someone should try this

[bcar240]

I was reading a popular science and I found this article. http://www.popsci.com/popsci/futurecar/ ... 64,00.html It is a long article, but basically, this guy over in India takes a dremel and gouges shapes into the top of the combustion chamber, and it creates a lot of turbulence in there so the air and fuel mix more evenly. He claims it makes the engine so stable that it can idle super low. So low that you don't even need a transmission, you can just drive around in 3rd gear. Also makes an engine a whole lot more effiencient. Seems like a good idea, too bad no one takes him seriously. Someone should try that with their KA! Just make sure you don't cut so deep that it blows your head apart.

[xns]

That would be cool!

[bcar240]

it is supposed to increase fuel economy like %30 or something like that. I would try it, but I don't think my battery dremel would get very far...

[cory2081]

wow, very interesting and informative. I know that there are many different combustion chamber designs, all with different shaped and different sized "squish" areas. I think this guy is onto something for sure. I'd love to try this. It would be very simple to do. Makes perfect sense to me, I'm sure that it works. Wonder how much more HP you'd get on a stock KA?? It has to give HP gains.

[Dattebayo]

economy does not equal hp gain my little newbies

[cory2081]

LMAO, Newbie?? I don't think so. Efficiency yields HP gains in most cases, especially when it comes to a cylinder head b/c that's where most HP gains are to be had my friend. Although, only doing this modification may not yield gains, BUT, consider what it may do for a forced induction engine. An extra 1-2 PSI on pump gas=more HP. For N/A people with big cams, they could get some of thier gas mileage back....and maybe up the compression a little more. It would be interesting to see just how much of a difference this can make in all aspects. Just a specific head design that pops out in my head is the Honda CVCC. You should take a look at one of those sometime, pretty interesting.

[stfuad]

I think it'd be kinda cool to get HEMI cylinder head on a KA :p

[Ubernoober]

1: PopSci hasn't reported effectively on real science for more than 8 years.

2: The potential in the design is there, but the article surrounds it with pseudo-science. It would be nice to read an informed and unbiased opinion of the tech.

3: The article avoids mentioning the various routes big manufacturers have taken in the intervening years (squish, tumble, swirl, CVCC and on and on).

4: If I hear one more thing about how great a HEMI is, I'm gonna freak. In the 70's it was a powerful option due to the fact that the design was a small improvement over the quench heads available back then, but the major improvement came from precision machining of the head... including the combustion chambers. Today, any 4-valve engine (Hint hint... KA) has a combustion chamber design very similar to that of a HEMI. They tend to call it a "pent-roof" design. So now Dodge has a 350 ci engine that makes 345 HP. Big woop. Talk to Chevy and watch them laugh their butts off as they slide into their 420 HP Z06 powered by the same displacement. In the past HEMI = cool and good. Today HEMI = marketing.

[IveBeenBad]

4: If I hear one more thing about how great a HEMI is, I'm gonna freak. In the 70's it was a powerful option due to the fact that the design was a small improvement over the quench heads available back then, but the major improvement came from precision machining of the head... including the combustion chambers. Today, any 4-valve engine (Hint hint... KA) has a combustion chamber design very similar to that of a HEMI. They tend to call it a "pent-roof" design. So now Dodge has a 350 ci engine that makes 345 HP. Big woop. Talk to Chevy and watch them laugh their butts off as they slide into their 420 HP Z06 powered by the same displacement. In the past HEMI = cool and good. Today HEMI = marketing.

Can I have your babies

[Spongebob]

This is really interesting.

[ILikeMy240sx]

4: If I hear one more thing about how great a HEMI is, I'm gonna freak. In the 70's it was a powerful option due to the fact that the design was a small improvement over the quench heads available back then, but the major improvement came from precision machining of the head... including the combustion chambers. Today, any 4-valve engine (Hint hint... KA) has a combustion chamber design very similar to that of a HEMI. They tend to call it a "pent-roof" design. So now Dodge has a 350 ci engine that makes 345 HP. Big woop. Talk to Chevy and watch them laugh their butts off as they slide into their 420 HP Z06 powered by the same displacement. In the past HEMI = cool and good. Today HEMI = marketing.

Amen :ylsuper

[Iwant240insteadofP/U]

not the most intelligent Nico viewer but uhh while this would possible have benifits in fuel economy wouldnt increasing the volume of the head increase the size of the combustion chamber and lower compression? Drilling out space in your head would make you slower wouldnt it?

[cory2081]

I took a look at the KA head that I have laying around. The squish area is .380" on the intake side and .250" on the exhaust side of the combustion chamber. If I get bored I'll calculate what percentage of the surface area of the piston that covers :P

[bcar240]

I think the purpose of the modifications are to allow the fuel and air to mix better so that the engine can then be modified for higher compression without knocking. Although it appears the effect is so profound that it makes a difference in a normal engine as well. I guess just gouging the head would lower the compression if you didn't modify the engine to make it higher...

but Ubernoober you are right about ps. they have been going downhill as of late. They focus more on things that are "cool" and advertising then any real science. I remember a while ago they had an article on imports, and they showed a supra, 240, and a civic. Article seemed like something out of the fast and the furious, at least they tried :rolleyes . But how dare they rag on the KA! I can probably find the link if anyone wants to see it.

[cory2081]

Well, yes, it would slightly lower the compression b/c you are adding CC's to the combustion chamber. But, if his theory is right, and it does help to burn the fuel that is normally "trapped" in that squish area, then it would make the engine more efficient. I'm game for another 10-20% increase in fuel econonomy, even if I dont reap any performance gains. It may help those of you who live in areas where they have emmisions testing, maybe you can squeeze some extra ponies without failing the test. Who knows, right now it's just theory, it isn't proven.

[Chingon]

i read the whole article. It's pretty interesting. The guy seems to be onto something.

[Nismo_Freak]

4: If I hear one more thing about how great a HEMI is, I'm gonna freak. In the 70's it was a powerful option due to the fact that the design was a small improvement over the quench heads available back then, but the major improvement came from precision machining of the head... including the combustion chambers. Today, any 4-valve engine (Hint hint... KA) has a combustion chamber design very similar to that of a HEMI. They tend to call it a "pent-roof" design. So now Dodge has a 350 ci engine that makes 345 HP. Big woop. Talk to Chevy and watch them laugh their butts off as they slide into their 420 HP Z06 powered by the same displacement. In the past HEMI = cool and good. Today HEMI = marketing.

405 hp Z06 and it's a 346cid engine

Even more impressive is Nissan's SR16VE N1 engine that makes 197 hp using a 1.6L engine.

B18C6/7 - 200 hp / 1.8L - 111.11 hp / LSR16VE N1 - 197 hp / 1.6L - 123.13 hp / LF20 - 240 hp / 2.0L - 120 hp / LLS6 - 405 hp / 5.7L - 71.05 hp / L

Albeit the N1 engine is about as rare as winning the lottery lol. Efficiency definately lies within smaller displacement engines.

[cory2081]

"Efficiency definately lies within smaller displacement engines."

Maybe so, maybe not. You have to consider that all of the engines listed have to pass certain emmisions criteria. A big V8 will obviously put out more pollutants, so, the manufacturer must sacrifice HP. BUT, HP is just a number, torque is a REAL measurement. Let's see Torque/L

[drifter_for_life06]

that would be a good idea. Does would it increase pwoer too?

[Chingon]

I think that efficiency lies in the number of cylinders per liter. Have you seen toyota's 3.0L v10 that's gonna make 200hp/ltr na?