Spring rates?

[91rs13]

I was wondering what some of the experienced AutoX'rs and track/race people are running on their cars?

If you can --list which chassis and if you know the weight of the car. I know another AutoX'r is running 500lbs front and 375 rear on and SR20 S13 chassis.

I need to get an idea where to go over the winter when I convert my Konis to Coilovers or go with another coilover set up.

DJ

[naed240sx]

Alot of people on here ride with simple spring/strut setups, many have coilovers. I think that 8/6 kg/mm rates are what most people find to be great for track/autox, or higher If the car is never going to be street driven. Alot of it is personal preferance. I have 8/6 kts coils on my car. Weight is around 2600. It is a very rough ride in downtown areas, but very streetable otherwise. Havent tracked the car yet, but it corners flat as hell, and I still have stock sways.

[91rs13]

I think that 8/6 kg/mm rates are what most people find to be great for track/autox, or higher If the car is never going to be street driven. .

I think the 8kg/mm converts to about 448 lbs, and the 6 to 336lbs--so I wanted to get some input from some folks before deciding which way to go over the winter.

Although I intended to drive the car on the road, it seems to like living on the trailer better (or I need to spend more time on it this winter....)

[Joe]

just to add my info, im running 10/8's but do not autocross the car. only HPDE and drift, not a street car (much. still take it out very rarley)

[Vettedrmr]

Just for comparison, what are the rates in KG/mm for stock springs? I looked at the suspension FAQ, and it said the stockers were 2, IIRC. If that's true, that's an enormous difference!

Thanks, and have a good one,Mike

[TrueSlide]

Currently Iam running D2 coilovers and I like them alot, not too stiff With autoX I believe you dont want a over aggressive setup at all, especially if you are a new/unexperienced driver. Aggressive setups dont give too much input and are quick to react and not that forgiving. Not to mention alot of autoX events are on bumpy parking lots and/or old airports with very bumpy courses.

[Red coupe]

Just for comparison, what are the rates in KG/mm for stock springs? I looked at the suspension FAQ, and it said the stockers were 2, IIRC. If that's true, that's an enormous difference!

Thanks, and have a good one,Mike

you got it man stock is 2....its a pretty big step up. I have 8/6 and its stiff, in fact on rough roads you can tell the tires loose grip some times from the bouncing. but overall they aren't too bad for the street, and are pretty nice on a smooth surface....

[Codeman05]

i run a 9/7 on my k-sports. it is extremely harsh and you need to adjust the shocks stiffer to prevent a lot of bounce so that makes it even worse. i drove on them daily for about a month but have since retired it to weekend/track duties. they are still streetable if you dont mind hitting your head on the roof every now and then.

[91rs13]

i run a 9/7 on my k-sports. it is extremely harsh and you need to adjust the shocks stiffer to prevent a lot of bounce so that makes it even worse.

-

This is one of the combos I am thinking about. How are they on the track?( road course?)

[ignigknot]

If you do coilovers what are you doing with your old springs?

[TrueSlide]

Putting in your couch makes it alittle more comfortable.

[Codeman05]

91rs13 they are good on the track for their price. the more expensive products that i have driven with on soem of my friends cars (zeal, buddy club, kei office) performed better but you have to pay twice as much for them so its a good balance. with some sways and new bushings they feel just right to me.

[91rs13]

If you do coilovers what are you doing with your old springs?

LOL--Hey Lew--I am going to sell them to you cheap!--Just think of me as test driving parts for AutoX for you.

Hey saw your note about LRP--Come down, I can keep you busy in the pits--or you can work pit out with Clark.

[91rs13]

91rs13 they are good on the track for their price. the more expensive products that i have driven with on soem of my friends cars (zeal, buddy club, kei office) performed better but you have to pay twice as much for them so its a good balance. with some sways and new bushings they feel just right to me.

That is part of the battle I am fighting. The upper level ones are $$, so I wondered if they were worth it? Or am I better off converting my Konis to coilovers and playing with spring rates. (already have the konis, coilover kit, camber plates and extra springs--I am still less than most coilovers.

At this point I think I can do just as well converting the Konis, playing with a bunch of spring rates and then once I narrow it down, get the konis revalved. (longer term project)

DJ

[ignigknot]

lol DJ you are my hero you know that. Yeah ill do whatever I can at LRP since i cant drive.

[Codeman05]

DJ if you already have all that then i would just keep them and try out some different spring rates. it would be cheaper in the long run and still perform at about the same level.

[nismofly]

have you looked at kts coilovers? quality and performance of the higer priced units, for much lower price

[91rs13]

have you looked at kts coilovers? quality and performance of the higer priced units, for much lower price

I have considered them--they seem to have good feedback. But I do think I am going to get the coilover kit and camber plates and convert my Konis--It seems like I would have more flexibility with spring rates---where as most of the coilovers seem to be in the 8/6 or 9/7 range--without many other spring options.

[nismofly]

what else could you want? anything more than that isnt worth it

7/5 or 8/6 are your best bet

[naed240sx]

Well the good thing about coilovers, is that you can preload the springs. This will make your car ride much stiffer and corner flatter. if your car is street driven, do not go over 8/6. Any more than that is seriously overkill. You could always buy 2 more springs if you wanted some higher rates. I am sure that there are quite a few coilover companies that have springs compatible with those of kts. You could pick up some 10kg/mm ones, and have a 10/8 setup.

[nismofly]

its not just "if you drive on the street" its if you drive on street tires, more than 8/6 is overkill for the tires no matter where youre driving

actually Smith_SR thinks 7/5 should be max, that even 8/6 is pushing it

[naed240sx]

I dunno, depends on where you want to drive fast. I have to drive really slow over really bad, chunky roads , and my car probably corners slower through bumpy turns than one with a spring/strut setup, but on the highway, smooth country roads, or anywhere else where the roads are not **** poor, my 8/6 setup is great, and very confidence inspiring.

[nismofly]

im not saying the coilovers there, or where youre driving...

what i believe Smith was saying, and what i agree with, is that you cant use the coilovers to their full potential, street tires lose grip before you reach the limit of the coilover....therefore you need a racecar with slicks to really see what the full potential of the coilovers are

[naed240sx]

Forgive me, but still do not see the truth in that. Take for example, The sport compact car s13. It has 8/6 jic coilovers and falken azenis tires, and pulls over a g on the skidpad. Do you really expect me to believe that the car would pull a greater number of g's if it utilized softer spring rates? I think many people's claims that 8/6 setups are overkill are based on pure opinon and hypothesis. Many people have cars running these setups that are performing extremely well, and have actuall #'s to back it all up.

[nismofly]

how i interpret the theory is that tires have a certain potential, the most amount of grip they can possibly eek out, and that right around a 7/5 or 8/6 allows the tire to be used up, right at that peak for a street tire

im not saying that 8/6 is overkill, im saying that you arent using it up, theres more potential in that setup...with like a 7/5 you would pretty much use up the full potential of the coilover, thats why Smith was saying 7/5 or maybe 8/6 would be the most for a street driven S chassis, because going higher than that you wont see better handling numbers, but maybe even worse ones

SCC's car, with hoosiers, might pull a little better because they have more grip available to use up the setup

if you want talk to Smith about it, its his argument and hes the suspension person, i dont know enough to explain his theory but if i understand it correctly i think i see where hes coming from

either he or Chet or Alan can also correct my thinking if ive interpreted the idea wrong

[91rs13]

what else could you want? anything more than that isnt worth it

7/5 or 8/6 are your best bet

I feel spring rates should be based off the weight of the car, and how you will drive it. The car is autocrossed and used for track days. Originally I intended to drive it on the street, and to events. However I decided to keep my trailer and tow it to events. I will drive it on the streets, but am not concerned about how rough the ride is--as it is not a daily driver. On the AutoX course runs on V710s and Toyo RA1s for track days.

By going the Konis and converting them--one I already have them--and then I can play with the Spring rates in 25 lb increments--which gives a little flexibility in fine tuning the car for handling. ( and later once I have found which springs work the best--I will have the Konis revalved--and an external adjustment put in for the back)

Your discussion about the varied spring rates, and what is right and wrong is good. There is no right or wrong--it really matters how you use the car. If I had to run the car on the street--I think 8/6 might be at the top end of where you want to be. In the northeast--or other "bumpy road" areas, that might be too much--if in SoCal--maybe you could run higher rates.

My 02 worth.

[veilside180sx]

Forgive me, but still do not see the truth in that. Take for example, The sport compact car s13. It has 8/6 jic coilovers and falken azenis tires, and pulls over a g on the skidpad. Do you really expect me to believe that the car would pull a greater number of g's if it utilized softer spring rates? I think many people's claims that 8/6 setups are overkill are based on pure opinon and hypothesis. Many people have cars running these setups that are performing extremely well, and have actuall #'s to back it all up.

Just to keep facts straight, the Project Silvia your'e referring to is Coleman's car. He's running 6F/5R for springs because they couldn't get the skidpad numbers out of the 8/6 combo. They thought it was too stiff as well. They couldn't pull 1g until the switch....

[veilside180sx]

Most coilovers use a 2.5" id. I don't see why just purchasing off the shelf Eibach 2.5" ID coilover replacement springs isn't a possibility. That leaves open a whole lot of options for spring rates. Although I wouldn't go too far off the stock rates for the coilovers merely because it will skew your dampening characteristics.

[turtl631]

Just to keep facts straight, the Project Silvia your'e referring to is Coleman's car. He's running 6F/5R for springs because they couldn't get the skidpad numbers out of the 8/6 combo. They thought it was too stiff as well. They couldn't pull 1g until the switch....

Owned...yea. Seriously though, without r comps, stiffer springs just cause problems. Our cars do not need 10/8 or even 6/8 rates on any street tire, no matter where you drive. The weight transfer is too fast, the car is too sensitive to any imperfections in the track, and you end up with a skittery car. The tires wash out way before the springs come close to compressing completely. Its just nota good system.

[sleepyRPS13]

its time for that segment again!

touge monster challenges you!! aka amuse s2000 260ps (2513lbs) /F12kg R14kg advan A048 255 all around.

MAXMAXMAX