I am currently running Eibach Pro's in a 89 240sx, and am thinking of going back to stiffer spring rates with RS*R Race Springs.
My reason for this, is when I purchased my car used, it came with a no name brand coil-overs in the front, and yes it was stiff, but the steering response was very quick. When I changed my suspension to Eibach Pro's and Koni Yellows, I had a smoother ride, but my steering response dropped dramatically.
What I want to know is that if I choose to the RS*R Race springs route, will I get better steering response back with them? As a side question, does anyone know how much more installing RS*R Race Springs will lower my car?
Spring Rates & Steering Response
Re: Spring Rates & Steering Response (Lt.Mike)
The RS*R's Race Springs are 1.4" drop front, 1.0" drop rear. It will be a little less than the Pro's.
Re: (Lt.Mike)
you need to find out the spring rates for the two you are trying to compare. the stiffer spring will allow for a "quickened" steering response you seek. reason being with the stiffer spring the weight transfer is quicker and the car takes a "set" and feels like it turns faster.
so if the RS*R Race Springs have a higher rate than the others, then yes you more than likely get that feeling back.
so if the RS*R Race Springs have a higher rate than the others, then yes you more than likely get that feeling back.
the RS*R are 5.0 kg/mm (f) , 4.5 kg/mm (r), whereas the eibachs are only ~1.9 (f) and ~2.45 (r)
so the RS*R will definately be much stiffer
zerothread?id=11638
so the RS*R will definately be much stiffer
zerothread?id=11638
Re: (Meantime)
This is what the drop looks like with the RSR/AGX combo:
Things look more like this now (with coilovers):
Compared to sporlines, the RSR combo's turn in is really quick. I liked it. I think that's about as good as you'll do for a spring shock combo for that price.
Things look more like this now (with coilovers):
Compared to sporlines, the RSR combo's turn in is really quick. I liked it. I think that's about as good as you'll do for a spring shock combo for that price.
Wow, thanks for the pics, now I know what to expect.
I have another side question though. With my pro-kits my rear camber is -2 degrees on both side, but the tow is good. Yes I brought it to an alignment shop and they can't bring it to factory spec. If I do plan on swapping into the RSR's my negative camber will get worse right?
By the way I read that I can install RUCA's to fix this, but I read there will be a tow-in problem. If this is so, how do I fix that?
I have another side question though. With my pro-kits my rear camber is -2 degrees on both side, but the tow is good. Yes I brought it to an alignment shop and they can't bring it to factory spec. If I do plan on swapping into the RSR's my negative camber will get worse right?
By the way I read that I can install RUCA's to fix this, but I read there will be a tow-in problem. If this is so, how do I fix that?
Yes and no, the rear camber on mine is -1.98 RR and -2.68 RL (but the RL side has a bent HICAS toe arm which throws the camber adj out too), each car is different.
Neg. camber isn't something that worries me a whole lot, just get regular tire rotations and it'll be fine.
RUCA's shouldn't cause a toe-in problem at all if they are properly installed, where did you read this?
Neg. camber isn't something that worries me a whole lot, just get regular tire rotations and it'll be fine.
RUCA's shouldn't cause a toe-in problem at all if they are properly installed, where did you read this?
the springs themselves do not control the speed of the weight transfer, this is done with the damper. by changing to a stiffer spring without increasing dampening power, it will make the weight transfer quicker and give you a quicker response. this is not your only option. maybe a set of roll bars are what you are looking for, since it sounds like you are not concerned with having stiff springs. if you are interested in generally improving the feel of your front end, you could also look into bushings and maybe control arms. these will make the front end more solid and react to your input with greater precision.
the rsr's spring rates are probably too much for an entry level damper, they would wear them out at a faster rate, and matching a good damper to a spring is essential in the overall setup of the car. if you do want the stiffer spring, i recommend a new set of dampers as well. the stiffer springs would reduce body roll (which would satisfy the urge to buy roll bars for a little), and also not give as much when hitting bumps, protecting your lowered car.
a spring too stiff for its damper or worn dampers were probably the reason your car had such a quick response to begin with. you put on a well matched spring and damper pair so the response would seem to drop. i am suggesting all of this without knowing what you consider to be a quick steering response, but it is worth noting that you can easily make it too quick. weight transfer needs to happen smoothly, not with lightning speed. you may be judging the cars response at cruising speeds, which does not give a good representation of its true characteristics.
and if you are familiar with oversteer/understeer and the result of toe and castor change, these will also have an affect on steering response.
Modified by Ceptos at 2:11 AM 4/13/2005
the rsr's spring rates are probably too much for an entry level damper, they would wear them out at a faster rate, and matching a good damper to a spring is essential in the overall setup of the car. if you do want the stiffer spring, i recommend a new set of dampers as well. the stiffer springs would reduce body roll (which would satisfy the urge to buy roll bars for a little), and also not give as much when hitting bumps, protecting your lowered car.
a spring too stiff for its damper or worn dampers were probably the reason your car had such a quick response to begin with. you put on a well matched spring and damper pair so the response would seem to drop. i am suggesting all of this without knowing what you consider to be a quick steering response, but it is worth noting that you can easily make it too quick. weight transfer needs to happen smoothly, not with lightning speed. you may be judging the cars response at cruising speeds, which does not give a good representation of its true characteristics.
and if you are familiar with oversteer/understeer and the result of toe and castor change, these will also have an affect on steering response.
Modified by Ceptos at 2:11 AM 4/13/2005
Thanks Ceptos for that explanation. I understand the whole oversteer/understeer concept very well, but I totally forgot that w/out a dampener that suits the springs, the response will be fast, but twitchy weight transfer.
I forgot about this because when I first got my car, the stock dampeners were all worn out, one or two even blown, but since I never had driven a stock 240 w/ proper functional dampeners, I never knew what the true stock feeling really is.
Thank you for informing me and to all of those that will search this topic for future use. I I am probably going to purchase ST sways or Whiteline Sways now that I think of it. Now I have another problem, but I can fix that w/ a couple hundred dollars and that is I need to replace my guides. A noise from my engine came about not too long ago so that is my #1 priority till I do any suspension mods. I like my 24 mpg KA24E : )
I forgot about this because when I first got my car, the stock dampeners were all worn out, one or two even blown, but since I never had driven a stock 240 w/ proper functional dampeners, I never knew what the true stock feeling really is.
Thank you for informing me and to all of those that will search this topic for future use. I I am probably going to purchase ST sways or Whiteline Sways now that I think of it. Now I have another problem, but I can fix that w/ a couple hundred dollars and that is I need to replace my guides. A noise from my engine came about not too long ago so that is my #1 priority till I do any suspension mods. I like my 24 mpg KA24E : )
no problem, thats good to hear, i think you will be very satisfied with the roll bars. i personally have my eyes on the whitelines, just because of what you get for the money, and the adjustment will allow you to tune oversteer/understeer once you are familiar with the car. roll bars take a lot of cornering stress off of the springs and in turn make the whole suspension work more efficiently. they are a good next step. and it sounds simple, but a decent set of new tires and an alignment can make a big difference.
Already ahead of you half a year ago for tires. Since it is very rainy here in Hawaii, and I have already spun out in the rain due to my crappy Nitto NT450's I upgraded to Potenza RE950's. Great wet and dry traction capabilities, and also I do not have to worry as much anymore about spinning out unless I get careless or intentionally want to do it.
Roads here in the Big Island of Hawaii are pretty decent. Not insanely big potholes, not perfect, just in the middle. Afternoon drives are good for scenic views, but for twisties there is only one good place to go.
It is the road that cuts across the island to get to the other side. Pretty fun to open up your gears and test your suspension however the roads go up and down pretty fast so if one gets too careless, you can literally fly off the road into the ditches.
By the way, progressive springs are pretty crappy for this constant change of direction which I resulted in a 60mph 540 degree spin. I ended up in the middle of the road smoke everywhere, but no damage to car. That was the fastest I have ever turned lock to lock to keep my car from going into the ditches though. Yes, I was foolish, but there was no one on the roads in a one mile radius so I decided to see what my car can handle.
It is the road that cuts across the island to get to the other side. Pretty fun to open up your gears and test your suspension however the roads go up and down pretty fast so if one gets too careless, you can literally fly off the road into the ditches.
By the way, progressive springs are pretty crappy for this constant change of direction which I resulted in a 60mph 540 degree spin. I ended up in the middle of the road smoke everywhere, but no damage to car. That was the fastest I have ever turned lock to lock to keep my car from going into the ditches though. Yes, I was foolish, but there was no one on the roads in a one mile radius so I decided to see what my car can handle.
-
GhostRider240sx
- Posts: 260
- Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:16 pm
- Car: 2008 G35x Sedan
Journey
StocK
Re: (Lt.Mike)
What are you guys doing for camber correction on these?, cuz everytime i get mines done ( stock) they always say my camber is off.
Re: (GhostRider240sx)
1) Get an aftermarket Rear Upper Control Arm (if camber issue in rear).GhostRider240sx wrote:What are you guys doing for camber correction on these?, cuz everytime i get mines done ( stock) they always say my camber is off.
2) Some type of modification (look @ 240sx.org) to fix it.
My tire wear is not horrible with my -2 camber in rear, just needs rotations. I would rather spend the money on Anti-Sway Bars.
Hope that helps.