Something different ecu tuning for economy

[Q45tech]

http://hondatuningmagazine.com...onomy/

If we could run the engine at 15.7:1 air/fuel ratio, we could realize about two percent (as outlined above however, we don't feel that this is a good idea).

Correct maintenance is important. Make sure the oxygen sensor is working correctly.

The good news was that Ward's found Infiniti's ratings of 340 horsepower and 333 pound-feet of torque to be accurate. But upon grilling engineers, we learned that the 0-to-60-mph claim was achieved "in optimum atmospheric conditions" using "the lightest possible base cars, along with featherweight drivers," as opposed to plushbottom journos and their heavily optioned test cars

Place holder: Off topichttp://www.diabolicalperforman....htmlhttp://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/roadtests/37426/

[RobertsnewQ]

With EGR ON the stock q cruises at 15.2:1

When the EGR is OFF it cruises at 14.7:1 (more than a tiny bit of throttle turns off EGR)

If you turn off the O2 sensors, or just unplug them, it runs at around 14.8:1 (or at least mine does, this is probably very sensitive to MAF/engine condition)

I've played with the valve timing too, and I've noticed that if I turn it ON at 1800 rpm and OFF at 4600, the fuel economy improves. The stock tuning turns it OFF at 4200 no matter what, and only turns it ON below that only if the load is above a certain threshold.

[Q45tech]

When you observe people talking about how EGR is bad [and discoing it]and it hurts fuel economy................you know to place them in a "SPECIAL category"

When you gut the precats you decrease the EGR pressure and flow, so you may lose the 3- 4% fuel economy improvement the system proves.

ROUGHLY 1 MPG at highway cruise [light load].

Newer 4.5 with variable cams have somehow tweeked the system to get to 23 MPG vs our old 22 MPG..........a percent here and a percent there and you a few tens of million dollars later and you get 0.500000000000000000001 mpg improvement......rounded up = 1.0 MPG.

[RobertsnewQ]

Yes, and I've also found that having a light right foot is more important than anything else!

When I drive like a maniac my mileage gets down to 15 or even 14. If I 'put a tennis ball under the pedal' I can squeeze nearly 18 in mixed driving.

[DrewQ45]

Yes, and I've also found that having a light right foot is more important than anything else!

When I drive like a maniac my mileage gets down to 15 or even 14. If I 'put a tennis ball under the pedal' I can squeeze nearly 18 in mixed driving.

Damn you Robert! You put the pitchfork in my hand (delimited ECU) then you expect me not to drive like the Devil!

[maxnix]

When I drive like a maniac my mileage gets down to 15 or even 14. If I 'put a tennis ball under the pedal' I can squeeze nearly 18 in mixed driving.

While I certainly believe you, I get 17 - 18 mixed routinely with 93 octane. And sometimes I have the Jupiter foot. Cut and dicing in traffic is never good for fuel economy. Only thing worse is idling.
Modified by maxnix at 1:40 PM 5/4/2006

[Q45tech]

Robert: Can't find my list!

A18-A21-P01 is a 90 or 91 standard ecu? Looking for the perfect one to send to you.

Lot's depends on the BTU in the fuel, reductions here is a secret way to expand profits...............you can have a high octane premium that contains less BTU than a regular and you will find the refiners have learned to pass muster with way lower than you think BTU.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/apples.htm

Note the government used 125,000 BTU per gallon in the past

Now they are saying:Average Energy Content (btu per gallon)

Summer Winter Difference

114,500 112,500 1.7%

Energy Content (btu per gallon)

Minimum Maximum Difference

Summer 113,000 117,000 3.4%

Winter 108,500 114,000 4.8%

Now we have secretly seen a 13.2% drop in BTU which should translate to a 13.2% lower MPG.

INSTEAD of just OCTANE the PUMP should show BTU per gallon so the public can evaluate what they are buying.

[Q45tech]

Could it be that the BTU decline is a major reason why the old EPA test proceedure OVERESTIMATES the real world MPG by 20% when vehicle manufacturers are allowed to use SPECIAL GASOLINE custom blended to conduct the in lab MPG test and the PUBLIC cannot buy the same gasoline at the pump?

Now tell me again who is responsible for the decline in BTU per gallon......secret tax on consumers and profit booster for refiners......it does take less oil to make a gallon of gasoline now than 20 years ago so that is good but not if you get 20% less MPG on the product!

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/in...h.pdf

US crude-oil production capacity, about 5 million barrels per day, is accomplished with about 510,000 oil wells, averaging 10.5 barrels per well per day. (That's more than half of all the producing oil wells in the world.

World Oil list of wells by country in 2000. The country with the most wells, after the US, is Russia at about 110,000; then China with around 80,000, and Canada with 68,000. World total producing oil wells is about 880,000.) Saudi capacity, at about 8-9 million barrels per day, is from 1500 wells — averaging more than 5,000 barrels per well per day. The best well in the onshore 48 states is in Grant Canyon Field, Nevada, producing about 4000 barrels per day from sucrosic Devonian dolomites in a small fault block. UPDATE: 1997 discoveries in the Williston Basin are producing up to 6,000 barrels per day from Mississippian Lodgepole carbonate mounds. These are the best wells in the onshore 48 states in decades -- but the Gulf of Mexico is the US hot spot for current exploration and production. THE FACT THAT THE US ALREADY HAS 510,000 wells is just one reason why we cannot simply "drill more wells" to achieve a fictional energy independence, as many Americans naively suggest. Most of the oil in the US has already been found and produced - the peak of US oil production happened in 1970, and it can NOT be achieved again.

http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html

[RobertsnewQ]

PO1 is 1990 std.

[Q45tech]

OK got what I was looking for. Could you explain again the differences in 90 vs 91 as to the stock 4th gear map vs 1-3 rd gears maps.

Wish you would make/PUBLISH a DETAILED desired mod check list for maps.

Something you said about VVT engagement at 1800 rpms, I thought it was always engaged by the rise in oil pressure? Load function addition?

At cruise load AC on/off 1800-2500 is VVT engaged.........is the 4600 cut designed to minimize cycling in a downshift.......What about a missed 1st gear down shift above 22 mph...........stuck in 2nd [2200 RPM] until the flow starts [on CAM] AT 3500? WHAT IS LOAD POINT THAT ENGAGES VVT VS RPM.

[RobertsnewQ]

I don't have all the stuff on the maps here at work but basically the 1990 has a tiny bit more advance and a tiny bit less fuel in the high-load areas of some of the maps.

It's not enough to make much difference. Less than the difference between USDM/JDM, for example.

As for the VVT, the load point is in TP(Theoretical Pulsewidth) so I can't really translate it to throttle position, but it is mostly RPM-independent. There is no ON rpm in the stock ECU, only OFF - at 4200. It turns ON only by load.

The TP number for VVT activation is 45, and the max TP for fuel & ignition maps is 72, so it's a little more than half load (which varies by rpm).

I don't think oil pressure has anything to do with it, just the ECU command to the solenoid which uses oil pressure...

What information do you need on the maps, exactly? I have TONS of stuff but it's not always easy to present in a format that makes sense.

[Q45tech]

THANKS.

I wonder how much gasoline changes from the refinery to the car fuel tank and how much it degrades per day and from exposure to ethanol and water...................the VOC stored in evap system?

I have to create a organic sniffing IC that can evaluate and identify gasoline components on the fly as you fill the tank................... to select the map.

http://www.tipmagazine.com/tip...6.pdfh ... Sc...=1964

[DrewQ45]

I don't have all the stuff on the maps here at work but basically the 1990 has a tiny bit more advance and a tiny bit less fuel in the high-load areas of some of the maps.

It's not enough to make much difference. Less than the difference between USDM/JDM, for example.

As for the VVT, the load point is in TP(Theoretical Pulsewidth) so I can't really translate it to throttle position, but it is mostly RPM-independent. There is no ON rpm in the stock ECU, only OFF - at 4200. It turns ON only by load.

The TP number for VVT activation is 45, and the max TP for fuel & ignition maps is 72, so it's a little more than half load (which varies by rpm).

I don't think oil pressure has anything to do with it, just the ECU command to the solenoid which uses oil pressure...

What information do you need on the maps, exactly? I have TONS of stuff but it's not always easy to present in a format that makes sense.

When I sent my ECU for upgrade, I kept my stock 90' and sent a 92'. I've always wondered if that was a wise idea, however, I felt that I could always switch back to the original ECU if any issues such as emmisions arose. Robert, is that chip you installed an EPROM? Isn't the entire factory mapping wiped out with the IC change or do other components on the boards (90 vs >) differ and affect functionality?

...Drew..

Tech: Email me if you want another copy of the ECU pdf and I'll respond with said attachment.

[Q45tech]

Why one would want at least 2 maps oem for [a specific year] and a ROBERT MAP at the minumum............I think the 8 map [32x8 =256] is the finest idea ever.

Emission are never a problem because they are never tested WOT nor above 2500 rpms.

Don't confuse WOT [high load changes] with the normal partial load parameters left unchanged.

What I am trying to decide is which 90-93 and version works best at low load.

[QShip]

I must say that Robert is the man. Anyone that is capable of having Dennis even thinking about having his ecu tuned by them is special.

[RobertsnewQ]

All the ECUs are the same hardware-wise, with the exception of the TCS boards. I've looked very. very closely at them and they're all the same.

I just replace the EPROM, either with another one, or with a board that can contain several programs. You could just plug a stock one in the socket if you want. Email me if you need one.

[Q45tech]

I've had an aftermarket tuned ECU in my Q since 1993 [~~33,000]..........it was a prototype from Dinan, unfortunately they got out of the non BMW ecu tweeking business and left Nissan to JWT.

Somewhere in the world there are 2 others of this tune.

When I decide what I want, hopefully Robert can read the Dinan Prom and see if it is inferior or equal to his or other's...............not really much you can do to parameters beyond a certain point ALL FUEL DEPENDENT.

I'm not sure what California gasoline was like back in 1992........my car has rarely even seen MTBE fuels.

Dinan promised 307 HP and 338* lb/ft [310 tails at 2500 and 5,000] with no other mods.............but that was on their engine.

* This seems a little aggressive so maybe 325-330 at seal level at 60F

While we are on Dinan these white papers might be of interest:http://www.dinancars.com/whitepapersFil ... .asp?ID=34

[BlueC]

Q45Tech,

Recently I took your advice and found a gas station that doesnt not sell ethanol blended premium gas. Since pretty much every station up here sells it with 10% mix, it was hard to find, but I eventually found a Mobil station selling ethanol free gas.

I've already noticed a difference since then. Car starts up better (doesn't struggle) and it seems to be running more smoothly. I'll check the mileage soon to see if that changed much. What other things can I benefit from by switching to non-ethanol mixed gas? You seem to know this stuff!

[Q45tech]

Do yourself a favor, now find some ISOHEET [Isopropyl Alcohol 97%] and add 12 ounces to your non ethanolized fuel to remove any standing water at the bottom of your tank.

This $1 every 100 gallons of gasoline used will extend the life of fuel components.

[Q45tech]

"During 1995, 25 percent of all gasoline consumed in the United States was reformulated, rising to 32 percent in 1997. Because the additives contained in reformulated gasoline have much lower carbon shares than typical gasoline, the national average emissions coefficient for motor gasoline has declined by about 0.25 percent over the past 3 years (Table B1). At the same time, the heat content of gasoline additives is lower than that of standard gasoline. Thus, an average gallon of gasoline sold today has a lower energy content than an average gallon sold 4 years ago. Holding car weight, horsepower, and miles traveled constant will require increased consumption of gasoline."

"By the summer of 1996, most reformulated gasoline no longer contained any tertiary amyl methyl ether (TAME) or any ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE). Nearly all additive used in reformulated gasoline was MTBE, the additive with the lowest emissions coefficient (Table B3). "

"ALCOHOL % IN GASOLINE TEST KIT:

We've had a number of calls from auto service technicians requesting help to test the gasoline in a car that may have been misfueled. Now that the EPA has mandated the substitution of ethanol for MTBE as the oxygenate, automotive technicians are faced with yet another diagnostic challenge. This kit will help determine if the alcohol content is the problem without having to send a fuel sample to a test lab. Kit includes :

• Easy to follow gasoline testing procedures

• Precision 50 ml Graduated Cylinder

• 150ml Sample beaker

• Fuel siphon.

• Safety Items, includes glasses & gloves. $39.95

http://www.ridgenet.net/~hideseng/prod0 ... es...r.htm

" As gasoline ages, it may lose some of the more volatile hydrocarbon components through evaporation or oxidation. 'Stale' gasoline can degrade performance, possibly cause costly engine damage, and may render the fuel illegal for use in competition. "http://www.ridgenet.net/~hideseng/g-01.htm

List of racing fuel densities:http://www.ridgenet.net/~hideseng/dc_list.htm

http://www.carrito.net/hp_calc.htm

The FIA's World Rally Championship is the easiest to describe: Shell is the current fuel supplier. Priority drivers (i.e., the top guns) must use this 95-octane unleaded gasoline. Lesser ranks can get their fuel at commercial gasoline stations noted in the route book. Fuel characteristics and refueling strategies are far down the list of why WRC is so exciting.

Sports-car venues also depend on organizer-supplied unleaded gasoline. Octanes vary from venue to venue, but the official Sunoco Unleaded GT100 of IMSA's GT3 Cup Challenge is typical. It's a street-legal gasoline, with Research Octane Number of 105 and Motor Octane Number of 95 yielding its Antiknock Index, (R+M)/2, of 100. This gasoline's density, its specific gravity, is 0.764. That is, it's a tad more than 76 percent the density of water, roughly midrange for gasolines cited in the Bosch Automotive Handbook"He and other NASCAR engine specialists will continue to rev 358-cu.-in. ohv V-8s beyond 9000 rpm, and do it for hundreds of miles of racing. They'll continue to use Sunoco Supreme Leaded (RON 114, MON 110; specific gravity 0.715; like 100LL, blue in color).

The ONE IMPORTANT THING TO NOTICE IS THE CONSTANT REFERAL TO MON!

Notice these fuels range 95 to 110 vs pump gasoline which may be BELOW 85!

[Q45tech]

To formulate a 100 octane 95 MON gasoline costs about 30-40 cents more per gallon at the refinery vs a Conventional 85 MON PREMIUM.

[DrewQ45]

Do yourself a favor, now find some ISOHEET [Isopropyl Alcohol 97%] and add 12 ounces to your non ethanolized fuel to remove any standing water at the bottom of your tank.

This $1 every 100 gallons of gasoline used will extend the life of fuel components.

I've been using ISOHEET ever since the GA Ethanol notice. It's sad that at almost 200k and never an injector issue, that I have to worry about water in my gas now. Hopefully they will redesign injectors on future vehicles so they will not be affected by ethanol.

[Q45tech]

Relax, a field trip to the tank farm shows they are ready, but don't have a firm date as yet thanks to US shortage of Ethanol. The May 6 phase out of mandatory oxygenates stopped the Georgia court appeal [mute now].

They will be required to post stickers on the pump when they blend.

Not to say Summer gasoline will be any great product.

12 ounces of IsoHeet raises 93.0 octane to 93.084..........just as 12 ounces of any oxygenate does in 22.5 gallons.

Save the $1 or stock up................careful IsoHeet is used in METH production don't have a garage full of it................you are paying $11+ per gallon..............

The better solution would be to install a water separating auxillary fuel filter prior to oem!

[litlchi]

Ouch, way too technical of a thread for me. Though this might be a dumb question, but where do you get IsoHeet? I'm assuming it's not the same 95% isopropanyl you can get at the drug store is it...

[BlueC]

Ouch, way too technical of a thread for me. Though this might be a dumb question, but where do you get IsoHeet? I'm assuming it's not the same 95% isopropanyl you can get at the drug store is it...

I bought 2 12oz containers at wal-mart for $2.

[qsiguy]

what department do they sell it in, and is it labeled "IsoHeet"?

[BlueC]

what department do they sell it in, and is it labeled "IsoHeet"?

Automotive section. It's easy to find, red bottle, labeled Isoheet.

[BlueC]

Maybe its just a placebo effect, but after adding in the IsoHeet today and going on my 2nd tank of non-ethanol premium gas, the car just seems like its running much better. Seems more reponsive power-wise too. I think the biggest thing is that I know it'll be good quality gas going through my engine now.

[Q45tech]

Changes have a good chance of cleaning up some deposits. In theory you should be able to feel a 3% [minimum] difference in engine output at WOT between the two fuels.

[mcrews]

When was the last time "we" (the collective borges) thanked you guys for being SO FU**ING SMART!!!!!!!!!TUrely and humbly, THANK YOU!!!!

Mark