Increase front and rear rate - Ride harshness increases; tires may not follow bumps causing reduced traction. Roll resistance increases.
isnt this what happens with basically every aftermarket suspension setup? and if so, why would people want to recrease traction?? im going to buy a suspension setup but i am trying to figure everything out first, this just confused the crap out of me.
spring rate increase - whaaaa??
if the shocks are too harsh for the road surface, they wont let the springs travel enough to absorb the hit from a bump, the weight will decrease on the tire since the car is absorbing the shock, it may come off the ground a little, but the handling will decrease and it will skid across bumps. the spring absorbs the shock from the bump, the shock determines how fast and far the spring will travel.
Ceptos, you are half correct. The shock-absorbing characteristics work to dampen the jolting action of road surfaces forcing the tire/suspension up, then gravity/spring rate forcing the back down. The spring will travel any length within it's design range and the range allowed by other suspension geometries...the "shock absorber" has no effect on spring travel(unless we are speaking in generalizations about jumping a ford bronco, full suspension extension, 3.5" lift springs extend past the operating point of the shocks and rip the shock piston out of shock housing, causing a very amazing and scary landing with no damping of the springs), other than to control the speed(and hence, the force) at which the spring functions.
The shock absorber <responds> to the action of the spring. Damping it's "springing" motion, not it's "range" of motion.
The shock absorber <responds> to the action of the spring. Damping it's "springing" motion, not it's "range" of motion.
ok, i dont doubt you, but im definitly a little confused now =) im reading something that says 'shock travel: the total distance the shock moves in and out. the more travel, the better the shock can do its job.' i know depending on how the shock is valved will depend on how fast weight in transferred to and from a tire during a bump or turn, the shock has to have some affect on spring travel, right? if you lower your car with springs and do not change the shocks, then this will reduce or even elliminate compression travel, so worse handling.
so a shock only affects the extreme travel of a spring? its maximun extension and compression, and not its travel accross a bump that will not reach these extremes? lemme know if im reading you correctly, thanks
so a shock only affects the extreme travel of a spring? its maximun extension and compression, and not its travel accross a bump that will not reach these extremes? lemme know if im reading you correctly, thanks
If you lower you car too far, you often find that the car is riding on the bumpstops...giving you ZERO compression/rebound damping.....aka no shock travel....except for the part where the shock piston travels through the bottom of the shock body.
In a perfect world, a shock would have no effect on the spring's range of motion. The shock would only effect the speed that the spring bounces....not how far it bounces. You see, the mechanism wasn't made as a "catch" to stop spring travel at a certain point of extension. If a car is way too low, you can blow out a shock in about a block, maybe two. If a car's suspension allows for overextension of a shock, (just about implausible with a strut assembly), again the shock would not be able to stop the spring from continuing in it's range of motion.
In a perfect world, a shock would have no effect on the spring's range of motion. The shock would only effect the speed that the spring bounces....not how far it bounces. You see, the mechanism wasn't made as a "catch" to stop spring travel at a certain point of extension. If a car is way too low, you can blow out a shock in about a block, maybe two. If a car's suspension allows for overextension of a shock, (just about implausible with a strut assembly), again the shock would not be able to stop the spring from continuing in it's range of motion.
Ceptos wrote: i know depending on how the shock is valved will depend on how fast weight in transferred to and from a tire during a bump or turn, the shock has to have some affect on spring travel, right?
so a shock only affects the extreme travel of a spring? its maximun extension and compression, and not its travel accross a bump that will not reach these extremes? lemme know if im reading you correctly, thanks
OK, just in case i missed it earlier, or forgot or something... the shock does have an effect on spring travel. It acts as a damper to the springing motion of the spring. If you need a good lesson in how shocks work, go find an old solid-axle 4x4 with coil springs in the front(Ford), take the front shocks off of it, and try and drive it down an empty alley or vacant back road. SCARY FUN.
Second, no, some shocks work on what is called variable valve technology, altering the amount of damping force the harder/faster force is applied to it. The extreme travel of a spring is usually kept in check with "limiting-straps" or similar device.(FYI)
The shock works as the spring is compressed/extended. It works to slow down the springing action of the spring. In some 4x4 applications, some shocks can limit the amount of travel that a leaf spring configuration can flex....
Hmm, interesting question. Generally, there is no ill effect of a strictly stiff spring(not addressing length of spring, or ultra-short springs causing bottoming out of shock) on a shock absorber that is performing like new. One could argue that the action of a stiffer and shorter spring is much faster and causes a sharper jolt to the shock as it dampens the action of the spring..... causing the fluid within the shock housing to heat faster, or overheat, or causing the piston to score the shock internals, thereby causing early shock absorber failure. You might be hard-pressed to find data to support that idea.
The main thing we need to remember is to mate a proper length spring to a shock with a range of motion(length of shock travel) that works with your spring. Nowdays, that isn't too hard, as many companies offer springs/shocks or one-piece coilovers which take the guesswork out of it.
If you upgrade your springs, you most definitely should upgrade your shocks/struts. The OEM struts are probably beat down as it is, and will not be able to dampen the sharp bouncing of a shorter, much stiffer spring.
So, chmercer, imagine that when you install stiffer springs, you are now asking your OEM strut to work harder to slow down the action of the spring, and also forcing it to do that work in less time, because of the shortened distance from stationary ride height of OEM springs to compressed height of shorter springs. There is more(and harder) work to do, in less time to do it. This, combined with already half-dead OEM units, are some of the reasons OEM shocks tend to fail.
Still, the main problem I see is the 2-2.5" or lower drop that ruins all ride characteristics, causes the car to ride on the bumpstops...effectively removing the shock absorber from the suspension equation, and blows out nearly every strut ever designed.
A couple of suspension basics links:billzilla's susp.
Vincent C's suspension basics
More of Vincent C's suspension
The main thing we need to remember is to mate a proper length spring to a shock with a range of motion(length of shock travel) that works with your spring. Nowdays, that isn't too hard, as many companies offer springs/shocks or one-piece coilovers which take the guesswork out of it.
If you upgrade your springs, you most definitely should upgrade your shocks/struts. The OEM struts are probably beat down as it is, and will not be able to dampen the sharp bouncing of a shorter, much stiffer spring.
So, chmercer, imagine that when you install stiffer springs, you are now asking your OEM strut to work harder to slow down the action of the spring, and also forcing it to do that work in less time, because of the shortened distance from stationary ride height of OEM springs to compressed height of shorter springs. There is more(and harder) work to do, in less time to do it. This, combined with already half-dead OEM units, are some of the reasons OEM shocks tend to fail.
Still, the main problem I see is the 2-2.5" or lower drop that ruins all ride characteristics, causes the car to ride on the bumpstops...effectively removing the shock absorber from the suspension equation, and blows out nearly every strut ever designed.
A couple of suspension basics links:billzilla's susp.
Vincent C's suspension basics
More of Vincent C's suspension