SS Tubular Manifold, or Stock Cast Iron Manifold Extrude Honed?

[SixSpeedSleuth]

Just as the title of the post says, what would have the most longevity v.s the most gains between the two? I hear Extrude Honeing is great.

[Nismo_Freak]

It's pricey, go with a quality tubular and you will make more power and have decent longevity.

[codyace]

I've asked this question on this forum as well as Zilvia with hardly any response....(Fresh Alloy is blocked by the Air Force Net that we use here on the Army side of Kirkuk in Iraq)

I'm saying go cast manifold with extrude hone. It's the same price as a good tubular manifold and will never crack. Certainly you can get 3 SSAC tubulars for one extrude job, but to me, i'd rather do it once and be happy...plus it helps spool your turbo even quicker in all of the FWD sr applications that I've read about/been in....

BTW: I'll be getting my manifold and turbine housing extruded...I figure this combo will help spool the GT2871r .64 housing faster than the disco potato...or at least on par

[codyace]

Here are some pictures of a FWD Sr20 (GTiR) manifold that we had extruded:

BEFORE\/ \/ \/ \/

AFTER \/ \/ \/ \/

[SixSpeedSleuth]

Hmmm, this is some interesting information. So, I have the Disco Potato, getting my cast manifold Extrude honed will make it spool even faster? What about the SS tubular manifold? Same conclusion? This is something to think about....But, the pics of the GTIR Manifold look amazing...I bet it does flow a whole lot better.

[codyace]

Dude, I couldn't imagine how awesome the 28rs would be if you got the manifold AND the turbine housing honed....that thing would have out of this world spool-up time!!!!

Extrude hone is the **** though...Ford SVT program uses it extensivly, and alot of DSM and SR guys like the process too!!

I have no information about a tubular manifolds flow charecteristics, but I do with the extrude hone...a friend of mine has a special big t28 and it made a night and day difference with it!!!

I believe Nissan Performance Mag is also using the process on their 1.8 sentra project car

http://www.gethoned.com

[Nismo_Freak]

I would not hone the turbine housing.

They are designed by Garrett to have a specific scroll radius.

[SixSpeedSleuth]

I would not hone the turbine housing.

They are designed by Garrett to have a specific scroll radius.

Thanks for the info. Right now, I'm at about 50/50 on if I'm gonna go with Extrude Honing the stock manifold or Tubular. They both seem to have benefits and short comings.

[Nismo_Freak]

Thanks for the info. Right now, I'm at about 50/50 on if I'm gonna go with Extrude Honing the stock manifold or Tubular. They both seem to have benefits and short comings.

You have to keep in mind that extrude honing wil take a good amount of material out of the manifold, you may introduce cracking issues to it by doing so.

Forged Stainess vs. Cast Iron

[codyace]

Forged stainless manifolds are nice, but very expensive IMO. You def pay for what you get.

The extrude hone process does take alot out, but only if you ask them too. There is a 2 step process...either thenorm, or the max. The pics I posted are of the step 2

As for manifolds cracking: None to date that I know about in the FWD world...

And as for the turbine housing: I just sent an email to a friend, who is going to call up Rob Cadle about that situation. I figure Rob would be the man to ask, as he's a engineer at Garrett and helped design the disco potato....Not doubting you any, as your theory makes sense, just figure I'd get his opinion on it too I would think that you'd hafta extrude ALOT of material to effect it,but it is possible I'd say....

Some DSM guys have seen great improvement with the process on the tubrine housings too...
Modified by codyace at 9:24 AM 8/15/2005

[codyace]

I think I can already predict Rob's answer by this article:

http://www.nissanperformancema...shtml

[codyace]

Just got the email back from Ray, who had a similar convo with Rob a year back when he had the process done..

To half *** quote Cadle, the extrude process on turbine housings does an excellent job of smoothing the housing out without taking to much material out. He basically stated that they aren't nearly as aggressive on housings as they are on other cast pieces, such as intakes and manifolds.

Another tidbit is to date the process has never hindered any project they have dealt with or heard about, and has always gotten great reviews.

It would seem silly to not spend the money if you want the best option. I have the next 6 months of my life booked in Iraq, so I have all the time in the world to prepare for my project

[SixSpeedSleuth]

Thanks for all the effort you put into to helping me make my decision. Since you have the next Six Months to prepare, you should have one bad *** SR. I am still really undecided since I'm having a hard time finding somebody near me that Extrude Hones. So, Hmmm. I really don't know.

[codyace]

http://www.gethoned.com

There are only 2 locations for extrude hone...

One in California, and another in PA

CA does anythign and everythign while the one in PA only does cylinder heads the last I knew..

Thanks for the support...I hope my project will end up being somethign really turns out how I have planned. I'm not aiming for top end HP, but instead I'm looking for the most plentiful powerband I can create....GT2871 .64, Jim Wolf S3 Cams and gears, Extrude Honed manifold and housing, JWT ECU, greddy intake manifold...all while retaining stock valvetrain componentry (aside from cams+gears)

While I always like seeing hi power cars, I never liked the fact that they then would loose their daily driver appeal...because of this another goal of mine is to retain full daily driver ability, but still be able to have Cobra eating ability

[Nismo_Freak]

I personally don't see alot of gain from the housing due to the increase in stagnation you get from the smooth surface.

Just something else to think about.

Plus you are spending quite a bit of money for the process. Money better spent on other items, like a real engine management which not only can increase driveability, but increases adaptability, response, and the ability to move to a MAP setup.

[codyace]

I'd love to move up to a Standalone, however I don't think I have the personal drive to run with one on my daily driver...plus it would go against my goals for the car...

However I think I were creating a full out track car (not drag) I would run the standalone...always wanted to create a track slut b13 like Mike Kojima's dog car....

For the cost of the hone on the housing, the only other item I could see being worthwhile for the equal cost would be cam gears. Obvioulsy you can get alot of items for less than 130 bucks, but I'm basing the hone and cam gears on a relative scale of improvment...

135 dollars is worth it for me. We noticed a very distinct improvement in not only out 'butt dyno's but on a true one as well. Boost came on nearly 450 rpm sooner, and this was on top of the 500 or so gained from the manifold....I don't recall how much peak power it gained (again peak power only is gay), but it def helped widen the powerband and make for a much more fun car!! It pretty much enabled us to run more boost with the same response of running on lower levels...

As far as inlet stagnation, I can't be sure on how this process would effect it to the point of itbeing harmful. I only know very little on the effect of stagnation on air flow (in smooth vs rough surface), as i'm a bit 'ignorant' on the topic, and would need more information to read to further make an educated opinion...don't mean to sound 'dumb' on the topic, but I truely am with stagnation... (hey, at least I can admit it though!!)

Still though, not sure how extrudeing can hurt anything. Nobody that I know or have heard of has had any problems with the process, and it's even recommended by a Garrett engineer as well as other renouned nissan turbo heads....
Modified by codyace at 5:26 AM 8/17/2005

[Nismo_Freak]

135 dollars is worth it for me. We noticed a very distinct improvement in not only out 'butt dyno's but on a true one as well. Boost came on nearly 450 rpm sooner, and this was on top of the 500 or so gained from the manifold....I don't recall how much peak power it gained (again peak power only is gay), but it def helped widen the powerband and make for a much more fun car!! It pretty much enabled us to run more boost with the same response of running on lower levels...

Still though, not sure how extrudeing can hurt anything. Nobody that I know or have heard of has had any problems with the process, and it's even recommended by a Garrett engineer as well as other renouned nissan turbo heads....

Think of extruding as a form of port and polishing, only it's more heavily based on real flow patterns and not experience due to the process itself. Which makes it seemingly foolproof.

Just keep in mind that you are increasing area, and this will decrease pressure. In the grasp of overall axial flow and turbine flow you sometimes stand to gain less by such a process.

I am on board with the process, especially with the stock manifold, but I would not expect to see the same results as a proper thin wall manifold. Then again you are getting maybe 80% of the immediate benefit with 50% of the cost.

Oh and why bother with a FWD when you can build a RWD car and run in the same class.

[codyace]

You are very correct about the stock manifold vs a aftermarket tubular, however I'm the kind of person that enjoys OEM reliability. IMO the only manifolds I would even consier buying that were equal length and or tubular are all extremely expensive, to the point where I think I'd be happy paying half the cost for 80 percent of the overall gain. Again I'm trying to create something that is attainable for the most part, and for some, justifying the cost of a 750 dollar + manifold doesn't make sense...to me it does, but for some others it doesn't. I guess the overall opinion is really dependent on funding lol??

And as for car, I'm not really sure why I would go FF....I just am a older sentra slut I guess??? If I was really serious though (beyond 1 or 2 track events a month) I do believe I'd work up a mr2....

BTW Nismo Freak, I do appreciate your comments in this thread...you always manage to keep the conversation on topic while bringing up things I have over looked and or not considered...

Sometimes the worst part about joining a new forum is that some members fall into the trap of postcount=knowledge, and automatically count out 'new guys'....glad that isn't the case here!!!

[180crafter]

Yeah.. Nismo has always been a great dude. Super helpful and way too smart for his own good.