Spark Plugs

[PoorManQ45]

I know that you guys always say to only use NGK Iridium plugs in the Q45. I'm just wondering. Please don't harrass me for wondering.

Has anybody tested Denso Iridium plugs in the Q45? They are usually a little more expensive then NGK Iridium plugs. Is there any reason for them to cost more?

Also, what would happen if I used the NGK plugs, but I got a set that is rated hotter than OEM? Or colder. What would happen?

[PalmerWMD]

some pretty good techs say the densos, are just as good as the ngk's, even tho the ngk's are purpose made for the Q.

Fred..

[fxjackso]

I just removed a set of Nippondensos with about 60,000 miles on them. They were quite worn out, but still firing. My car, BTW, leaks oil around the valve stem seals. There were some deposits around the base of the threads but that's all. I went with one step hotter NGK's, and they seem to perform better-but they are new.

Now if only I could get some premium gas.

[PoorManQ45]

On the Q45.org site, I noticed that they are offering NGK Platinum plugs for $57. http://www.q45.org/shop.html

Isn't it recommended to use only NGK Iridium plugs?

What is/are the difference between Platinum and Iridium plugs?

What are the adverse affects of using Platinum plugs rather than Iridium plugs?

Unrelated question. What brand of Oxygen sensors should I use? I have noticed that NGK, Denso, and Bosch all sell sensors for the Q45. What is/are the differences between them?

Also, does anybody sell wideband O2 sensors for the Q45? I have noticed that wideband sensors are usually recommended when you boost an engine. Would these sensors be required when boosting the Q45?

[AZhitman]

According to NGK, even THEY don't recommend the Iridium - only the platinums. Not sure of the WHY (sorry), but that was good enough for me.

Moving within the temp range is OK - I'm not positive of the application of the "hotter" or "cooler' plug.

On a side note - I once spoke on the phone with a Bosch engineer (guy who was on the design team for the +4), and he said "I wouldn't use Bosch +4 in a VH45DE" - the electrodes are not "beefy" enough to withstand the environment.

Several Q's have met their demise when a "cut rate" plug diintegrated in the CC.

[elwesso]

Im your local spark plug man!!!

The iridium plugs are just different, not platinum tipped.... I remember dennis saying sometime that they have seen at least one failure of any other make/model of plug OTHER than OEM!!! THats enough for me!!!

As far as a temp range here is what I recommend

1. If you drive the car normally, and somewhat hard, use the OEM stock PRF5G-11

2. If you drive the car on nearly all highway AND drive the car very hard, the 6Gs will do better..

The 5g's do not foul as easy, due to being warmer... The 6Gs may have better performance, but that is up to speculation.....

[PoorManQ45]

Ok, this may seem like a dumb question, but I want to know the answer.

Why don't we use NGK Copper plugs in the Q45? Copper conducts both heat and electricity better than Iridium or Platinum. So, why wouldn't we want to use the most conductive spark plugs there are?

On a realated topic.

Does anybody make Wideband O2 sensors for the Q45?

[psychic_mechanic]

I think the biggest reason was reduced maintenance schedule for the plugs. If the car is in a decent state of tune platinums can run much longer than copper plugs before they become fouled and start to misfire. In the Q and other cars where changing plugs takes several hours it makes more sense to use something you don't need to replace on an annual basis.

[Jesda]

Ford took this approach on the Windstar w/ 3.8L V6. Engine removal is suggested for plug replacement.

[szh]

Ford took this approach on the Windstar w/ 3.8L V6. Engine removal is suggested for plug replacement.

Yeah ... they did not learn from stuffing an 8-cylinder engine into the ill-fated Monza. Or was that GM?

Z

[par2za]

ok to answer a few questions. the diffrence bettween platinum, irridium,and copper are wear properties only. now the diffrence between platinum and irridium are that plat-plugs are lazer cut to have a mirror finish, because spark like sharp edges. and if its not supplied with sharp egdes then resistace goes up so does the secondary spark output. (look at a copper plug the center electrode is worn because of the spark activity thus the short life) on a platinum plug becuase of the mirror finish, it will last very long(thus the 60k plug) and by the way never adjust the gap on platinum plugs. you will scratch the surface the plug life will be dramatically shorten its life. irridium in contrast to platinum, is the same except that the resistance is less, and you dont get the higher secondary spark needed in a high compression engine. now the lesson of the day. Is buy the right plugs for the vehicle becuase total circuit resistance will affect seconday spark output and if not with-in engine design specs will have a misfire at stop lights and light tip-in cruises. but again thats my oppinion. and for the individual that wrote you need to remove the 3.8 windstar engine to remove the plugs. look at a service manuel and read you dont need to remove the engine. it looks difficult to reach the plugs but just like anything there are ways around it.lol

[psychic_mechanic]

The ford vans were not as bad as the dodges.

Some of the not so great techs do 5 cylinder tune ups on the dodge vans with the 3.8.

[IvoryJ30t]

as for the wideband, they are universal.

you need to weld a bung onto the exhaust manifolds. widebands have different threads than narrow band O2.

your also going to need a controller.

[PoorManQ45]

Has anybody ever put Wideband O2 sensors on a Q45?

What kind of "controller" would I need? Do you have any recommendations. Any that might be compatible with the Q?

[HeavyDuty]

ok to answer a few questions. the diffrence bettween platinum, irridium,and copper are wear properties only. now the diffrence between platinum and irridium are that plat-plugs are lazer cut to have a mirror finish, because spark like sharp edges. and if its not supplied with sharp egdes then resistace goes up so does the secondary spark output.

Check this out first:

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/t...ry=US

http://www.webelements.com/web....html

http://www.theodoregray.com/Pe....html

Man, that's a big-*** post, but if I may clarify a couple of things? All the plat plugs I've seen are biscuit laden, not mirror-polished. I wholeheartedly agree that the biscuits *are* polished & service intervals are greatly extended with a plat plug, and, after all, a spark plug is an emissions control device, but to take it a step further....

And no, this wasn't a forced-induction discussion, but...

The violent environment of a boosted (particularly n2o) engine lends itself to dislodging said biscuits, as well as the fact that a copper plug is a fuse in a boosted motor, pre-ignition or detonation (technically two different events) will melt a copper plug. That's a good thing if the oh-$hit-o-meter goes off (fuel system failure, for instance).

A catalytic converter is comprised of platinum pellets (old school) or platimum coated ceramic honeycombs. They fire or burn-off the unburned fuel to reduce emissions.

(look at a copper plug the center electrode is worn because of the spark activity thus the short life) on a platinum plug becuase of the mirror finish, it will last very long(thus the 60k plug) and by the way never adjust the gap on platinum plugs. you will scratch the surface the plug life will be dramatically shorten its life. irridium in contrast to platinum, is the same except that the resistance is less, and you dont get the higher secondary spark needed in a high compression engine. now the lesson of the day. Is buy the right plugs for the vehicle becuase total circuit resistance will affect seconday spark output and if not with-in engine design specs will have a misfire at stop lights and light tip-in cruises. but again thats my oppinion.

Copper is soft.

Do you not have platinum & iridium confused? A plat plug can be gapped, an irid, not. Iridium is a dust coating that is applied to a plug, if you 'gap' an irid, you just wasted a bunch of money. Iridium is not exactly malleable.

Yes, most pre-gapped irids, coppers & plats come with that little cylinder shaped protector, because they're pre-gapped and it's there to protect them during shipping/handling, but plats are gap-able without disrupting the biscuit. (In the NGK line "-11" means pre-gapped.

Yes, one could infer from my post that I like biscuits.

"Ya got any biscuits in there?" Carl, from the Classic (in my mind) Sling Blade

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, just relating my experience.

P.S. Yes, Ford uses a Irid/Plat plug in the Lightning/Cobra s/c which is OK for low boost apps.

[PoorManQ45]

Ok, I understand that Platinum is the best for longevity and good preformance.

What I'm still wondering is. Since copper is a better conducter than platinum, couldn't the gap on the copper plugs be larger. This would create a spark that had a little more area to it, would it not?

Also, on the subject of ignitions. Does anybody make performance coilpacks for the Q45? If not, could any that are made be easily modified to work with the Q45? I know that the stock system is very good, but there is probably something better, correct? What are the output ratings of the Q45 coilpacks?

[IvoryJ30t]

the wideband sensor outputs a 0-5vdc signal that corresponds to the lambda value of the exhaust.

but it is not a linear curve, so the controller is needed to interpret the sensors output into a useable value.

widebands are not vehicle specific, so there is nothing specifically for the Q.

the wideband is of very little use without some way of altering the airflow signal. it will tell you how the motors mixture is doing, but there is nothing you can do about the mixture without some piggyback.

there are places that sell wideband controller DIY kits. you need to solder the components to the pcb. you may need a scope to calibrate the controller.

[psychic_mechanic]

The resistance in the metal parts of the plug is inconsequential compared to the resistance of the gap itself. Most of the energy is used jumping across the air gap, not running through the conducter.

[IvoryJ30t]

Ok, I understand that Platinum is the best for longevity and good preformance.

What I'm still wondering is. Since copper is a better conducter than platinum, couldn't the gap on the copper plugs be larger. This would create a spark that had a little more area to it, would it not?

Also, on the subject of ignitions. Does anybody make performance coilpacks for the Q45? If not, could any that are made be easily modified to work with the Q45? I know that the stock system is very good, but there is probably something better, correct? What are the output ratings of the Q45 coilpacks?

your better off not messing with the coils.

the replacement coils need to macth as far as dwell time goes.

if you move to a hotter coil, but the new coil has a longer dwell time, you will wind up loosing ignition power compared to the stock coils.

also, if the new coils have a shorter dwell time, you may wind up burning the coils.

[PoorManQ45]

your better off not messing with the coils.

the replacement coils need to macth as far as dwell time goes.

if you move to a hotter coil, but the new coil has a longer dwell time, you will wind up loosing ignition power compared to the stock coils.

also, if the new coils have a shorter dwell time, you may wind up burning the coils.

How can other can other people with different cars upgrade their ignition systems and gain a little performance? I mean, arn't they straying from the OEM design?

If I could find new coils with the OEM dwell, but they had a higher discharge output than OEM, would that increase performance or MPG at all? Also, don't some aftermarket coils/ignitions have an adjustable dwell?

Ok, time for a new question.

Does anybody make a standalone ECU/EMS that will work with the Q45? Possibly AEM. I have read about there products, and it seems that they can tune almost all aspects of an engine.

[IvoryJ30t]

if your not pushing boost, there is little to be gained by replacing the coils. your not trying to light a denser charge.

AEM makes a capacitive discharge ignition system. you need the 8 channel. that would give much better results than replacing the coils.

as far as standalones, the motec M800 is just about the only aftermarket ecu that packs the gear to control the VH. that is what i factored into my project.