SR20DET Metal Shavings - Posing a ?

[illusivesouls]

Hi,

I recently replaced my head gasket on my SR20DET and it ran fine for a while, but then it died at 3000 RPMs. It would crank, had spark, had fuel, etc. and I opened the valve covers and found that the cams were all intact and nothing else looked amiss.

However, I did see a major issue and that was metal shavings resting in the oil between the valve springs and I even found a small metal chunk about half the size of a dime inside the valve cover. I do not see any MAJOR damage any where and do not see where the shavings come from, except for maybe on the timing links where it appears the spikes may have been hitting something.

I am not sure how much damage these metal shavings might have done, and a friend recommended I simply purchase a new SR20DET. I am considering just pulling the engine and taking it to a shop to have the entire thing rebuilt for the approx. cost of what the new SR20DET would cost...upgrading as much as I can afford (2-3k).

Reliable used SR20DETs are harder and harder to find nowadays and it has been difficult for me to locate a trusted seller of these engines. (I had originally used Heavy Throttle, but they are out of business.)

How severe are my issues going to be with having an unknown amount of metal shavings bouncing around in my engine for an indetermined amount of time? Is it some thing that a rebuild can repair?

Just looking for some advice on the right direction to take.

Thanks!

[moso]

any amount of metal in your motor is a bad thing (unless it was just rebulit then its common for a short time) especially chunks of metal (never good) i would at least take off the front cover and oil pan to find out where its coming from. rebuilding your motor would definitely solve your problem as you have no idea how long the metals may have been eating away at your bearings. if your hard on your motor its possible that those metals have really eaten up your bearings and rebuilding after a spun bearing is more costly than a standard rebuild, throwing a rod would be catastrophic and make your block useless to rebuild.

[illusivesouls]

Basically, the HG was changed. I got the car started, drove it no more than 10 miles, and it died at 3k RPM. Just shut off. No loud mechanical noise or anything.

I tried to crank it and the engine would turn, but not start up. I checked to see if I had fuel, spark, etc. and I did. However, it would not start up. The engine would just crank and crank and crank but not seem to get any pressure or drag as it tried to crank. It would just spin.

I opened the valve cover, looked around, checked my camshafts, lifters, etc. and everything appears fine. Then I noticed the metal flakes built up around the edges sitting in puddles of oil and I found a single chunk of metal about the half size of a dime.

I called a Machine shop today and they quoted me 1.5k (very rough estimate, said I needed to talk to the guy who gives the actual prices on Monday) for a a full rebuild on the entire block.

I am not sure what kind of problems these metal shavins could cause and how irreversible the damage may be? I know its bad, just not HOW bad.

[moso]

have you tried doing a compression check? have you checked to make sure your cams rotate with the crank (timing chain intact). i have heard of dizzys pitching gears, timing chain guides exploding, oil pump falures, busted ring lands, broken valves, broken timing chains, chewed through front covers..... the list goes on and on, all of these things will put metal in your oil, all of these things i would rebuild my motor after. the fact is if there are metal shavings between your crank and rods or crank and block thay will scar your bearings and make little passages for oil to travel in when the bearing is under heavy load instead of supporting the opposing part. thats bad. if you really clean out and baby the he** out of your motor you may be able to get away with it for a while but if you drive that beast you will wash out your bearing sooner or later. metals + oil = bad news.

[illusivesouls]

Oh no no no, I am not like that. I have already called the machine shop. I just don't know enough about this particular problem to know if a machine shop can easily fix it. I honestly have never driven this car hard. I use it as a quick daily driver that gets me from home and to work. I have a 300ZX that I am a little rougher on but the SR20 hasn't beat up on at all.

I have already called a machine shop and basically want to get a full rebuild done. What would 2 to 3k $ on average get me in terms of building an engine? I would be happy with it basically being brand new in terms of being rebuilt. I have already changed all the gaskets on the engine but I will do that again if need be.

I am going to go with Apexi or Cosworth HG and ARP studs. I do not plan on boosting above 8psi, maybe 9psi, and will probably keep it at 7 psi for a LONG time. I'm not out for that much HP at the moment. I'm the type that wants to build it first, then get the power out of it.

I just do not have any experience with engines that have metal shavings and machine shops. I do not know what they are capable of.

What should I expect from the machine shop and what should I ask for if I want the engine to be in the best possible condition when I get it back?

Also, I know I will have to remove the engine but do I need to disassemble it or do they usually do that? What about putting it back together? I will ask the machine shop to make sure but just curious how this process usually works.

Thanks for your help. :>

[Azrial]

When dealing with engines your not going to see the damage with the naked eye unless it's totally screwed. If your going to pay someone to do a total rebuild you might as well order the whole block assembled. It will probably end up being cheaper and more reliable. Metal shavings are bad news especially if it is enough of them that you can clearly see. Your best bet if you aren't trying to make big horsepower is to just order another sr20 and change the gaskets. Since you don't need all of the turbo's etc it shouldn't be that costly. That's what I would do in your situation. But it's your car and your money.

[ericb382]

Sounds like you probably had the cam timing off after you changed the HG and had a little piston/valve collision. Like stated above, untill you have the motor pulled apart, you won't know what you need to have done. I say pull the motor out and pull it apart yourself. That part is pretty straight forward and hard to mess up. Just remember to loosen things that need to stay straight in multiple steps (refer to the FSM for more detail.)

Honestly though, it will be cheaper to get a long block than to rebuild that one, even if you did re-assemble it yourself.

[illusivesouls]

Ok thanks for the responses...

just a couple more questions. Where would I get a long block other than ordering a new used engine from an online supplier? I don't have local shops to check the engine out at beforehand so I usually try to find the most reliable source online. When I ordered mine, that was Enjuku...

I've been talking to a couple of places and have looked at the stickies regarding where to get an SR20...but I am wanting to make sure thats what u r referring to.

The machine shop, called Womacks, is located in New Orleans and quoted me 1.5k for a rebuild. A new used engine will cost me about 2k to 2.6k to order when factoring in shipping.

However, I don't need the trans and all the other stuff really...

Thanks again

[moso]

call the guys at Rite Way Ring and Piston thay are in new orleans and thay did the head and block on my ka24de and did one hell of a job, great guys and thay have been arround forever. as far as sourcing a short block i got nothing. sorry.

[illusivesouls]

LOL thats the tricky part...one person says get a rebuild, the next person says its not worth it, get a new used engine...

I have 2.5k available to get this fixed and I want to do it the right way. I am still working on getting the engine out of the car (should be out tomorrow if it doesn't rain) and I will have to figure out whats the best thing to do.

I am selling my 300zx next month so I need the 240 running and runningly as reliably as possible.

[illusivesouls]

How does it work with a machine shop such as Womacks? Do you drop off the engine unassembled and they strip it apart, clean it up, spec it, and re-assemble it or do you have to reassemble the finished product?

[moso]

i have never worked with womacks, but with most machine shops thay will accept a motor either assembled or disassembled (if its apart make sure you keep your main bearing carriers in the block and keep the head assembled) if its apart it will be cheaper. thay will usually hot tank and inspect your parts telling you what services you need like boring, honing, valve jobs, and head milling or decking. (you should discuss your future internals before dropping it off like aftermarked pistons or connecting rods, what manufacturer bearings you want) if thay assemble it of course it will cost more. i usually ask to have my short block assembled (crank, connecting rods, pistons) and have my head assembled. then i install the block and put the head on while its in the car.

[illusivesouls]

Thank you very much for all of the help. I'll talk with Womacks tomorrow and see what I can get done.

I do appreciate all the information I got here. Thanks again.