Sr20det drove home. no start today ****pics added!!!!*****

[redsx13]

So I drove home yesterday around 10pm, when I went to start this morning it just cranked and cranked.

Injectors are spraying (pulled out rail and verified)
Plugs are firing
No stuck injectors
No bad injector orings
Checked compression

Replaced ecu
Replaced cas
Replaced ecu temp sensor

It sounds completely dead, it cranks, but doesn't even pop or sputter. Also, the exhaust smells like unburnt fuel, and the plugs are wet with fuel

[compactfean]

Maybe it just flooded out. Pull the fuel pump fuse and crank it for a bit. If it won't start because its flooded, than it should start for a little bit with fuel pump fuse unplugged and then die. Also check your start signal fuse. (if car was wired properly)

[redsx13]

Maybe it just flooded out. Pull the fuel pump fuse and crank it for a bit. If it won't start because its flooded, than it should start for a little bit with fuel pump fuse unplugged and then die. Also check your start signal fuse. (if car was wired properly)

What is the start signal fuse? And where is it located?

[compactfean]

Driver side kick panel. It gives the ecu 12v when starting so the ecu knows to give it the proper amount of fuel when starting. In other words, if your start signal fuse is blown starter fluid would start out right up.

[redsx13]

**update!!!****

-Checked injector o rings for leaks-none
-checked fuel pressure -40 psi
-replaced coolant temp sensor

so when I pull the fuel pump fuse I can get it to start up for a second or 2 at a time. It does this till it runs out of gas in the rail. But the problem is, the second I plug the fuse back in it floods the motor like crazy and won't start until I pull the fuse again.

Why????

[compactfean]

Sounds like One of the injectors (or multiple ones) are getting grounded out BEFORE the ecu grounds them out. Id pull the fuel rail and put some paper towels under it and check the spray pattern. You can pull the cas and mark it before you spin it. Spinning it should fire each injector individually. (be careful, unplug the coils and stay away from any ignition source).

[redsx13]

Sounds like One of the injectors (or multiple ones) are getting grounded out BEFORE the ecu grounds them out. Id pull the fuel rail and put some paper towels under it and check the spray pattern. You can pull the cas and mark it before you spin it. Spinning it should fire each injector individually. (be careful, unplug the coils and stay away from any ignition source).

Ok, so I rotated the CAS, when I do, all injectors fire at once!!!

Like they are ALL working off the ground signal from injector #1?

What would cause this??

[compactfean]

Ecu fried or a section of your engine harness is damaged. If all the injectors signal wires are touching causing them to fire at once you would have continuity from one injector to another. If the signal wires are shorted to ground somehow the signal wires from the injectors would have continuity from signal wire to chassis ground with the ecu disconnected.

[redsx13]

Ecu fried or a section of your engine harness is damaged. If all the injectors signal wires are touching causing them to fire at once you would have continuity from one injector to another. If the signal wires are shorted to ground somehow the signal wires from the injectors would have continuity from signal wire to chassis ground with the ecu disconnected.

Just put in another ecu, same thing. I'm going to check out the harness some more, but it is brand new, not like a 15 year old JDM factory harness

I never would have guessed that rotating the cas would do that, lets figure this thing out, you are my savior haha, so all injectors definitely shouldn't fire at one when you rotate the cas right? What would be the next place you would check?

[compactfean]

Yeah id do some further testing and narrow it down as much as you can. Have you pulled codes?

[redsx13]

Yeah id do some further testing and narrow it down as much as you can. Have you pulled codes?

No I haven't because I've been unplugging sensors, and messing with them, and swapping ecus and stuff.

Here's the thing, if the injectors were grounding on the chassis, then they would all just fire the second you turned the ignition switch. The fact that they are pulsing must either mean they are all grounded to each other, or the ecu is telling them all to fire at once which doesn't make any sense.

[compactfean]

^true, only thing I can think of would be if the cas is messing up but I wouldn't think that would be the case since the ign firing is still working (when you pull fuel pump fuse it runs...... Proper spark)

[redsx13]

^true, only thing I can think of would be if the cas is messing up but I wouldn't think that would be the case since the ign firing is still working (when you pull fuel pump fuse it runs...... Proper spark)

Only runs for a couple seconds at a time when I pull the fuse. won't even pop with the fuse plugged in. Do you know if this motor runs with a waste spark?

I guess I'm just confused on how a proper motor should function. On my motor the injectors fire all at once and the plugs have some sort of firing order. (When I spin the cam angle sensor)

[blkvrtswp]

I have read that during startup for around 4 seconds all 4 injectors will batch fire at the same time.

[redsx13]

I have read that during startup for around 4 seconds all 4 injectors will batch fire at the same time.

Awesome, thanks for the info!!!
So for some reason the car is stuck in this mode? that would explain why there would be too much gas.

This function is controlled by the ecu, but what tells the ecu that the motor has actually started so it knows to turn this function off?

This is the only thing I could think of, I know it's a rich fuel issue.

[blkvrtswp]

CAS signal to the ECU indicates engine rotation. For example, the fuel pump will shut off after 3-4 seconds if the ECU does not see the CAS signal indicating engine rotation.

If the CAS alignment is off a little it will be even harder to start if it is just a little too wet in the cylinders.

I would pull the CAS, pull the plugs, dry the cylinders with a hair dryer, plugs back in, install CAS making sure it is 100% perfect (it is easy to get this wrong), give her a shot. Good luck!

[redsx13]

CAS signal to the ECU indicates engine rotation. For example, the fuel pump will shut off after 3-4 seconds if the ECU does not see the CAS signal indicating engine rotation.

If the CAS alignment is off a little it will be even harder to start if it is just a little too wet in the cylinders.

I would pull the CAS, pull the plugs, dry the cylinders with a hair dryer, plugs back in, install CAS making sure it is 100% perfect (it is easy to get this wrong), give her a shot. Good luck!

So I tried everything you said, still the same thing? Will only start with the fuel pump fuse unplugged, and even then for only about 6 seconds, if you plug the fuse in during this time it will instantly die. Also, I need to hold the throttle wide open for it to idle for those 6 seconds

[blkvrtswp]

Post pictures of your CAS install & alignment so we can verify it is correct.

[redsx13]

Post pictures of your CAS install & alignment so we can verify it is correct.

Ok, I can do that, I basically aligned the first timing mark (the far left when looking at the front of the motor) on the crankshaft, when piston #1 is at tdc on the power stroke. Then the hash mark on the cas to the dot on the shaft of the cas.

[compactfean]

Its supposed to be the dot on the right.... The upper one. But yes.... Pics....

[redsx13]

Ok. So I cranked the motor over and over and over and over by hand (spark plugs out, socket on crankshaft), I don't think I could ever get the light marks on the timing chain to line up with the cam gear marks. Ever. Didnt think much of it because the motor has been rebuilt, but now that I think of it, I'm not sure that there is any way to properly align the cam gears without those marks right???

[compactfean]

Yes you can align it without those marks. In fact, I never use the marks on the chain (once you spin the motor, who knows how many times it would take to get them to come back to the same exact spot) put engine at tdc, exhaust cam must have the dowell pin straight up (perfect 90° from the head) once you have that done than count 20 teeth from the DOT on the exhaust cam gear to dot on the intake cam gear. insert tensioner, rotate motor counter clockwise until the hook on the adjuster drops. Then spin motor clockwise 2 full rotations and check final timing. If good than insert cas with upper dot lined up with notch......, when installed it will, move itself to the dot on the left.

[blkvrtswp]

Since the engine was running fine, I am assuming the cam timing is fine. It is the CAS timing that is suspect since it was removed.

#1: if the engine is 180 degrees off of top dead center, installing the CAS perfectly will result in no start plus flooding issues.

Make 100% sure the engine is at TDC as the first thing. Forget about the chain links - you are past that.

Then pics of you installing the CAS.

[Jmoore124]

Follow the distributor install, but instead of using the rotor cap as a guide take the number one plug out and turn it over until you get compression on that cylinder (put your hand over hole or a gauge) then follow TDC marks on the main pulley to make sure you have that on the correct stroke. I agree with most of what Blkvrtswp has said, and if it ran (well) before this problem happened you are probably overlooking something small. It sounds to me like it is overfueling. Post pics of CAS installation and make sure you have the dizzy in right.(it can be installed 180 degrees off very easily)

[redsx13]

So heres some pics of the cas timing. I'm pretty sure it's correct, what do you guys think?

[compactfean]

First off you're not at tdc, your at 5° atdc. Second, the exhaust cam dowell pin isn't even close to straight up (even if you were at tdc) cas is timed right, but motor isn't at tdc so technically isn't right.

[blkvrtswp]

OK good pics!

Crank pulley marks go left to right 5-0-5-10-15. TDC is with the pin aligned to 0, the second mark from the LEFT.

#1 Pull the CAS and realign the crank pulley to the zero mark
#2 As compactfean said, you need the crank pin on zero degrees AND the exhaust cam dowel pin to point straight up at the same time. That is top dead center.
#3 Reinstall CAS, looks like you have that correct with the dots
#4 Dry out your cylinders again - if still soaking it will not start

Good luck!

[redsx13]

So, I must have cranked the motor over maybe 5 or 6 times. The dowl pin never goes straight up, the closest I could get it is in the picture. It's either that or upside down (180* off).

I put the crank to the zero mark I but only had to turn the cas a tiny bit to make the dots line up again, still no start

[compactfean]

YOU'RE ENGINE TIMING IS OFF

[redsx13]

I AM 99.9% sure you are CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember the only thing I did, I had to push my car back a little bit. But I got about 2 feet before I noticed it was in 5th gear. This must have caused the motor to spin backwards and because the tensioner had no oil pressure the chain went loose and skipped teeth!!