Speaker replacement 4ohm ok?

[jjcuff1]

I want to replace my doors and swap a sub out. I went to a shop that says he worked on these cars often. I asked about the 2 ohm and efficeny issue and he said

1: 2ohm vs 4ohm will not matter at 2ohm the cheaper speakers will rqure less power but draw more current so they might sound louder but are cheap and will have more distortion. The 4ohms will work and be cleaner. but I assume will have less overall volume (i only listen most at 50% volume now anyway so maybe have to go to 75%)

2: The efficeny between 93 speaker and 88 is not gonna matter that much in general quality or sound/

3: He sell Arc Audio. He is pushing his Arc Audio Kar series compenents 4ohm 86db for $200 installed and $100 installed in back. He said will be fine on stock bose ( i have 8 speaker system)

4: Then he is quoting $500 installed swapping a 10" kar sub (looks big) but has only 5" mount depth. He will build custom box and hid under rear deck and use jbl amp instead of arc amp to save money.

He is correct with 4ohm and efficeny? Is 500 for that sub setup seem worth it? I figure if I go cheap and order off amazon it would cost me $100 for good speaker $150 for good amp or $90 for cheapie and then cables and line out plus still have to get custom box mad I am in for $300-$400 and not installed yet so prices all around seemed good

[jjcuff1]

Is Arc Audio KAR speakers decent? Work well on bose amp? any comments or suggestions otherwise. I see a lot of polk or infinity installs but easier/cheaper/ to go with installers options then bring your own (warranty etc)

[EniGmA1987]

Is Arc Audio KAR speakers decent?

Ive never heard of them, so Id say no they are not decent. You hear certain names because they are good speakers. The nobody brands tend to be that way for a reason.



Also, that shop is retarded and you should not get work done there. He doesnt know the difference between speakers (from his ohm and efficiency statements), sells what is probably crap, and lied about working on these cars often. Thats impossible to do since there are not many of these cars on the road and of those cars out there not a ton go get audio replacements done.

from 93db to 88db efficiency is more than a 2x power consumption increase. Used with our low power amps, thats bad. And then to go from 2ohm nominal to 4ohm? That again gets you less power able to be pulled. This is a great way to break your amp and spend thousands on a replacement of the whole unit.

[jjcuff1]

Yeah I figured as much. Well Arc Audio supposedly makes killer amps. they have high SQ I googled it. So I figure the other stuff was similar. Yeah I will bail and shop around so for SURE if I keep stock amp I should definitely have 92+DB speakers and 2ohm

BUT what if I get bored with stock bose amp and want to upgrade to simple 4channel for speakers and I have 2 ohm speakers arent 4ch-2 ohm stable amps more money? What if I go with 4ohm 93db speaker and granted have less power or just crank up more for now?

Then what about sub? I was thinking an enclosure not needed too much? can I just swap in a 10" and get line outs and go to an amp off the existing sub connector? I hear the bose also doesn't something with the sub signal that might require a separate EQ processor as well as part of the Line Out conversion?

[EniGmA1987]

Yeah I figured as much. Well Arc Audio supposedly makes killer amps. they have high SQ I googled it. So I figure the other stuff was similar. Yeah I will bail and shop around so for SURE if I keep stock amp I should definitely have 92+DB speakers and 2ohm

BUT what if I get bored with stock bose amp and want to upgrade to simple 4channel for speakers and I have 2 ohm speakers arent 4ch-2 ohm stable amps more money? What if I go with 4ohm 93db speaker and granted have less power or just crank up more for now?

Then what about sub? I was thinking an enclosure not needed too much? can I just swap in a 10" and get line outs and go to an amp off the existing sub connector? I hear the bose also doesn't something with the sub signal that might require a separate EQ processor as well as part of the Line Out conversion?

You can use 4ohm 93db speakers. Especially if you have a separate amp. The stock amp can only push out about 13 watts per channel I think it was (I did the math a long time ago) so it is an issue if you use the stock amp and get less efficient replacement speakers.

You have to use a low profile replacement sub if you dont want to put in an enclosure and use the stock mounting area instead. No low profile subs sound great, its a characteristic of their movement limitations being low profile. So its up to you what sounds good enough and how you want to do it. If you take from the cables going to the stock sub, you will want a Re-Q (I think thats what it was) to help boost the signal as you go higher in volume to compensate for the imaginary drop in volume people say is there. Very few people care what the actual reason is and what happens so I wont bore you with logic and the physics of how things actually work in the world. But the Re-Q is the best way to do things easily.

[jjcuff1]

Yeah the guy at the shop told me he could make an enclosure, and drop in a fairly standard subwoofer

http://www.arcaudio.com/productdescript ... s/ks10.asp

It looks pretty good? he said he would provide a
http://www.jbl.com/EN-EU/Products/Pages ... GT5-A3001E
JBL amp, the speaker, custom enclosure that mounts in the rear deck and shallow and wide box that sits under rear deck and probably protrudes about 2-3 into trunk space, plus install the thing for $500 that didnt seem too bad for that part alone

Then $300 for the 4 speakers, I might ask him to see if he has better alternatives 4ohm/93db or something even for a little more (because the price still seems cheap for 4 speakers with components installed) and have him drop those in then I am ready for a 4 channel amp maybe at later date

[axefire]

If you're pushing 4 ohms to a 2ohm speaker, you run the risk of blowing your power amp!

The distortion is prolly cause the speakers suck, not impedance mismatch... The speakers will by nature resist a higher impedance causing your power amp to over heat and ultimately blow...

Always match the speaker impedance (ohms) to the power amp output...regardless of what anyone says...

http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm

[jjcuff1]

Well I am confused by what you said "Pushing a 4ohms to a 2 ohm speaker") The impedance is not pushed it is the mechanical function of the speaker design itself not the amp pushing it. But I do understand that an amp must be capable of running at 2 ohms. The lower the resistance the higher the current load the speaker will pull and therefore overheat the amp if it is not capable of being '2 Ohm stable"

Now with the Bose it is a 2 ohm amp, good, but concern was putting in a 4ohm speaker would not hurt the amp at all it will actually draw less current which is good BUT it will also half the power output so maybe only 8 vs 16 watts On top of that if you have an inefficient speaker say under 92db you are already have to crank speaker up just to get the volume output and then you will start clipping.

So I went ahead and ordered infinity 60.9CS kappa components for the fronts at 95DB and 2 ohms and the na 6032SI shallow mounts for the rears at 93db and 2 ohms

I will run the stock amp for now and then have shop install line out and arc audio amp and 10" sub with custom enclosure in rear deck

[EniGmA1987]

Sounds like a good setup. And you seem to know a lot about how audio works

[jjcuff1]

Update:

Well Here is what I just installed
Infinity Kappa 60.9CS 2 ohm components up front
Shallow mount 6.5" infinity reference in the back doors
Pioneer 10" 2ohm shallow mount 1200w subwoofer in the rear deck
Alpine MRP-500 mono amp 800W in the rear to drive the sub

The kappa made a world of difference no more muddy sound but it is obvious the soundstage/EQ from the bose is jacked up or not good with the upgraded speakers I feel they crossed over the stock speakers high like 200hz since they were so small now I have tones of highs and treble and bass went away. Like missing all midrange punch

No longer even heard the rear deck stock sub. Volume levels had be cranked up to 7-10 range to hear any any loud volume and anything in the 2-5 range almost was too low, sounded lik ea clock radio no depth at all so either loud or nothing.

then I threw in the sub. Definitely added some punch back. The shallow sub is very boomy. now I can crank up to 10 and still no distortion on the kappa and rock/classic/jazz are crystal clear with good mid and boomy bass, fast bass is not too bad but not much punch, rap bass distorts. I still need to tune the amp but the sub made a huge difference and brought the stereo back to a complete setup.

with my ipod plugged in (i added an isimple) the volume level is VERY low I have to listen to teh stereo at 10 just to be mid sound range and there is no bass in any rap or pop songs or very little. All sounds clean and undistorted but no pop.

Overall I say the stock bose amp is thinking way to much and the EQ levels, phasing and cut offs are all whack and the car is missing any complete sound stage presence. The speakers are great and have tons of room to grow.

I am thinking:
I need a sound processor,
power the front components on 4channel 1 for each tweeter and sub. the phase is so off for these that you either have all treble or bass/muddy no in between if you keep them passive (together)
Amp for the fronts

tune all the cutoffs and time phase for the car

The rear deck sub is great upgrade over stock but I am debating, do I just keep as is and tune? DO I add a small enclosure undermonted in the deck? Or just pull the sub out and put in small box in trunk. I definitely like more tighter bass and less boom

The guy recommended a JBL MS-* any comments? Clean sweep better? are there PLEASE something cheaper to work on with these cars LOL everything 2ohm and shallow mount seems more for less it seems to fit in these things with BOSE LOL (trying to keep stock look and not have sub box

[Twizz]

I recently wanted some more "thump" for myself. So I purchased an RE Audio sub (600watt RMS 4ohms wired down to 2) and an RE Audio 1500 watt (700@ 2ohms) amp. I chose a sealed box because of the trunk size that I didn't want to lose. As well as the SQ that the sealed box would provide. A ported box would take up more space in the trunk and I would rather not. I am new to this as it is my first sub I have ever had installed. I must say, this thing hits !!!!! At first I had it less than 1/2 way up on the amp and I could feel it. Now, I have turned it up a bit more and this thing is AMAZING. The whole thing wasn't cheap, but I am definitely happy with the end result. When I play reggae now, I can hear the intense bass-line that I am looking for.

[axefire]

Well I am confused by what you said "Pushing a 4ohms to a 2 ohm speaker") The impedance is not pushed it is the mechanical function of the speaker design itself not the amp pushing it. But I do understand that an amp must be capable of running at 2 ohms. The lower the resistance the higher the current load the speaker will pull and therefore overheat the amp if it is not capable of being '2 Ohm stable"

Now with the Bose it is a 2 ohm amp, good, but concern was putting in a 4ohm speaker would not hurt the amp at all it will actually draw less current which is good BUT it will also half the power output so maybe only 8 vs 16 watts On top of that if you have an inefficient speaker say under 92db you are already have to crank speaker up just to get the volume output and then you will start clipping.

So I went ahead and ordered infinity 60.9CS kappa components for the fronts at 95DB and 2 ohms and the na 6032SI shallow mounts for the rears at 93db and 2 ohms

I will run the stock amp for now and then have shop install line out and arc audio amp and 10" sub with custom enclosure in rear deck

Ah pushing, pulling, 210, 220, whatever it takes you know what I meant obviously. This aint a pen15 measuring contest, I just wanted to make the clear point - MATCH AMP OHMS TO SPEAKER OHMS. And while I'm not an electrical engineer, I've done extensive work with audio, namely guitars and amps and have experience in wrecking really nice amps by not matching the the speaker OHMS.

[jjcuff1]

Well I am matched all 2ohm high efficeny speakers so not killing the stock amp
and the sub is now on its own amp just eq is all jacked up, as I turn things up bass goes away or at least crossovers are so high to protect the stock thin speakers that everything sounds so weak like a clock radio with an amp in your car

[axefire]

gotchya dude. not sure where to go for you - Some day I may want to upgrade my stereo - totally stock now and honestly it's good enough for me right now but...

You have a much better handle on these car stereos than I ever will so good luck and keep us informed pls-

[mgarzaiii]

Well I am confused by what you said "Pushing a 4ohms to a 2 ohm speaker")...So I went ahead and ordered infinity 60.9CS kappa components for the fronts at 95DB and 2 ohms and the na 6032SI shallow mounts for the rears at 93db and 2 ohms...

I will run the stock amp for now and then have shop install line out and arc audio amp and 10" sub with custom enclosure in rear deck

I got this same recommendation from CRUTCHFIELD, verified 2ohm at infinity's website. but found that the front speaker interfered with the window when rolled down; how did you resolve this?

[mgarzaiii]

Update:

Well Here is what I just installed
Infinity Kappa 60.9CS 2 ohm components up front
Shallow mount 6.5" infinity reference in the back doors...

jjcuff1, hanging on for an answer on how you got the 60.9CS to fit in the front doors. i find that the deeper dimension / bigger magent hits the window when in the fullly down position. how did you stack up the adapters?

[jjcuff1]

Well I did not install a shop did but I did look at the door and it appeared they fit. He did mention he used a spacer for the speaker mounts to stand them off a little. The crossover was hung into the lower right hand side gap and cabled ties to the harness that is it, little flimsy

The tweeters are the worst for mounting. The brackets do not fit the tweeter is too deep. So it is just stuck in place with a little bit of black silicon and sits in the opening of the stock tweeter but nothing really holds it in place except the tightness of the wire and when you snap the cover back over it presses against the tweeter. BUT the passenger side will NOT STOP buzzing. very annoying I removed and reglued but really do not see any options on mounting these things solids. there is no room to make or add a bracket and the tweeter itself has no holes on it except a screw at the back side of it. If you try to use that you will have the tweeter sticking through the cover of the door.

My solution is take it back to a better shop and install different and smaller tweeters that offer a bracket that can be mounted into the stock plastic trim

[mgarzaiii]

great, thanks for the confirmation. i'll have to cobble up something.

[jjcuff1]

He said he used a standard spacer and the spacer kit that came with the speakers to stack them up. Thats it the rest was plug and play and some cable ties including the tweeters. A little RTV or Silicon to hold the tweeter in place as you snap the bezels over it.

Once broken in I am very happy with the system and sound clarity except the buzzing in the one tweeter. I will get them replaced and mounted better maybe in different location. The Bass from the Alpine/Kicker combo is SWEET and just right.

I would like more control over the EQ sound stage but not sure of JBL DSP is really worth it wish there was something simpliar to throw in there.

Also the IPOD connection works very well but the volume is low and selecting music through the display is horrible.
I do not understand how a huge screen on this car some how only uses like 8 characters in the upper right hand side with small font to display the stereo title and RDS info. Is there a way to change that? I assumed if you cycle through status you should get more info but doesn't seem to work

[SchoonerVanHelmet]

I replaced my front and rear door speakers with the Infinity Kappa 63.9 (3-Way Speakers / 2 ohms/ 95DB). I removed the stock 10" sub in the rear deck, added dynoliner to fix the rear deck rattles and added the Infiniti 12" Enclosed sub (REF1220SE) in the trunk.

The Kappa 63.9 are too deep for the doors, so I utilized the existing Bose plastic speaker mounts. I had to cut the existing Bose speaker out of the existing housing, drill small holes and add small metal clips. The Kappa 63.9 speakers fit inside the plastic mounts with no problems.