Spongy Brake problems. Help.

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p00t
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:42 pm

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Problem:

One day the pedal travel became wierd. This was completely out of the blue while stopping at a light and has been the same since (about 3 weeks ago). 1/4 of the top pedal travel is spongy and really does nothing, then it slowly ramps up to normal pressure by 1/2 pedal travel. By normal pressure I mean how the brakes used to feel and work at almost top pedal travel.

I can brake just fine but the pedal is noticably softer and i can forcefully push the pedal all the way to the floor (could never push past 1/2 way before). Braking is still strong however as I can still lock up the fronts intentionally.

I have semi metallic pads so for 1/4 of the days braking I am pushing a bit harder then normal when they are cold. But I dont know if that contributed to the problem.

Brakes have always felt randomly different, sometimes the brake is slightly stiffer than other times. Its been very subtle, other 240 drivers might not even notice it, and i presume its just the brake booster getting a little less/more vaccum at times.

I can hear sometimes a low toned clunk from the front left wheel area under moderate braking. I cannot feel a pulse or anything in the pedal when it happens. I am not sure if its my strut or brake. If it was my brake the only think i could imagine it being was the pad coming off the rotor surface and clunking back down when pressure was applied (big guess).

What Ive done:

Rebled the entire system (good bye motul racing fluid :( ).didnt seem to be any air. Procedure was carried out properly. Didnt help at all.

Pumping the brakes when stopping seems to stiffen it slightly and randomly but it goes back to its its old self right away.

If the brakes are warm or cold the only thing that changes is how good they grab, pedal feel and pressure doesnt change.

With the engine off and pumping the brake it takes about 3 pumps to get to max pressure. But instead of the pedal being super stiff and barely moving it has 1/8 to 1/6 spongy travel at the top.

Im at a loss here because all these signs seem to point at a bad master cylinder. I would think a wearing master cylinder however would be a slow gradual process and my car only has 105k miles.... kinda early for a failing master cylinder.... rather hear your input before i go tearing it apart (something in the back of my mind tells me its fine).

Need help!


NISTECH
Posts: 10585
Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:17 am

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If you have rear drum brakes try adjusting them up first.From the sounds of it you do have air in the system. but if your sure you got them blead out. I would have to say your master is bypassing fluid internally [ this is assuming you have checked for any fluid leaks in the system] you cant really judge spongieness when at a complete stop as the booster can cause the illusion of being spongy. it better check for a spongy pedal with the car off and all boost exhuasted. this will give you a true feel of the hydrolic system.

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p00t
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:42 pm

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its a 93 240sx so i have disc brakes on all four corners.

In the FSM it says to perform brake booster air tight check:

* start car and let it it idle for 2 minutes, then shut car off.

* press the pedal down, as you repeat the pedal should travel less and less.

* after third or fourth try the pedal should be firm with no travel.

It seems that I fail this test as there is an 1.25" or so of spongy pedal travel at the top. If the problem is my brake booster system what are the chances of it being the the Check Valve? What are the typical symptoms/causes of a failing brake booster system? Any foolproof ways of testing it?

Thanks!

IvoryJ30t
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:36 pm
Car: 95 Maxima GLE, 95 Maxima GXE

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if your not leaking fluid, my culprits would be-1] master cylinder2] booster

its sounds more like a master cylinder problem due to the increased pedal travel and the spongey feel.

if your booster was failing, it would be harder to stop the car than it was before. unless the effort required to stop is increasing, i do not suspect the booster.

NISTECH
Posts: 10585
Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:17 am

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:Werd


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