SR20DET Head Bolt Question: ARP, Greddy, or OEM?

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Well, I've talked to a few people, and I've heard that the ARP bolt's threads aren't machined correctly so they incorrectly distribute the load on the edges of the block's threads; Causing the eventual stripping of the threads in the block. Just trying to get people's inputs and experiences with ARP head studs. I really don't want to sped over $300 for the Greddy Bolts, and I don't know if the OEM Nissan ones will hold up to the 22psi I intend to throw at the engine. I'm going to use the Apexi HG regardless.

[Hijacker]

This is the first time I've ever heard of ARP having that issue. ARP is the industry leader as far as head studs go and I have never heard of anybody complaining about poor machining and failures.

A quick google search yielded this thread from EvoM.net. The OP even mentions that it's really hard to ruin an ARP stud this way and that they've used ARP products for a long time with no failures.

Perhaps the people who have had any kind of thread issue like that didn't properly install them. I could see that being an issue if you put a torque load on the stud and then torqued the nut down. ARP says to hand tighten the studs and then torque the nut down. If you preload the stud then torque down the nut, you're in effect increasing the load on the stud threads and the block threads, and that could eventually lead to fatigue of the threads. Also, if they don't seat the studs all the way down, I could see a similar issue with the threads as you have less thread engagement trying to hold the same torque load.

[burnin240sx]

i used to work for top hat as the lead tech for a few years. i have put many a ARP head bolts on SR's KA's and RB's. I have never seen any issue with the ARP products. i personaly have ARP (rods, Mains, and Head bolts.) in my 325 hp RB25. I would say ARP all the way

[2_Liter_Turbo]

This is directly from an e-mail I received from Scott at RS Enthalpy:

--------------------------------"NO ARP HEAD BOLTS!!! use NEW stock headbolts from your local nissan dealer from a 91 Sentra SE-R 2.0L!!!!........... ARP bolts do not engage enough of the threads int he block and may result in the threads pulling out of your block. I have seen this occur on a few motors in person! the stock bolts are wicked strong and you most likely wont hurt them at anything under 600 hp."-------------------------------

I've never heard of issues either until this e-mail, and I just wanted to confirm or debunk what he said.

[Hijacker]

That's odd that Scott said that. I, personally, have never seen what he's talking about happen. However, I can check to see how much thread engagement the ARP studs have versus the stock headbolts as I have a block, studs, and bolts to compare.

Scott's speaking from experience, and he's one of the guys I really look up to for that. Anything is possible in the motor world, but I have yet to see what he's describing happen to an SR. He's right about the stock headbolts being strong, but the point of upgrading to studs isn't for increased strength, it's about even clamping load across the headgasket. That's something that torque to yield bolts don't seem to do very well. Primarily because when people install them, they don't have all the proper tools to do it with.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Yeah, I was pretty surprised that he said that. I've never heard of issues personally either!

[DrifterProdigy85]

ARP Head Studs are good. ARP Head Bolts apparently arent. Also ive ran 24psi from a 2871R on stock headbolts and stock HG. No problems were had. Tuning is the real reason people blow stuff. I run ARP Head Studs and Apexi HG now.

[TeKKiE]

ARP studs are okay, and so are bolts, but they will not do for your application.

We have MANY FWD SR motors that do not like ARP studs with high boost applications. The head gasket never fails, but the head lifts under high pressure. No signs of detonation to be found.

The problem with ARP head studs/bolts is that they DON'T BOTTOM OUT, in the block. There's no pre-loading the thread because of this, and will lead to thread stretching in time. I've seen over a few SR20VE+T's with this issue, and at least 3 or 4 DE+T's with it.

Stock studs/bolts are good to 400whp. If you're wanting more, look for AEBS, or GReddy/Jun/Etc.

AEBS is by far the best bang for buck application. IF you can find them, you can get them for $160, and they're designed after OEM studs, unlike ARP's head studs.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Where can you find the AEBS bolts? I looked and could only find QR25DE and B series honda ones.

[homeslicej2]

wow. Very interesting stuff. I've never heard this about ARP either.

[MagbeeA4]

very interesting good to know good post!

[URAS]

i cant vouch for ARP's in FWd motors but in RWD i have used ARP in ALL our engines and have NEVER had a failure in 6years... even on engines running 2.0bar and over 500rwhp.

http://www.statustuning.com/?section=workshop

http://www.statustuning.com/se...2.jpgh ... se...4.jpg

[jr_ss]

I've never had an issue with ARP's as well... I think alot of it has to fall in the category of user error, whether it be not using the moly lube or not tightening in the 4 equal steps...

El, how much power do you plan on making? Drifter is pushing 500whp and I don't think he's had an issue.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

I'm just planning on maxing out my GT3071R right now, so around 450-490whp or so, lol. Man, this thread is way old! ha ha

[Ser200sx567]

One thing i'd like to add is make sure you DO NOT!!!! use a tap on any thread in your engine. You have to use a Thread Chaser, There 50 bucks on summitt. I've had threads strip out in a block before because I've made that mistake.

[exhsturbine]

never had an issue with arp hardware. if its good enough for aircraft (which in effect is holding together peoples lives) its good enough to clamp a headgasket. i had ordered my arp head studs from sr20 store. when i received them, they were actually for a volkswagen 1.8 motor. i called to say that they were wrong, and the guy on the phone told me that the studs for the sr20 are actually short, and they use the volkswagen set, which must be for the purpose of said "failure to seat the hole completely". i had torqued them down properly after chasing the threads, used the supplied lube, and my fathers torque wrench which gets sent out every month for calibration. after about 500 miles or so, i took hijackers advice and retorqued them. i have never had a problem.

[boro drift]

Whenever you replace a bolt with a stud,(especially head or mains,) you MUST bottom tap the hole. The factory uses tapper taps for blind holes so the threads come up short about .250" from the bottom of the hole. Therefor, if you don't use a bottom tap to cut the rest of the threads, the stud will not seat in the bottom of the hole.

[karmakaze]

i have had the greddy and the ARP head studs side by side, hands down, the greddy are superior.

[Ser200sx567]

Whenever you replace a bolt with a stud,(especially head or mains,) you MUST bottom tap the hole. The factory uses tapper taps for blind holes so the threads come up short about .250" from the bottom of the hole. Therefor, if you don't use a bottom tap to cut the rest of the threads, the stud will not seat in the bottom of the hole.

Very interesting makes a lot of sense actually. gonna do that on my build