Stance GR+ VS. GR+ Pro

[NICONick]

As some of you may or may not recall, I am soon purchasing a set of Stance coilovers. However, I was going to go with the Stance GR+, but then I saw that the GR+ Pro's are only $99 more.

What are the differences between these two?

Is it worth spending the extra $99 on the pro's if they are going on my DD not a track car?

HELP ?

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

As some of you may or may not recall, I am soon purchasing a set of Stance coilovers. However, I was going to go with the Stance GR+, but then I saw that the GR+ Pro's are only $99 more.

What are the differences between these two?

Is it worth spending the extra $99 on the pro's if they are going on my DD not a track car?

HELP ?

GR+ Pro coilovers offer all of the features that is available on the GR+. GR+ Pro coilovers are designed with helper springs.

Helper springs allows the piston to be placed in the optimal position in the shock body, allows full use of rebound stroke, and maximizes articualtion on cars with mininum suspension travel.

It's just $99 extra...go PRO!

[NICONick]

Sounds good to me.

Does anyone want to compare experiences? Whose running which and what they like and don't like about each ?

Any info is greatly appreciated.

[0wn3r]

One difference is the additional set of springs

[94_240sx]

Here's the main difference between those 2. These little helper springs are supposed to help better rebound. Get GR+ Pro. Like boom said, it's only $99 more. Both come with 2 sets of springs 6/8kg and 7/9kg. I use 6/8kg and they are good.

[Clawhammer]

I have the pros. Great ride. Umm very pleased with them...traction spring helps you go lower too I believe. Go pro!

Oh and make sure you preload them before you put them on or you'll be asking why you hear a boingy clicking noise when you turn.

[94_240sx]

I have the pros. Great ride. Umm very pleased with them...traction spring helps you go lower too I believe. Go pro!

Oh and make sure you preload them before you put them on or you'll be asking why you hear a boingy clicking noise when you turn.

Email Stance and tell them you hear this noise when you turn. They will send you a set of new front upper mounts. You shouldn't hear boingy clicking noise although there's no preload. Looks like there was a design flaw or something. Stance takes care of their customers, so don't worry about it.

[NICONick]

I'm liking what I hear, if 240sxmotoring.com keeps them for sale for $1200 when I have the money I will for sure go for them.

I also like what I'm hearing about Stance as a company and taking care of their customers. Something Tokico does NOT do.

Thanks for everything guys. Looks like I'll be going Pro. Although the helper spring, does that affect the ride as being daily driven or is it more of a benefit for track use and abuse?

[nwmrkt]

I keep hearing about preloading coils...what exactly is it and how do you do it?

I have the pros. Great ride. Umm very pleased with them...traction spring helps you go lower too I believe. Go pro!

Oh and make sure you preload them before you put them on or you'll be asking why you hear a boingy clicking noise when you turn.

[NICONick]

the preload is just the little knuckle below the spring that you basically just hand tighten setting it at 0 before you lower the car off of the jack/stands....

Thats what I was told...could be wrong... ?

[94_240sx]

the preload is just the little knuckle below the spring that you basically just hand tighten setting it at 0 before you lower the car off of the jack/stands....

Thats what I was told...could be wrong... ?

After hand tighten setting it at 0, you tighten it more with the wrench to compress the spring. That's pre-loading. This is from SPL site. Check it out. I hand tightened mine, so there's no pre-loading.

http://www.splparts.com/doc/SP...t.htm "When you move the spring perch upwards, you are compressing the spring. As the spring compresses, it exerts a force on the upper mount of the coilover. So when the weight of the car is placed on the upper mount, the weight would have to overcome the spring tension in order to compress the spring any further. Placing the spring under tension is called "pre-loading" the spring."

[AceInhole]

I keep hearing about preloading coils...what exactly is it and how do you do it?

Preloading linear springs is what you do with cheap dampers that have near zero stroke so that you bang the crap out of your piston seals with your droop limiter. It's very common on JDM-tyte suspension.

[0wn3r]

Preloading linear springs is what you do with cheap dampers that have near zero stroke so that you bang the crap out of your piston seals with your droop limiter. It's very common on JDM-tyte suspension.

What suspension do you run anyways? (And don't say Ohlins) Wait, don't you have just a shock/spring combo? I had the impression Stance GR+ Pro was one of the better coilovers in the crowd, but you make it sound terrible

[NICONick]

They are a good set of coilovers. Not sure what he is talking about, maybe he will clarify himself...

[94_240sx]

Preloading linear springs is what you do with cheap dampers that have near zero stroke so that you bang the crap out of your piston seals with your droop limiter. It's very common on JDM-tyte suspension.

AceInhole didn't say that Stance coilovers are cheap. Stance's valving and dampening match pretty good, so you don't have to worry about it. If not, ride will be bouncy and harsh. You misunderstood what he said.

[AceInhole]

What suspension do you run anyways? (And don't say Ohlins) Wait, don't you have just a shock/spring combo?

Currently I've got Koni double adjustable race shocks up front, with standard yellows in back while the housings for my 8610's are being built. I run Ground Control perches with Eibach ERS springs. So, basically I run "just a shock/spring combo". It just happens that the "shocks" I'm running are higher quality than any of the JDM dampers.

Quote »I had the impression Stance GR+ Pro was one of the better coilovers in the crowd, but you make it sound terrible [/quote]I'm sorry if I come off as an arrogant *******, but I'm just irritated with the amount of times I've spelt out the facts to people only to be ignored by someone who goes with the "I want to slam my car to the frame"-choice but tries to pass it off their decision performance based. So, once again, I apologize for how I may have sounded.

Here's the honest truth:I wanted to give Stance a chance with their 3-way adjustable GR3's. I relayed a few e-mails with them and some people who run GR3's, as well as a bunch of guys that know their ****, plus some well-known suspension guru's in the 240sx world (of which some might even go so far as to include me). I even put some thought into Dennis Grant's writeup, even after hearing him bash the STS class (and btw, I was the CNAC STS class champion that year).

Here's my conclusion:I overlayed the plots of whatever I could find, and searched around for the opinions of real racers. At the time, Sasha from Sequence-Garage was just installing the GR3's, so I had a little feedback from him. Tim from Theory In Practice was still in the theory stage for his Bilsteins, and the Bilsteins I had seen on 240sxracing.com seemed hard to come by (although they're the same as the ones Tim is using as a base). I looked up as much as I could on dampers under $2000 (my damper budget at the time), from Tein to Zeal to making custom brackets for Evo/Sti versions of Ohlins Sports and Bilstein PSS9's. I was quoted at $5500 for Koni 28's, and hadn't looked into the 86-series at the time. Moton Club-sports, while not listed for the 240sx, were priced at $3700 for similar setups (strut front, eyelet rear).

Here's what I found along the way: The D2 dyno plots overlayed with the Stance GR+ plots almost EXACTLY on the compression stroke. The rebound stroke had the same curve (mostly linear) with a narrower range. Regardless, they were both nearly triple what they should be at the 10 in/sec range (bumps). It didn't inspire confidence at all for the GR3's, which I had come to assume were the same as GR+ with a simple line from the fill valve to a remote canister (with presumeably the same floater setup inside, and a bleeder for compression adjustment). After seeing the disassembled Silkroads, the dyno plots from the Stance/ D2/ Ksport shocks, and feedback from some gear heads who (rightly so) weren't impressed at all by the shock dynos, I was STILL on the fence with the GR3's, thinking I could machine my own floater, bleeder, and shim stack for the main piston. During this time I was playing with the N2 pressures on my D2's (which I had regretably gone to like a n00b from perfectly fine Koni Yellows, some amount of years ago), since D2 has 3-way adjustable shocks very similar to Stance in Europe (and this should be your final clue that Stance/KSport/D2 all get their dampers from a common source).

Somewhere along the line, I drove a bunch of cars, from Koni Yellows, to triple-adjustable Ohlins, to revalved Bilsteins. It didn't matter which, as they were ALL better than Megan/ D2/ Ksport, which all post similar dyno plots to Stance. Even off-the-shelf Koni Yellows, which are a "sport shock", felt more planted with higher springrates on a lighter car (Datsun 510).

It was about then that I hooked up with veilside180sx on FreshAlloy for housings for 8611's. I had originally found the Koni 8611's while browsing through some catalogs, and somehow got the idea to mount them inside the D2 bodies as an insert. After looking them up, there was a lot of positive feedback on them, especially the newer RACE valved ones with a lot more digression in the force/velocity curve. After liking what I saw, and being quoted at just under $2000 for the full setup, I figured it was the best deal for a budget race setup. Now I'm running 8611's up front, and 8610's (same thing but only rebound adjustable, and a bit cheaper) are being built for the back.

Now, with that explained: I learned a lot about dampers along the way. At first, I was all about preloading the front, to bias roll to the rear after having rear wheel lift issues for a while. You've gotta figure, if suspension travel is limited up front, the rear should stay planted, right? Nope. You just end up with quirky handling. With the piston so far up, the volume ratio in the damper body is quite a bit off. As the piston travels, you get a screwy volume ratio change to match. As such, it seems as though you get screwy handling. However, the coilover "companies" still tell you to run some preload, as if the spring will unseat itself. It's odd though, as they're ALL overdamped at high piston velocities. I'd have to wonder if they're so underdamped at low velocites that the spring somehow unseats itself under normal driving conditons. My 600lb (about 11kg) springs don't seem to, and there's a good inch or two of droop travel with the spring completely loose. Even the standard Koni Yellows in back, which have a good 3 - 4" of completely unloaded droop, are fine (450lb springs, about 8kg).

So, to re-iterate:-I have "just a shock/spring combo" that costs as much as Stance 3-ways.-I still believe Stance = D2 = Ksport = Megan (possibly with different N2 pressures disguised as "valving")-The more you research dampers, the further away you go from "JDM"-If all you care about is slamming your car, you only have to worry about picking the one with colors you like most.

[0wn3r]

a bunch of guys that know their ****, plus some well-known suspension guru's in the 240sx world (of which some might even go so far as to include me).

Haha, I knew I should have taken out that "just"!

Yea man, you're the only one I know (so far) that's got the kind of knowledge I wish I had...unfortunately I play XBox more than I go educate myself

Some generalizations:I think, coming from a noob here, that there are obviously cheap shock/spring combo's a person can put on their car. When people want a step up from that, they are pointed to coilovers. Coilovers seem like they can be best for "out-of-the-box" performance. It also seems like the type of combination that you put together involves some custom work, yet can be more expensive than coilovers.

Long story short, there obviously is no cheap and easy way to get good suspension. In my case, I don't necessarily just want to "slam" my car, but would like something affordable that I could go out and have some fun and better handling with at events and maybe win a couple when you're not competing . I'm not necessarily out to conquer nationals or go pro so spending $2000 vs $1000 becomes a tough decision. However, if I was to spend anywhere around that range, it would be nice to have the realization of what will perform best.

That's why your input is always appreciated...you've tested many things out and have received alot of awesome feedback from others. Not many people, obviously including me, have that type of experience to base our decisions on.

Thx dude!

p.s. I'm pissed ONE is down.

[AceInhole]

Well, the reality is that the thought:

"coilovers are better than a spring/ strut/shock combo"

is just a generalization. However, it isn't true. Koni Yellows will out-perform most "coilovers" in the sub $1500 range, AND have a lifetime warranty. Combine them with a good set of springs (Ground Control or even custom perches with your choice of 2.5" springs) and you're good to go. Somehow, the "crap" dampers along with people over-lowering (slamming) cars gave the good performance dampers a bad name, and you end up with a generalization.

The only problem is: since Ohlins and Bilstein bolt-on dampers aren't available state-side, you pretty much only have Koni as a viable bolt-on option, and even then, the struts require "custom fabrication". Anyways, take a look at the DSG Time Attack S13 that many people drool over: it runs Ohlins struts with Koni yellows (that I've heard haven't even been revalved).

For about $1000, you could probably run Koni yellows all around with GC springs/ perches. A bit more and you could have Bilsteins imported, which aren't adjustable, but cost $65 per damper to have revalved for whatever (which means unlimited springrate selection), AND are inverted monotube up front. The best part is: people will never realize you've got 11kg/mm springs on the car because your dampers ACTUALLY WORK.

[nismofly]

when i talked to bill washburn last year i believe he told me the ohlins had been rebuilt for the front but i cant remember what he was running in the rear at the time

ill see him again this weekend...youre not coming down to vir by any chance are you?

you and tim are two out of maybe 4 people id like to learn from before i buy race dampers

[NICONick]

This turned into something way more complicated than it needed to be. The performance that all these set-ups give I'm sure is great and serves their purpose. Serving their purpose being the most important part of that statement. I have no doubt that you guys know a great deal more than prob 95% of the people out there, however, with that being said the purpose I want my suspension to serve is making my car more fun to drive on the daily basis while giving it an aggressive stance. I really do not plan to track the car, maybe for fun, but by no means am I trying to become a pro racer or track whore.

I simply want my car to handle better than stock, and be more enjoyable on a daily basis. With the aggressive stance I want, coilovers will provide this along with the obvious amateur performance that I desire.

So while this information is much appreciated I am in no way saying $1200 coilovers are the be all end all, but for what I want and need them to do they will be perfect.

[AceInhole]

Good luck with your purchase, although black and gold is outdated. The hotness is now gold and orange. At least you can admit that you care more about slamming the car than ride quality and performance, which is more than most people can say.

[yokota180sx]

and you know the ****ty partI agree with youI would MUCH RATHER have a fantastic dampner with a GC setup if i ahd the time to figure out exactly what i wanted/needed.i mean, really money isnt even a constraint. but alas i dont, so i get off the shelf ****Plus i really do love ot be slammed, now, if i could figure out a way to be completely slammed and sitll run a 18/16k spring setup on my stagea, id be ****ing soldbut, since my coiovers suck ***, i have to go back down to 12/10 and find some other way to do this ****

Well, the reality is that the thought:

"coilovers are better than a spring/ strut/shock combo"

is just a generalization. However, it isn't true. Koni Yellows will out-perform most "coilovers" in the sub $1500 range, AND have a lifetime warranty. Combine them with a good set of springs (Ground Control or even custom perches with your choice of 2.5" springs) and you're good to go. Somehow, the "crap" dampers along with people over-lowering (slamming) cars gave the good performance dampers a bad name, and you end up with a generalization.

The only problem is: since Ohlins and Bilstein bolt-on dampers aren't available state-side, you pretty much only have Koni as a viable bolt-on option, and even then, the struts require "custom fabrication". Anyways, take a look at the DSG Time Attack S13 that many people drool over: it runs Ohlins struts with Koni yellows (that I've heard haven't even been revalved).

For about $1000, you could probably run Koni yellows all around with GC springs/ perches. A bit more and you could have Bilsteins imported, which aren't adjustable, but cost $65 per damper to have revalved for whatever (which means unlimited springrate selection), AND are inverted monotube up front. The best part is: people will never realize you've got 11kg/mm springs on the car because your dampers ACTUALLY WORK.

[Encryptshun]

and you know the ****ty partI agree with youI would MUCH RATHER have a fantastic dampner with a GC setup if i ahd the time to figure out exactly what i wanted/needed.i mean, really money isnt even a constraint. but alas i dont, so i get off the shelf ****Plus i really do love ot be slammed, now, if i could figure out a way to be completely slammed and sitll run a 18/16k spring setup on my stagea, id be ****ing soldbut, since my coiovers suck ***, i have to go back down to 12/10 and find some other way to do this ****

Extend your strut towers.

[0wn3r]

although black and gold is outdated. The hotness is now gold and orange.

I've been drinking a Rockstar energy drink for breakfast. It's black, gold, AND orange. God I'm so hot.

NICONick, this thread became 100x better with that information he gave right there...

[NICONick]

As stated before the information is awesome and I'm glad to have learned what I have, but I will reiterate that for my application and what I want, Stance coilovers is what Im looking at.

Thanks again, more info is always appreciated

[0wn3r]

As stated before the information is awesome and I'm glad to have learned what I have, but I will reiterate that for my application and what I want, Stance coilovers is what Im looking at.

Thanks again, more info is always appreciated

don't forget to come back and say how you like them....and brings pics!