Re: Sony makes me angry (Also 3DS launch thread).

[MinisterofDOOM]

Sony has a long and infamous history of putting their terror at the idea of piracy before their treatment of paying customers. Whether it's feature-killing firmware updates or tedious install methods or Apple style device "authorization" there's always something there to remind us as paying customers that we're not trusted, not even for a second.

Today I upgraded the hard drive in my PS3. It's a supported feature, and one with easy-to-follow instructions in the user manual that comes in the box. Anyone can do it. I did it. And now I've lost $50+ worth of video purchases because PSN video purchases are only good for one download. I had no way to back them up, but figured I'd just re-download them along with all my games. Nope. Can't do that. Even after explaining my plight to Sony support, including a courteous but stonewalling supervisor, there's no help. They simply explained that I agreed at the time of purchase that I was only purchasing a license to download the content once.

So yeah, I screwed up...I knew from looking at deleting a couple videos before that there was a warning that I wouldn't be able to re-download them. But I couldn't back 'em up. And I needed to upgrade. I was hoping Sony would work with me, but they won't.

I guess I won't be purchasing any more PSN movies. No more "buying" s*** I won't actually own.

I hate DRM so much. I'm so sick of getting the short end of the stick while the people these measures are designed to thwart go on circumventing them anyway. I'm nearly mad enough to pack up my PS3 and never buy another game for it again...which is saying a lot considering how much I like the console itself.

[Kompresshun]

That blows man, now I have yet another reason I have no use for a PS3. At least Zune Marketplace doesn't pull that crap, I hate DRM protected content with a passion regardless though. I've bought tons of stuff on Xbox and had no issues copying it over with a flash drive when I bought the new one, everything copied over and worked like I never switched consoles.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The irony here is that I upgraded the drive so I could have more room for PSN purchases.

Now I've wasted money AND time and effort.

[fiznowler]

LOL microsoft is no better to work with. I refuse to pay for downloaded movies, It does seem stupid that you can't download it a few times. The game DLC should be fine. You can share it on I think up to 4 consoles. My brother and I and a couple friends roatate buying map packs for COD everytime.

[Razi]

Another example of a feature that hurts the customer more than the pirates.

[Kompresshun]

The irony here is that I upgraded the drive so I could have more room for PSN purchases.

Now I've wasted money AND time and effort.

That's the only thing that pissed me off about previous generation Xbox's, you had to buy THEIR hard drive if you wanted to upgrade the capacity. Or you could rig one of your own to work, you couldn't use an external or just hot swap one in that you bought. I'm not sure about the current ones, but I know they're internal now, and at least mine came standard with a 250GB drive. Although i've only used about 30% of the capacity so far, it's still nice to know that I have it. Either way, at least MS will let you copy over purchases and tracks your purchasing history in case you lose anything. I know PSN has moved strides ahead from when I had my PSP, but I hated it with a passion even back then.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The 360 slim is no different. You still have to use MS's proprietary packaged HDD. And the casing was specifically designed to make tampering difficult. MS's outlook is different though: they want you to be stuck with official peripherals. I still think that's crap, but it's not even on the evilometer compared with "selling" stuff that people can't use freely.

With the 360, even though it's possible to swap in unofficial hard drives with a bit of work, it's iffy. The console only supports hard drives in sizes that are officially available, and even then there's been no attempt to ensure compatibility with all hard drives. Some drives just don't get along with the 360, even if they're compatible technically.

LOL microsoft is no better to work with. I refuse to pay for downloaded movies, It does seem stupid that you can't download it a few times. The game DLC should be fine. You can share it on I think up to 4 consoles. My brother and I and a couple friends roatate buying map packs for COD everytime.

Games are indeed re-downloadable. I have full games, not just DLC, purchased digitally on my PS3. Not having to swap discs is nice, and not having to hear the optical drive run is nicer. I've got a HUGE list of purchases queued up and re-downloading now. But they're all games, no movies.

[Kompresshun]

The 360 slim is no different. You still have to use MS's proprietary packaged HDD. And the casing was specifically designed to make tampering difficult. MS's outlook is different though: they want you to be stuck with official peripherals. I still think that's crap, but it's not even on the evilometer compared with "selling" stuff that people can't use freely.

With the 360, even though it's possible to swap in unofficial hard drives with a bit of work, it's iffy. The console only supports hard drives in sizes that are officially available, and even then there's been no attempt to ensure compatibility with all hard drives. Some drives just don't get along with the 360, even if they're compatible technically.

It does piss me off quite a bit that MS does make you buy their crap, in almost every case for expansion. At least with a 250GB on board drive though and the ability to use 2 16GB flash drives(so you gain another 32GB), it's not too bad to deal with what they give you to work with. Now if you were to buy the 4GB slim, well it sucks to be that person, i'd rather spend the extra $100 than run out of space later and have to pay to upgrade.

[MinisterofDOOM]

A 4GB slim plus MS hdd ends up being $10 more than a 250GB model, so no big deal there. My roommate did this. I would, too, if I were in the market for a 360, because I prefer the matte finish of the 4GB over the glossy finish of the 250GB.

MS's big Xbox peripheral sin in my eyes is their proprietary wireless controller protocol. PS3 supports bluetooth. MS doesn't. And MS refuses to license that tech to anyone else, which means there are NO third-party wireless controllers for the 360. Remember the day when MadCatz sold controllers left and right for cheap? Not anymore. I never bought the off-brand controllers anyway because quality usually suffered, but plenty of other people did, and restricting options is never good for consumers.

[Kompresshun]

A 4GB slim plus MS hdd ends up being $10 more than a 250GB model, so no big deal there. My roommate did this. I would, too, if I were in the market for a 360, because I prefer the matte finish of the 4GB over the glossy finish of the 250GB.

MS's big Xbox peripheral sin in my eyes is their proprietary wireless controller protocol. PS3 supports bluetooth. MS doesn't. And MS refuses to license that tech to anyone else, which means there are NO third-party wireless controllers for the 360. Remember the day when MadCatz sold controllers left and right for cheap? Not anymore. I never bought the off-brand controllers anyway because quality usually suffered, but plenty of other people did, and restricting options is never good for consumers.

I hadn't researched it, that's not that bad then. Although I prefer shiny and pretty things

Yes I do remember those days very well, I've always had at least 2 name brand controllers and then the rest would all be off brand. Gamestop still offers off-brand(Mad-Catz rebranded as Gamestop brand) controllers for the 360, I don't recall if they have wireless though but I believe they do. Regardless of that though, I still think it's dumb to not even at least have bluetooth built in to the 360, I would much rather use a bluetooth headset of my choice than the wireless one that they offer.

Now I do like the fact that I can plug any wireless keyboard into my Xbox that has a USB receiver and use it with no issues. I've got a nice little Microsoft Arc keyboard that I keep beside the couch to use with it. I also hate the fact that they don't offer even basic internet browsing either, that would be VERY valuable to me.

[alms24sebring]

That is one reason why I never buy movies. I use something called 'Netflix' for movies and TV shows, etc.

Im glad that your still a PS3 fan but I can agree that yes that sucks, anyone would be pissed. I dont really understand all the technology but why would they only let you download it once? Is it for copying purposes? I feel that games would be worth more than movies and you can redownload those continuously. I guess you'll just have to cut losses on this one.

[MinisterofDOOM]

It was explained to me like this:
Sony is only authorized to sell one download of X movie per license by the copyright holder. So they pay for that license, and sell the user that license. If the movie is downloaded again, that's another license. Even if the user doesn't pay, Sony still does.

[Rex]

I discovered recently that video content purchased through iTunes is only DL'able once as well. Though (I think) it can be transferred to another device you have "authorized". Was there no "back up" process to allow you to back-up/restore the content?

[alms24sebring]

It was explained to me like this:
Sony is only authorized to sell one download of X movie per license by the copyright holder. So they pay for that license, and sell the user that license. If the movie is downloaded again, that's another license. Even if the user doesn't pay, Sony still does.

Ahh, that makes sense. They should have a backup feature for drastic situations, but I can see people trying to exploit that to share movies. The reason why Sony has no trust in their customers is because a lot people cannot be trusted, simple as that. It's definantly something that works against us true trustworthy people.

[krash]

The reason why Sony has no trust in their customers is because of the PSP.

FTFY.

Sorry to hear that dude. At least you can still get your games though, at 50 bucks a pop, that would have added up QUICK.

[Kompresshun]

I discovered recently that video content purchased through iTunes is only DL'able once as well. Though (I think) it can be transferred to another device you have "authorized". Was there no "back up" process to allow you to back-up/restore the content?

I've dealt with this tons of times and it's not as bad as it seems, you can authorize up to 5 machines to play the content back, and you can put it on any Apple device that has been synced to one of your authorized machines. If you use up all 5 autorizations and no longer have some of the machines authorized(or just don't need them to be) you can De-authorize all accounts, then re-authorize only the ones you need to be. I hate DRM, but at least Apple lets you work around it, they were also nice enough to let me re-download about 60 songs that I lost during a PC crash last year.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I discovered recently that video content purchased through iTunes is only DL'able once as well. Though (I think) it can be transferred to another device you have "authorized". Was there no "back up" process to allow you to back-up/restore the content?

There's a backup process, but we're talking about gigabytes of data here. I'd need an external USB HDD for that, and I don't have one.

[gearhead05]

I discovered recently that video content purchased through iTunes is only DL'able once as well. Though (I think) it can be transferred to another device you have "authorized". Was there no "back up" process to allow you to back-up/restore the content?

There's a backup process, but we're talking about gigabytes of data here. I'd need an external USB HDD for that, and I don't have one.

If you keep an eye on amazon, best buy or any other store that sells hdd's you can pick one up pretty cheap. The other day I saw a 1TB external hdd for like 70 bucks which is an awesome deal.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I have no need for one. I certainly shouldn't have to buy one to retain rights to media I already own.

[Jesda]

I empathize. Sony lives in a bubble where they still think they dominate the entertainment industry and the hardware to enjoy it. They're pulling stunts out of desperation, trying eagerly to hold on to an antiquated business model.

[zacmil]

Remember the day when MadCatz sold controllers left and right for cheap? Not anymore. I never bought the off-brand controllers anyway because quality usually suffered, but plenty of other people did, and restricting options is never good for consumers.

This is a little off topic, but Razer actually makes a 360 controller now. It is wired, but the cord is crazy long and (I'm assuming) super durable. Based on the experience I've had with my Razer mouse, I'd say that the quality is probably pretty good.


I do empathize with you; it seems like every Sony related experience I've had lately has kinda sucked. I really hate how insane some companies are getting with DRM. I actually feel like it's encouraging piracy more than it's preventing it. I mean, seriously, the person who is going to initially pirate their content is pretty likely to spend the time to try and find a way to circumvent the DRM. Then, when an honest consumer--such as yourself--comes along, they get treated like a criminal. I'd assume that this would cause a small(ish) group of honest consumers with the technical know-how to start pirating content so, if nothing else, they could give a big middle finger to the company in question.

[Encryptshun]

Just out of curiosity, is Sony's rationale for a one-time license consistent for media owned by Sony as well as media licensed to Sony from a 3rd party?

[MinisterofDOOM]

Remember the day when MadCatz sold controllers left and right for cheap? Not anymore. I never bought the off-brand controllers anyway because quality usually suffered, but plenty of other people did, and restricting options is never good for consumers.

This is a little off topic, but Razer actually makes a 360 controller now. It is wired, but the cord is crazy long and (I'm assuming) super durable. Based on the experience I've had with my Razer mouse, I'd say that the quality is probably pretty good.

Sadly the razer is actually MORE expensive than an MS 360 controller. $60 for a wired controller is pretty hard to swallow.

[Amays U G37S]

Damn mod... I worry about the same thing, and took gaming to the computer after failed attempts at xbox. Many times you can find the same games on PC. Ya the community is smaller, but you only pay internet fees, not internet fees and gaming fees.

I love console gaming, and it was absolute fun destroying rank 20+'s on BF2 and I was only rank 5-7. But the pure fact stuff like this happens that you read on the forums and stuff about potentially bricking your device (Wii) just because a software update happens really helps me be a windows gamer.

[4cefed]

Sorry MoD, but I learned this lesson about 15 years ago. Their attitude is "We're Sony, what are you going to do about it?" I don't give a dam how good anything they make is, I just won't buy it. If PS3s were free I wouldn't have one. Even retailers that sold sony stuff recommended against buying their stuff.

[alms24sebring]

wow I never knew Sony to have such a bad rep. They've always been good to me, except prices, but I get what I pay for.

[Red coupe]

Sony offers what they offer.

Hard to blame Sony because you didn't bother to figure out what you were buying, especially when they aren't stopping you from making back ups. If nothing else re-install old hard drive, delete your saved games and everything thing else but the videos and back up then.

[4cefed]

I'm sure this is a pointless question, but does the PS3 hard drive have any type of standard connectors or file system? With the right cables you can hook up a naked hard drive to a computer to retrieve files.

[Red coupe]

I'm sure this is a pointless question, but does the PS3 hard drive have any type of standard connectors or file system? With the right cables you can hook up a naked hard drive to a computer to retrieve files.

it is a standard SATA 2.5in hard drive, but I THINK its own format & file system.
Never actually plugged mine in though tbh.

[C-Kwik]

There's a backup process, but we're talking about gigabytes of data here. I'd need an external USB HDD for that, and I don't have one.

I would imagine you of all people here would have at least one extra internal HDD laying around. If so, you could easily use something like this:

http://www.apricorn.com/product_detail. ... mily&id=39

I have one because it made it easier to back-up HDD's for PC's I'm fixing for friends if the OS or some bit of hardware is dead. Of course, this is all in hindsight, but is there anything stopping you from putting the old drive back in and extracting the data?

Frankly though, since it is only available for DL once, I'd back them up on an external HDD or optical media just in case the PS3 HDD decides to take a poop. Treat them like your DVDs and CDs. You lose them, break them, etc., you're SOL. I backed up all my HD-DVD's because I'll lose access to them if my HD-DVD player and my BD/HDDVD combo drive fail. It also doesn't hurt that those back-ups now make up part of the collection on my HTPC but that's besides the point. =P However, the only Blu-Rays I backed up are those in a series so I can watch all the discs without having to change discs.