hey guys I had a quick question what are your opinions on wheel spacers? Yeah, duh, they're wheel spacers but what I mean is do you think they would be something to avoid for track/auto-x/drift use? Yanno like is there much risk of the spacer causing the wheel to be unsteady or unsafer than it would without it.
Also I believe volk makes an adapter to fit 4x100 wheels to the s13 4x114.3 hub. How does this work (newb wheel question here...sorry -_-) and like the wheel spacers, is that going to increase the risk of a wheel flying of while under heavy cornering or sliding? What about both?
I'm hoping to run 16x7 all around but with my coilovers I need a +25 or lower offset for 7"(I think that's right). I may try to buy used wheels to save money but they I'd likely have to buy spacers to fit the front wheels, and may run rear spacers to have an even look. I don't want to have my wheels sticking out real noticeably under the fenders tho so I'm kinda limited in what I can do. I'd rather not have to buy spacer or longer wheel studs to accomodate the wheels. Anybody know if a 7" wide wheel at +25 would need longer than stock wheel studs to fit securely?? Thanks.
Spacers and adapters
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Project S13
- Posts: 248
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hannibal
- Posts: 9680
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Re: Spacers and adapters (Project S13)
This belongs in the wheels forum...Most guys are against spacer cause theyre a band-aid for incorrectly sized wheels. ChunkiDori mentioned a Japanese drifter that runs spacers without problems. Bolt on spacers are much better. THey work very similar to the 4 lug adapter you mentioned. THe spacer bolts onto the studs and provides new studs on it for the wheels.
Re: (BomexS13)
I run 20mm bolt on spacers, they are hub and wheel centric, absolutly no problems. Every bad story about spacers ive heard is the slip on style, many drifters use the bolt ons without issues.
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skydragoness
- Posts: 9394
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92' 240sx 60k survivor :) - Location: North DFW, TEJAS
- Contact:
Re: (sixxdeuce)
Sometimes i think people post wheel/tire/suspension questions in this forum instead of the other forum because they're afraid of being flamed by CD, or Exar-kun. That or the search button just isn't red and flashy enough.
http://www.wheelspacers.com
http://www.wheelspacers.com
Re: (Juujai)
Nope, solid billit 1 piece. I wish I had wheels that only needed 5mm. damn 4lug. 16x7.5+22 is the best sized ones i have now, so with the spacers it fits about right.Juujai wrote:are there adjustable spacers? like for certain wheels you might need 10mm and for others maybe 5
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Project S13
- Posts: 248
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Re: (skydragoness5)
I have seen some pretty bad advice from that forum, they tend too be way too conservative.skydragoness5 wrote:Sometimes i think people post wheel/tire/suspension questions in this forum instead of the other forum because they're afraid of being flamed by CD, or Exar-kun. That or the search button just isn't red and flashy enough.
http://www.wheelspacers.com
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skydragoness
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92' 240sx 60k survivor :) - Location: North DFW, TEJAS
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Re: (sixxdeuce)
I would say it is ten-fold in the 240 general chat. Hence it's called the 'general' chat. Honestly, i find the links in the stickies in the Tire/Wheel/Suspension forum more helpful than just opinions as well.sixxdeuce wrote:
I have seen some pretty bad advice from that forum, they tend too be way too conservative.
Re: (sixxdeuce)
Better to give advice that will help. Seriously, some days I think it's not worth the time it takes to explain how to do things right. If doing it right is considered bad advice then I have no interest in helping the ungrateful kids on this or any other internet message board.sixxdeuce wrote:
I have seen some pretty bad advice from that forum, they tend too be way too conservative.
Re: (SmithSR)
exactly.SmithSR wrote:
Better to give advice that will help. Seriously, some days I think it's not worth the time it takes to explain how to do things right. If doing it right is considered bad advice then I have no interest in helping the ungrateful kids on this or any other internet message board.
Re: (nismofly)
THanks. We post for people who like to learn.
Seriously, the more you knwo, the less definitive answers and things get. You see (working in the industry as Smith, GRant and myself do) and learn from reading/hands on (like dori-dori, smith, etc)..
but the more you learn about how a car functions as a unit and how changes to offset, width, track, scrub radious, steering axis, roll center, center of gravity, frame height, suspension link angles and bushings, springs and sway bars all come together....
the less often you'll be able to go "oh. do X" because you'll end up with lots of questions like"are you willing to deal with hub bearing streess, harder steering and els self aligning torque to fit that wheel?"
or
"for your alignemnt, whats more important turn-in, or positive feel when driving?"
I'm still continuing my own self-education on these things, and if people would sit down and think about just how interlinked things in their car -are-...they wouldn't find most our advice "conservative". I'd hope they'd find it as a base point for what we would do and why...then make a more educated decision for their own cars.
after all its your car, you can destroy it if you want....I'd just rather not help you do it.
-Chet
Seriously, the more you knwo, the less definitive answers and things get. You see (working in the industry as Smith, GRant and myself do) and learn from reading/hands on (like dori-dori, smith, etc)..
but the more you learn about how a car functions as a unit and how changes to offset, width, track, scrub radious, steering axis, roll center, center of gravity, frame height, suspension link angles and bushings, springs and sway bars all come together....
the less often you'll be able to go "oh. do X" because you'll end up with lots of questions like"are you willing to deal with hub bearing streess, harder steering and els self aligning torque to fit that wheel?"
or
"for your alignemnt, whats more important turn-in, or positive feel when driving?"
I'm still continuing my own self-education on these things, and if people would sit down and think about just how interlinked things in their car -are-...they wouldn't find most our advice "conservative". I'd hope they'd find it as a base point for what we would do and why...then make a more educated decision for their own cars.
after all its your car, you can destroy it if you want....I'd just rather not help you do it.
-Chet
Re: (Exar-Kun)
haha, didnt mean to offend any of you. I admit its been awhile since ive read here but maybe my comment doesnt apply anymore. Fact is there are some people that want to run a 17x10 low offset on a S13 with crazy camber, some people like toe out in the rear. Many people like stretched tires and have been safly using them for years, none of these are bad when used in the correct application, yet in the past ive seen people on this board act like its the worst idea they have ever heard, as if they dont realize highly skilled drivers have proven time and time again it all works.
I say your advice is perfect for 95% of people here, and the other 5% that would run something outside of your recomendations wouldnt be the ones asking the questions
I say your advice is perfect for 95% of people here, and the other 5% that would run something outside of your recomendations wouldnt be the ones asking the questions
Re: (SmithSR)
The view that there is only 1 right way to setup a car is the absolute worst advice you could ever give, working in the industry you have to know this.SmithSR wrote:
Better to give advice that will help. Seriously, some days I think it's not worth the time it takes to explain how to do things right. If doing it right is considered bad advice then I have no interest in helping the ungrateful kids on this or any other internet message board.
Re: (sixxdeuce)
their is way more then one way to set up a car...theirs more then one way to get to San Deigo, but some are gonna take days and some will take hours. He admited that their are other ways...sixxdeuce wrote:
The view that there is only 1 right way to setup a car is the absolute worst advice you could ever give, working in the industry you have to know this.
you can set it up different ways but all of them will require sacrafice, so you can have wheels sticking out of the fender 3 feet but its gonna wear some parts quicker probably cause other problems. Cars a realy increadbly complex machines, and you have to respect that...ExarKun wrote:the less often you'll be able to go "oh. do X" because you'll end up with lots of questions like"are you willing to deal with hub bearing streess, harder steering and els self aligning torque to fit that wheel?"
or
"for your alignemnt, whats more important turn-in, or positive feel when driving?"
Re: (Red coupe)
and there is more than 1 way to actually have flush wheels on stretched tires with rediculous low height with perfect streetability, no bump steer, aligned to whatever specs you want, contrary to what some people will tell you here. Now i remember why i havent been on this section in awhile.
But how about getting back on topic? Maybe someone can tell the guy how spacers are such a bad idea and list all the things that have a .05% chance of happening, and then explain how so many people in socal and even pro drifters use them with no problems.
But how about getting back on topic? Maybe someone can tell the guy how spacers are such a bad idea and list all the things that have a .05% chance of happening, and then explain how so many people in socal and even pro drifters use them with no problems.
Re: (sixxdeuce)
How about you go actually educate yourself about suspension geometries before mouthing off?
You are correct there is no absoute "1 best setup" for everything but:
"and there is more than 1 way to actually have flush wheels on stretched tires with ridiculous low height with perfect streetability, no bump steer, aligned to whatever specs you want, contrary to what some people will tell you here. Now I remember why I haven’t been on this section in awhile."
no,..uh..no, and no.
Ideal frame height negates one point, suspension travel and grip ability associated with it negates a second, bump steer is a function of scrub radius angles between the tie rods and control arms, which increases with wider (lower offset) wheels..meaing that point is false,
And alignment specs affect all that, negating your last point. "perfect streetability" falls into a range of alignment settings for an intended purpose, at given constants (like suspension heights, travel, camber gain, roll center and amount of roll steer...)
How many people do you know that actually look at the measurements, just the lower control arms to reduce scrub radius by using a higher kingpin inclination (which leads to other problems) to get that "zero bump steer" and takes measurements and tie rod pivot point into account when they do it?
Only the guys that have professionally set up suspensions.
Case in point, excessive negative camber is used on race cars because they're compensating for a camber gain falling short in their suspensions on road courses, using race tires. Settings on this depend on spring rate, roll center, type of suspension, etc....Do you really think half the kids running -4* of camber on their cars take the time to consider that? NO.
They just run it "without a problem"...except there is, they just might not know it. You’re screwing with all kinds of things when you start going to extremes like that.
Anyways, if you're going to have such an attitude that "oh look X did it and he said it works" and dismiss the research and proven suspension theories then by all means, stay clear of this section. I'd rather not have miss-information and crap floating around like that.
If you understand -what- you’re doing to the car and -why-, do what you like. but I'd say you, and most other just see what someone does and not necessarily the why (other than they saw someone else do it, or it looks cool, or you take a point to an extreme, like lower cars handle better...because weight transfer is less....but you don't take time to learn about roll centers, frame heights and other things. so you slam them and think it handles better...same thing goes for spring rates)...
Now, as you said back on topic:
Spacers are bad for the following reasons:
-safety, this primarily applies to sandwich style spacers. Don’t use them; they compromise clamping force from the lug nuts-wheel-hub.-weight: they weigh more. Since when does more unsprung weight mean good?-Suspension geometries- they artificially reduce the offset of a wheel..
-increasing the scrub radius (thereby increasing the amount of twisting force fed into the spindle and steering on any bump or cornering force is experiences) -increasing hub stress and fatigue by moving the weight of the tire out (think about a lever arm)- decreasing the effective spring rate (called the wheel rate) by the same method (why you'd need to run higher spring rates to control it, leading to other problems if you don't run R compounds on smooth surfaces)-if only used at the front, they alter the front-to-rear track ratio designed by Nissan, creating tracking and handling imbalances due to effective wheel rate changes and other things.
There. Now you know. I can do into more detail if you want..but I doubt most people even read this far...
Thanks for listening, and I'm sure I just made about 20x more enemies on this board yet again.
-Chet
Also, my appolgies to Red_Coupe, and others liek Sky. I don't flame people until they do something like the above isntead of sit back and think. I appologise If I seem hostile to the rest. I'm just sick of mis-information and "see it must be ok" crap being spread around in my pressence for no good reason.
You are correct there is no absoute "1 best setup" for everything but:
"and there is more than 1 way to actually have flush wheels on stretched tires with ridiculous low height with perfect streetability, no bump steer, aligned to whatever specs you want, contrary to what some people will tell you here. Now I remember why I haven’t been on this section in awhile."
no,..uh..no, and no.
Ideal frame height negates one point, suspension travel and grip ability associated with it negates a second, bump steer is a function of scrub radius angles between the tie rods and control arms, which increases with wider (lower offset) wheels..meaing that point is false,
And alignment specs affect all that, negating your last point. "perfect streetability" falls into a range of alignment settings for an intended purpose, at given constants (like suspension heights, travel, camber gain, roll center and amount of roll steer...)
How many people do you know that actually look at the measurements, just the lower control arms to reduce scrub radius by using a higher kingpin inclination (which leads to other problems) to get that "zero bump steer" and takes measurements and tie rod pivot point into account when they do it?
Only the guys that have professionally set up suspensions.
Case in point, excessive negative camber is used on race cars because they're compensating for a camber gain falling short in their suspensions on road courses, using race tires. Settings on this depend on spring rate, roll center, type of suspension, etc....Do you really think half the kids running -4* of camber on their cars take the time to consider that? NO.
They just run it "without a problem"...except there is, they just might not know it. You’re screwing with all kinds of things when you start going to extremes like that.
Anyways, if you're going to have such an attitude that "oh look X did it and he said it works" and dismiss the research and proven suspension theories then by all means, stay clear of this section. I'd rather not have miss-information and crap floating around like that.
If you understand -what- you’re doing to the car and -why-, do what you like. but I'd say you, and most other just see what someone does and not necessarily the why (other than they saw someone else do it, or it looks cool, or you take a point to an extreme, like lower cars handle better...because weight transfer is less....but you don't take time to learn about roll centers, frame heights and other things. so you slam them and think it handles better...same thing goes for spring rates)...
Now, as you said back on topic:
Spacers are bad for the following reasons:
-safety, this primarily applies to sandwich style spacers. Don’t use them; they compromise clamping force from the lug nuts-wheel-hub.-weight: they weigh more. Since when does more unsprung weight mean good?-Suspension geometries- they artificially reduce the offset of a wheel..
-increasing the scrub radius (thereby increasing the amount of twisting force fed into the spindle and steering on any bump or cornering force is experiences) -increasing hub stress and fatigue by moving the weight of the tire out (think about a lever arm)- decreasing the effective spring rate (called the wheel rate) by the same method (why you'd need to run higher spring rates to control it, leading to other problems if you don't run R compounds on smooth surfaces)-if only used at the front, they alter the front-to-rear track ratio designed by Nissan, creating tracking and handling imbalances due to effective wheel rate changes and other things.
There. Now you know. I can do into more detail if you want..but I doubt most people even read this far...
Thanks for listening, and I'm sure I just made about 20x more enemies on this board yet again.
-Chet
Also, my appolgies to Red_Coupe, and others liek Sky. I don't flame people until they do something like the above isntead of sit back and think. I appologise If I seem hostile to the rest. I'm just sick of mis-information and "see it must be ok" crap being spread around in my pressence for no good reason.
Re: (Exar-Kun)
Yeah, because you know how many hours of test and tune are in my suspension setup right now, and you know the shop that sets the final #'s and the caliber of the cars they work on....
I have countless hours and tons of seat time in just spent adjusting my settings, down to differences in tire compound ect. Ive ran on a wide range of wheel widths and weights, varying toe, caster and camber settings and it doesnt take much time to feel where a car is not setup right and figure out how to compensate for it. All I have to say a driver that cant make up for such things needs alot more practice. What are we talking about here anyway, f1?
You keep posting all the technical stuff you want, some of the kids here will believe it has any relevance in what they will be using the car for. Ill keep going to the track wondering why my car actually responds to every input i give it since acording to you its a nightmare of suspension enguneering and geometry. Must be a miracle or something?
I have countless hours and tons of seat time in just spent adjusting my settings, down to differences in tire compound ect. Ive ran on a wide range of wheel widths and weights, varying toe, caster and camber settings and it doesnt take much time to feel where a car is not setup right and figure out how to compensate for it. All I have to say a driver that cant make up for such things needs alot more practice. What are we talking about here anyway, f1?
You keep posting all the technical stuff you want, some of the kids here will believe it has any relevance in what they will be using the car for. Ill keep going to the track wondering why my car actually responds to every input i give it since acording to you its a nightmare of suspension enguneering and geometry. Must be a miracle or something?
Re: (sixxdeuce)
btw, the car you yourself have in your sig, richards old one, had all its suspension work setup at the shop that sets my alignment specs, Superior, which also worked on suspensions of a couple other formula D drivers and i think a guy that just won his D1 liscense, funny they mentioned how similiar my stuff was, maybe theirs were all messed up too.......? Formula D and D1 drivers must be so poorly educated about suspension too.
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Nismo_Freak
- Posts: 10314
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:42 pm
- Car: 89 Nissan 240SX
Re: (sixxdeuce)
Just out of curiosity... what is your suspension setup and what hard numbers are you using to calibrate the suspension accordingly?sixxdeuce wrote:Yeah, because you know how many hours of test and tune are in my suspension setup right now, and you know the shop that sets the final #'s and the caliber of the cars they work on....
I have countless hours and tons of seat time in just spent adjusting my settings, down to differences in tire compound ect. Ive ran on a wide range of wheel widths and weights, varying toe, caster and camber settings and it doesnt take much time to feel where a car is not setup right and figure out how to compensate for it. All I have to say a driver that cant make up for such things needs alot more practice. What are we talking about here anyway, f1?
You keep posting all the technical stuff you want, some of the kids here will believe it has any relevance in what they will be using the car for. Ill keep going to the track wondering why my car actually responds to every input i give it since acording to you its a nightmare of suspension enguneering and geometry. Must be a miracle or something?
Re: (sixxdeuce)
I use that beacuse its Phase-2's banner. and they've treated me right.just because your car "responds" to every input you give it..doesn't mean its doing it in an effective manner..most cars respond to inputs....
I can go on and on about technichal stuff, and how it could help anyone with their goals. Suspension tuning is a game of compromises and optimals for given situations and uses.
I don't have to know how many hours, time, etc you've spent...I know that the logic you're using is wrong, and that's good enough for me, and I've proved it.
but yes, I'd be intrigued to see what hard numbers and math was used to get this "fully streetable" ultra low drop you keep talking aobut...
Also, a D1 car is far from "street" car, much like a JGTC or FIA GT-NGT or ALMS car....jus because it uses a street body chassis doesn't mean your car should use the same suspension settings for a baseline, by any means.
"All I have to say a driver that cant make up for such things needs alot more practice."
why would you have to -make up- for something? OH! right, you're admiting those settings do do bad things and the drive has to compensate for it...why not set it up correctly in the first place, giving the driver the best conditions possible for peformance, with the elast drawbacks..not something to "compensate" for?
we're NOT talking about F-1. We're talking about peoples cars they drive..hence the 'conservative' and more grounded advice given to them. If someone comes acorss and goes "yeah, its my 3rd car, I want it track only"
the advice given will differ greatly from the typical "I want a car I drive daily and want to autocross..."
I'd love to get my hands on your car and show and talk you though wahts going on with different steering inputs and things, just so you could see what Iw as talking about..but it's all here in archives.
Anyways, do what you want. But -KNOW- what you're doing..and you should know why also.
That's what I try and provide.
Have a nice day.
I can go on and on about technichal stuff, and how it could help anyone with their goals. Suspension tuning is a game of compromises and optimals for given situations and uses.
I don't have to know how many hours, time, etc you've spent...I know that the logic you're using is wrong, and that's good enough for me, and I've proved it.
but yes, I'd be intrigued to see what hard numbers and math was used to get this "fully streetable" ultra low drop you keep talking aobut...
Also, a D1 car is far from "street" car, much like a JGTC or FIA GT-NGT or ALMS car....jus because it uses a street body chassis doesn't mean your car should use the same suspension settings for a baseline, by any means.
"All I have to say a driver that cant make up for such things needs alot more practice."
why would you have to -make up- for something? OH! right, you're admiting those settings do do bad things and the drive has to compensate for it...why not set it up correctly in the first place, giving the driver the best conditions possible for peformance, with the elast drawbacks..not something to "compensate" for?
we're NOT talking about F-1. We're talking about peoples cars they drive..hence the 'conservative' and more grounded advice given to them. If someone comes acorss and goes "yeah, its my 3rd car, I want it track only"
the advice given will differ greatly from the typical "I want a car I drive daily and want to autocross..."
I'd love to get my hands on your car and show and talk you though wahts going on with different steering inputs and things, just so you could see what Iw as talking about..but it's all here in archives.
Anyways, do what you want. But -KNOW- what you're doing..and you should know why also.
That's what I try and provide.
Have a nice day.
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hannibal
- Posts: 9680
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 2:38 am
- Car: Red Line to Glenmont
- Location: Washington DC
Re: (Exar-Kun)
The guys in this forum deal with more off-the-wall questions than anywhere else on this forum. I understand that can be frustrating.
I appreciate hearing the theory and reasoning behind their recommendations. No matter what your goals are for your car, oyu can learn something from this. Take their advice, then figure out which parts are relevant to your goals. These guys dont know THE perfect setup for everyone. But they can give you a reasonable place to start from.
Just read thru this forum. Or search for Chet, Alan, and Smith's post. You'll see how much they repeat themselves.
I appreciate hearing the theory and reasoning behind their recommendations. No matter what your goals are for your car, oyu can learn something from this. Take their advice, then figure out which parts are relevant to your goals. These guys dont know THE perfect setup for everyone. But they can give you a reasonable place to start from.
Just read thru this forum. Or search for Chet, Alan, and Smith's post. You'll see how much they repeat themselves.
Re: (IWannaS15)
Thanks man.
We do it for you guys...hell, I often learn quite a bit from others on thos forum. None of us thinkwe have the "1 best setup", but we try and tell you why something should be done for a desired result as much as possible.
Thanks again.
-Chet
We do it for you guys...hell, I often learn quite a bit from others on thos forum. None of us thinkwe have the "1 best setup", but we try and tell you why something should be done for a desired result as much as possible.
Thanks again.
-Chet
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skydragoness
- Posts: 9394
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:49 am
- Car: 03' 350z Touring 6spd
92' 240sx 60k survivor :) - Location: North DFW, TEJAS
- Contact:
Re: (Exar-Kun)
No need to apologize to me Exar, I was simply implying that people don't post in this forum because they're going to hear some 'bad news' from you and ChunkiDori about their 'dubs' Although it's more truthfully because they don't know this forum exists still.Exar-Kun wrote:Also, my apolgies to Red_Coupe, and others liek Sky. I don't flame people until they do something like the above isntead of sit back and think. I appologise If I seem hostile to the rest. I'm just sick of mis-information and "see it must be ok" crap being spread around in my pressence for no good reason.
Re: (skydragoness5)
Sure, I dont mind sharing the basic numbers with you. No math was utilized, just the old fasion way, and lots of $ on tires, parts and alignments
Most recent and best responding so far:
front-2.8 camber, run slightly more at track depending on tires7.5 caster1/16th toe in
rear:-2 camber1/16th toe out
still running on stock valved he's with the normal springs. Slightly more pre load on the front springs, still need to have it corner weighted once im done tinkering with everything.
Im sure the specs look kind of funny to some people, but I have noticed that since running toe in on front it makes the tires last much longer with that camber, and toe out in the back brings the rear out much faster with vlsd.
If you notice in my posts i never called out any names, because i do have respect for you guys sharing the knowledge, and i still feel like you provide exellent info for most people on this particular site.
Most recent and best responding so far:
front-2.8 camber, run slightly more at track depending on tires7.5 caster1/16th toe in
rear:-2 camber1/16th toe out
still running on stock valved he's with the normal springs. Slightly more pre load on the front springs, still need to have it corner weighted once im done tinkering with everything.
Im sure the specs look kind of funny to some people, but I have noticed that since running toe in on front it makes the tires last much longer with that camber, and toe out in the back brings the rear out much faster with vlsd.
If you notice in my posts i never called out any names, because i do have respect for you guys sharing the knowledge, and i still feel like you provide exellent info for most people on this particular site.
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Nismo_Freak
- Posts: 10314
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:42 pm
- Car: 89 Nissan 240SX
Re: (sixxdeuce)
Thats alot of static negative camber in the front for a street tire. Do you take any pyrometer measurements? Reason being is that I have - 2.5 but I also have softer spring rates and a higher ride height.sixxdeuce wrote:Sure, I dont mind sharing the basic numbers with you. No math was utilized, just the old fasion way, and lots of $ on tires, parts and alignments
Most recent and best responding so far:
front-2.8 camber, run slightly more at track depending on tires7.5 caster1/16th toe in
rear:-2 camber1/16th toe out
still running on stock valved he's with the normal springs. Slightly more pre load on the front springs, still need to have it corner weighted once im done tinkering with everything.
Im sure the specs look kind of funny to some people, but I have noticed that since running toe in on front it makes the tires last much longer with that camber, and toe out in the back brings the rear out much faster with vlsd.
If you notice in my posts i never called out any names, because i do have respect for you guys sharing the knowledge, and i still feel like you provide exellent info for most people on this particular site.
Re: (Nismo_Freak)
Ive never taken any temp readings, but I cant feel the tires getting too hot, not to the point it affects the handleing charateristics anyway. But visually I can see the outside wearing a little at the track, dusting on the outboard edge, so the tire apears to be fully rolling under putting the full contact patch down under hard cornering.
I actually get very decent tire wear on 205/50/16 fm901's since I changed from 0 toe to slight toe in on the front. I used to run Goodyear F1's with nuetral toe and the bite was awesome, turn in was crisp, but tires got very bad camber wear real fast.
I actually get very decent tire wear on 205/50/16 fm901's since I changed from 0 toe to slight toe in on the front. I used to run Goodyear F1's with nuetral toe and the bite was awesome, turn in was crisp, but tires got very bad camber wear real fast.