability. Use a fuel system cleaner containing polyether amines, which is proven to clean deposits without leaving behind its own residue (SAE paper detailing PEA). Products which are known to contain PEA are Chevron Techron, Gumout Regane, and Redline SI-1.

Engine oil blenders spend millions of dollars in research and development to generate a formulation of oil that is designed to meet API requirements and to do the best job lubricating and protecting your engine. Why throw in some harsh solvent such as Seafoam or other snake oil to upset that formulation? If you keep up with oil changes, you should not have any sludge to worry about in the crankcase, and do not require Seafoam or any oil additives for that matter.

As for top-end cleaning, use a product designed for such a task such as Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner or Amsoil Power Foam.

Ill double check the sheet I was given but im prestty sure it said P1456. As for filling up the tank, never overfill, just the first click and the lid goes on.

[Towncivilian]

Well, the most likely cause is the gas cap, but you replaced it with a new OEM part 6 months ago as you stated in the first post.

Other causes are:

• Incorrect fuel tank vacuum relief valve
• Incorrect fuel filler cap used
• Fuel filler cap remains open or fails to close.
• Foreign matter caught in fuel filler cap
• Leak is in line between intake manifold and EVAP canister purge volume control solenoid valve.
• Foreign matter caught in EVAP canister vent control valve
• EVAP canister or fuel tank leaks
• EVAP purge line (Pipe and rubber tube) leaks
• EVAP purge line rubber tube bent
• Blocked or bent rubber tube to EVAP control system pressure sensor
• Loose or disconnected rubber tube
• EVAP canister vent control valve and the circuit
• EVAP canister purge volume control solenoid valve and the circuit
• Absolute pressure sensor
• Fuel tank temperature sensor
• O-ring of EVAP canister vent control valve is missing or damaged.
• Water separator
• EVAP canister saturated with water
• EVAP control system pressure sensor
• Refueling control valve
• ORVR system leaks
• Fuel level sensor and the circuit
• Foreign matter caught in EVAP canister purge volume control solenoid valve

Needless to say, that's a huge list. I would check to ensure that no hose around the EVAP canister is clogged, cracked, or otherwise failing to begin with. There is a lengthy diagnostic procedure starting on page EC-626 of the FSM.

I have corrected your thread title to help others who may search "P1456" in the future.

[Innovazn]

The secondary Tech has already diagnosed and evap tested. No leaks ANYwhere... he believes its the canister. Canister is in the mail and fingers are crossed.

Edit :: Should i flash my ECU? What if they refuse to flash and insist on diagnosing on their own?

[Towncivilian]

Flash with what, exactly? There is no TSB related to a P1456 code present, only rear oxygen sensor codes and as far as I know that is only required if the dealer replaces the part - reprogramming is part of the procedure as it is designed to work with an updated genuine O2 sensor. It won't do anything for your current code and you would be charged for one hour of reprogramming.

[Innovazn]

Ive had to replace my O2 sensors, and never flashed my ECU. even the mechs stated it might be a good idea

[Chuck Tribolet]

I agree with Towncivilian that Seafoam is snake oil.

Chuck

[Towncivilian]

My local service adviser said that unless the oxygen sensor code reappears within around 100 miles, reprogramming is not necessary.

[Innovazn]

So... say nay to the seafoam going forward unless its in the gas tank?

[Towncivilian]

Yes. Its use in the gas is probably a waste as well; ethanol is a decent solvent by itself and it's probably better to use a PEA-based cleaner (such products are mentioned in my first reply) once or twice a year instead of Seafoam.

[Innovazn]

Had the Evap Canister on Friday Night. So far, I've driven about 60km with a cleared light.. So far so good. When the Mechanic changed it out, he claims my old one was 3 times heavier then the new one. He states that the old one was saturated and filled with gasoline causing the light to appear. Fingers crossed.

[Towncivilian]

Sounds good. Make sure you never overfill your gas tank to help prolong the life of the canister.

[Innovazn]

Sounds good. Make sure you never overfill your gas tank to help prolong the life of the canister.

First click and the filler comes out. I've never overfilled my truck.

The vehicle was a Repo and belonged to a company that probably abused the living hell out of her.

[Towncivilian]

That's the likely explanation, then. They might've stuffed as much gas as they could into the tank.

[Innovazn]

That's the likely explanation, then. They might've stuffed as much gas as they could into the tank.

yeah, no surprise there....

[Colombia81er]

Good read im one of those that will jam every little drop of gas to my tank =/

[xxectoxx]

noob mistake on my end. I personally top off as much as possible due 2 the terrible gas mileage i get. Thank for the tip!

[doode]

Removing / replacing a starter on my 92 was a giant PITA.

$300 for labour at Cambodian tire sounds about right.

I take it you were at the Grandview Hwy one? Hope you did it underground :-)

I have codes 1448 and 0440...air care isn't due til 2014 and hopefully air care will be gone by then !