Some things never change: Infiniti outruns Lexus.

[Jesda]

http://www.automobilemag.com/r...ls460/

Quote »According to Lexus, the very aerodynamic (0.26 Cd) LS would easily reach 170 mph were it not electronically limited to only 130 mph.[/quote]Proof that the L badge is for wussies.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Psh, the Maxima's cd is .28 and it's a 3-year-older, "non-premium" badge. If that's the only thing worth mentioning on that car, Toyota is in far sadder shape than even I realized.

[pito11213]

What in the article equates to lexus getting outrun? In terms of what, the top speed? I saw nothing but praise for lexus for the past 17 years as stated in the article.

The ls has always been a different brand with a different target audience. I think its a big step forward for them. Lets see if infiniti will follow suite. Infiniti is doing real good with the G platform and it is well deserved.

I prefer the 99 lexus GS platform oppossed to the new one that kind of looks like everything else.

[Q45tech]

Lexus learned like BMW and MB did on their largest models that H rated tires have some serious ride, noise, and longevity improvements.

V rated and higher need a stronger cap ply to control expansion [tire growth] as you exceed 130 mph.........this cap ply is the cause of serious cold set [flat spotting] vibration which has no place on a lux car.

In Germany they just retune the speed limiter and substitute W/Y tires.

I've run Michelin 235 H tires for the last 8 years and never missed the fact I have to stop at 130 mph.

[Falkdesigns]

Infiniti (and I) wish they had a car that was even close to the new LS. The new LS is amazing, especially for the money. And I'd say having a CD .02 points lower than a Maxima which is half the size (practically) is an impressive thing.

[Rex]

Lexus makes a nice car, it lacks some passion, but I truely believe that's more a reflection of the average Lexus owner than the car itself.

I would have gladly bought a Lexus when I got my first Q, but they wanted nearly twice as much and nothing I could find told me it was worth twice as much. Unless I planned on reselling it.

I blame Ralph Nader for any speed limited cars, but I guess that's just the redneck in me .

[pito11213]

I agree. Even after having my ls for a while I can say that the ls was definately geared for refined luxury. Solid feeling, smooth shifting and well built interior. The q had the more grunt power feel to it. The ls just seems to do it without letting you know its doing it.

The new lexus IS is pretty impressive as well.

[Q45tech]

Since tires are 90% of handling [assuming equal weight]. Springs, shocks, sway bars make up most of the rest.

Easy [not necessarily cheap] to retune any of the top of the line sedans to match the best of the others.

[Jesda]

What in the article equates to lexus getting outrun?

Uhh, the part that I quoted?

[pito11213]

I'm sure the LS even though it is limited to 130, would get to it faster than the Q. Then the Q if not governed would eventually catch up and keep going. But would it matter since the LS already pulled away.

I know how infamous the Q is from a rolling start of 60 mph all the way to 140 but I don't think the LS would be a slug at those speeds especially with the vvt-i technology they have now.

I wonder what Caddy will be bringing to the table soon to compete with these new monsters. I really do love that CTS-V though. But that M5 is too much for it.

[Jesda]

Oh, I have no doubts that with a new V8 and twice the gears, the Lexus would absolutely soar to 100.

I spend a lot of time driving on absolutely barren American highways, and a 130mph limit would be obnoxious, especially on what is supposed to be a German-fighting world-beating supersedan. [I usually sustain 120 but spurt up to 140.]

IMHO, the LS peaked with the second-generation LS400 -- a beautiful, quick, and flawless everyday car.

[pito11213]

Yeah, the LS430 is ok but too luxury for me. The fastest I have gone in my LS is 120 and that was on a stretch going to atlantic city. It felt just as solid and smooth as if it were at 80mph. It is a good every day car I agree. Good interior room with nice luxuries. Good enough trunk space to meet my needs. All I did was change the radio but it sounds superb with the factory pioneer speaker system.

I do like the fact that there is good aftermarket support for the suspension. I do believe that the new LS is impressive but it is yet to be proven as a "drivers" car.

[MinisterofDOOM]

And I'd say having a CD .02 points lower than a Maxima which is half the size (practically) is an impressive thing.

Except that size has next to nothing to do with drag.

[Jesda]

I thought the factory system was Nakamichi, or did they change to Pioneer in 1992?

I pretty much agree with your assessment of the original LS400. I thought it was competent, smooth, refined, agreeable, and reasonably powerful. Lots of room and cool gauges too. It just wasn't crazy enough for me. The Q gave me twice the crazy for half the price.

[pito11213]

The nakamichi system was an option. But look at the standard system in my 92. Pioneer headunit with tape player. 6 speaker system including door tweeters and a 8" sub in the rear deck. 6 cd changer in trunk.

I agree with the price but cheaper infiniti's make up for that sale price in parts prices. I got my LS for a pretty damn good price. I have been impressed by it. Maybe someday ill be back in the q but it would probably be the y33.

[TgduMg]

Quote »According to Lexus, the very aerodynamic (0.26 Cd) LS would easily reach 170 mph were it not electronically limited to only 130 mph.[/quote]Not only would it reach it, it would surpass it. With OEM diameter tires, the 1UR-FSE 4.6 V8 is surely strong enough to attain 6400 rpm in sixth gear (1.00). That would propel the slippery LS 460 to 177 mph. The engine speed at 180 mph would be 5350 rpm in seventh (0.82) and 4500 rpm in gear number eight (0.69).

http://www.geocities.com/z_design_studio/ or http://www.f-body.org/gears/

I'm sure the LS even though it is limited to 130, would get to it faster than the Q. Then the Q if not governed would eventually catch up and keep going. But would it matter since the LS already pulled away.

Oh, I have no doubts that with a new V8 and twice the gears, the Lexus would absolutely soar to 100.

The sales manager at the local Lexus dealership told me the pull from 100 mph is just incredible.

Infiniti (and I) wish they had a car that was even close to the new LS. The new LS is amazing, especially for the money.

The engine is amazing as it makes lots of power for its displacement yet still manages to get decent EPA numbers. The 4.8 liter BMW V8 makes 360 hp and ft-lbs @ 6300 and 3400 rpm respectively employing Valvetronic and Double-VANOS.

Mercedes bests the the Lexus peak horsepower by two but uses 5.5 liters of displacement to do so. The V8 engine of the most recent Q actually makes 396 hp, but I'm referring to Maserati's Quattroporte. The M-Q's mpg ratings are 12 city, 15 highway for the 4.2 liter.

Nissan can easily make an Infiniti that can go toe to toe with the new LS 460. But how many of the people in that segment of the market would buy it?

Yeah the new LS can be optioned with one Maybach type rear seat, Advanced Parking Guidance feature, so on and so forth, etc.

Nissan is fully capable of building a line of cars that will do everything the new LS 460 and LS 460 L can. The question is, do they really need to?

Maybe. But I would think that having something to compete with the base LS would be enough for right now. Basically with a 385-hp VK45HR.

After all, Infiniti is a car for the driver.

The new LS is nice, but the G50 is still my favorite.

Danisiti 1
Modified by TgduMg at 4:15 PM 10/28/2006

[MinisterofDOOM]

After all, Infiniti is a car for the driver.

Nailed it. I don't need a place to put my Grey Poupon.

Also, I don't doubt that Infiniti could get a lot more power out of the engine already in the Q. The VQ-DE makes nearly the same power the VK does (300 hp). If the VK were pushed as hard as the VQ-DE or VQ-HR, it could approach 400 horses with ease.

The engine speed at 180 mph would be 5350 rpm in seventh (0.82) and 4500 rpm in gear number eight (0.69).

8 gears. Might as well throw on some Kenworth badges and install a split rear end. Stupid.

[FarFetched]

Quote »8 gears. Might as well throw on some Kenworth badges and install a split rear end. Stupid[/quote]It is just to impress ignoramus people .Cheers!

[BlueC]

If someone handed you a LS460, you wouldn't be complaining.....

[TgduMg]

Oops. I forgot to include these stats...

Quote »LS 460 test data from Road And TrackEquipped with variable intake- and exhaust-valve timing (VVT-iE), this 4.6-liter powerplant, whose fuel system uses both port and direct injection, develops a healthy 380 bhp and 367 lb.-ft. of torque, which translate to a 0-60 time of 5.6 seconds and a quarter-mile time of 14 sec. flat — that's quite respectable for a car weighing almost 4500 lb.

LS 460 test data from Edmunds.comOur test car accelerated from zero to 60 mph in 5.8 seconds, an admirable figure but slower than the 5.4 seconds claimed by the factory. We couldn't match the claimed quarter-mile time of 13.8 seconds either — 14.2 seconds was our best run.

2006 M45 test data from Road And TrackA quick look at the numbers shows the 4000-lb. M45 is no slouch, blazing to 60 mph in 5.3 seconds and through the quarter mile in 13.8 sec. at 101.6 mph. It accomplishes this with fluid ease, the engine and transmission working together seamlessly to deliver smooth, linear acceleration throughout the powerband.

2006 M45 test data from Edmunds.comAt the track, that drivetrain combines with the M's big 19-inch wheels to get the sedan from zero to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds, and through the quarter-mile in 14.4 seconds at 99.6 mph. Quick by anybody's standard.

[/quote]Simply install the Y50-M45's 3.36 rear gearset to make the F50 every bit as quick.

There are some frighteningly quick IS 350 time slips posted on dragtimes.com though.

If someone handed you a LS460, you wouldn't be complaining.....

I definitely wouldn't be complaining. It would become my daily driver and door ding catcher for my necessary errand runs.

Danisiti 1

[FarFetched]

If someone handed you a LS460, you wouldn't be complaining.....

Dream on

[Jesda]

If someone handed you a LS460, you wouldn't be complaining.....

No complaint from me. I could sell it, buy a Cadillac XLR, and blow the change on coke and whores.

[qship96]

there really is a difference between coke and pepsi.....

[FarFetched]

there really is a difference between coke and pepsi.....

You can't do blow using pepsi, it has to be coke!

[TgduMg]

Also, I don't doubt that Infiniti could get a lot more power out of the engine already in the Q. The VQ-DE makes nearly the same power the VK does (300 hp). If the VK were pushed as hard as the VQ-DE or VQ-HR, it could approach 400 horses with ease.

While watching an older episode of Horsepower TV this morning, I played around with a calculator a little bit. The Horsepower guys baselined a 3-valve Mustang GT and got 255-hp on the dyno from the 300-hp rated 4.6. A 15% drivetrain loss.

I remembered that Rob's (rsiwicki) best dyno run netted him 289-hp at the rear wheels. This is what the numbers are.

If a vehicle was experiencing only a fifteen percent drivetrain loss, 340 horses would translate to 289 at the rear wheels.

If the Rsiwicki Edition Q45 is suffering a twenty percent drivetrain loss, well 360 would equal 288-hp at the rear wheels.

Rex (not that Rex). You sir are in possession of a monster.

The new LS 460 could surely get much quicker acceleration times, but it being a Lexus I'm sure the transmission and engine electronics are programmed for nearly imperceptible shifts.

Let's hear it for $20 a barrel oil.



Danisiti 1

[elwesso]

Its been said a few times and ill say it again. I really dont thinkthe VK makes much more power than the VH... maybe a little (due to looser tolerances) ubt thats it.

[Rex]

For a "monster" it sure does make me smile every time .

When figuring drive train loss, did you allow any difference for an AT over a manual? And then for a Level 10 AT over a stock AT?

[elwesso]

as far as drivetrain losses, the L10 is gonna be the same as the stock, especially since you dont have a billet TC.

[TgduMg]

For a "monster" it sure does make me smile every time .

When figuring drive train loss, did you allow any difference for an AT over a manual? And then for a Level 10 AT over a stock AT?

Nah. Fifteen percent just seems to be the number thrown around most often. I did the twenty percent calculation as a worst case scenario for good measure.

A good monster to have indeed.

Danisiti 1

[TgduMg]

More bad news. Road and Track conducted their acceleration test of the new LS on a 101 degree day.

In 55 to 60 degree weather the LS 460 would probably be a solid mid thirteen second runner in the 1/4 mile.

It's time for Nissan to complement its port injected VK-series engine with the addition of direct injection.

Danisiti 1
Modified by TgduMg at 11:00 AM 10/31/2006