Some more upper timing chain questions--I need help ASAP!

[MarkEmark]

First off--sorry for all of the seemingly endless questions; i've been busy with my car lately!

Okay..so I was stupid and didn't put the engine at TDC on #1 before I did the install...which isn't actually necessary if everything is done perfectly and nothing is touched. However, I like to be 100% safe.

Heres how my car lies:Distributor is off completely, all plugs/wires are off, cam sprocket cover is off, upper timing chain/tensioner/BOTH guides are off.

Now, the new chain has three special links on it. one is supposed to line up with the idler sprocket punch mark, one is supposed to line up with the left cam sprocket punch mark, and the last one with the right cam sprocket punch mark. They all do. Is this enough insurance to say that everything (the crank/lower timing chain) and the upper timing chain/sprockets/camshafts are fully in-snync? Obviously i can't tell because the engine's not on TDC, and the pics in my FSM are all at TDC on number one.

If this isn't a 100% indication that everything is the way it should be, if I were to put the engine on TDC for #1, ie, rotated it using the crank pulley bolt, and left the distributor out, and left the upper timing chain off, could I then align the two cam sprockets, attached to the cams, to line up with the other 2 special links, and assume everything was at TDC assuming it looked like this book picture (see pic).?

http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/121-2182_IMG.JPG

http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/121-2183_IMG.JPG

Then I could align the distributor gear to how it is shown to be aligned when installing it in the engine if the engine is at TDC on number one, and call it a day? It seems to make quite a bit of sense...assuming it's TDC verified by the crank pulley, and the link on the timing chain is lined up to the idler sprocket, and the other 2 are lined up with the 2 cam sprockets...(see pic)

http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/121-2184_IMG.JPG

http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/121-2185_IMG.JPG

Or is this all useless and should I just accept that because those three links line up, everything is how it should be? I just want to be 100% positive everything is synchronized

Sorry, but all of this stuff is confusing the hell out of me.

Someone (who knows what they're talking about) please help!

[robertwb70]

sounds like you just R+R the upper timing chain-as long as nothing else moved and you put the new chain on exactly the same as the old one you are fine-if the crank has been turned all bets are off

and if your car had the upper guide on the top chain take it off while you're in there and leave it off-it's not required(or even installed on newer models) and is often the source of strange noises that cause people undue stress and unesessary timing chain replacement

[AzurE]

turn the crank by hand a few times to make sure you dont have any valves trying kiss the pistons and you will prob find that all the dots and links will all line up when the crank is at tdc sooner or later...at which point all valves on #1 cyl will be closed which is fairly important when you get stab the distributor.

note however that it is possible to install the top chain backwards...know what i mean ?

[MarkEmark]

Nothing has moved in relation to eachother--it's just that it's not at TDC. Why can I not place the idler sprocket at TDC by turning the crank by hand, then use the chain to line up the 2 camshaft sprockets/camshafts, and then install the distributor? It makes good sense to me, in theory anyway. (Also, you can only put the chain on one (logical) way, that is, the "special" links are only on one side of the chain, and they obviously point toward the front of the engine.)

I'm aware of the guides--that's the reason i wanted to remove the guides/install the new chain all at once.

Robert-What do you mean by R+R, i can't tell from context. If the chain right now lines up perfectly with the idler sprocket and the other 2 camshaft sprockets, isn't this the fool-proof way to know that everything is synchronized? There's only one way that all three links can line up...right?!?

I think I'm going to install the chain, keep the distributor out, rotate it a few times to get it to TDC on no.1, and if it looks like it does in the pictures of the FSM, then I'll set the distributor gear to what it should be at TDC on the no.1, install it, and go from there.

Marc

[robertwb70]

R+R=remove and replace

the links on the chain won't line back up untill after I don't know how many turns-the links aren't evenly spaced so it's easy to think you screwed up when the marks don't line up next time around-if you didn't move the bottom chain the and the top chain all lines up that part's OK-really not much of a way you could mess that up

now if you marked the distributors position before you pulled it you could just put it back the same and be good-if not then you'll have to turn to TDC first(after the chains back on)-do this with the valve cover off so you can see when both valves are closed and know for sure you're at TDC compression and not TDC exhaust(otherwise you could end up 180 out of time)

good luck

[AzurE]

yup...i think its 16 turns before they come around all lined up again. the last 5 chains i put on were Tsubaki, the top chain had 2 yellow links and one chrome link..marked on both sides of the chain

[MarkEmark]

Yep, I marked the distributor before I yanked it...at least I knew that much

The chain i got is OEM and only has the colored links on one side...

The bottom chain didn't move at all, but I think I'm gonna attach the upper timing chain, and get it to TDC (however many turns it takes), make sure that the cam sprockets look like they do in the picture, then set the distributor gear to the TDC alignment mark on it.

TDC for the no.1 is when the lobes are pointing outward...(and the valves closed, obviously). What stinks is that mine is JUST about at TDC, but not quite.

This is a stupid question, but when i turn the engine over using the crank pulley bolt, I do it clockwise (if you're facing the crank pulley), correct? And I should leave it in neutral, right?

THanksmarc

[robertwb70]

yep-clockwise and nuetral-and you got the plugs out so it'll be easy

[MarkEmark]

Alrighty--just installed the new upper timing chain. As I said...i didnt move either camshaft/the crank AT ALL since I took the chain off. So i put it on, and aligned the yellow link with the idler sprocket punch, and the dark gray links with the punchmarks on each cam sprocket. Then I cranked the engine by hand MANY TIMES until I finally got it to look like the book.

It's EXACTLY on TDC on number one right now, and all the links line up. However, compared to the book picture, it seems like the punchmarks on the cam sprockets and the idler socket are all rotated a bit clockwise.

(see pic)http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/121-2189_IMG.JPG

http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/121-2191_IMG.JPG

And this is versus the pictures in the book:

http://24.59.109.135/pichost/pic//121-2182_IMG.JPG

http://24.59.109.135/pichost/pic//121-2183_IMG.JPG

Should I disregard the fact that the three special links on the chain are rotated a bit clockwise in comparison to the book picture bc they all line up at TDC on no.1?

Am I ready to put this thing back together or what?!?

[MarkEmark]

C'mon...anyone? Robert, ya still with me? lol

[robertwb70]

looks good-the links all line up with the marks-that's what counts-if the whole thing's turned a little one way or the other doesn't matter-it's their position relative to each other that counts

and since you turned it and nothing was wrong that's a good sign

put that thing back together

and when you set the timing try 25 deg instead of the 20 they recommend-helped mine alot

[MarkEmark]

Ok, timing cover's going back on now!...I'd rather not mess with the timing, I'll leave it the same as it was before...it's boosted and I don't want to run into any problems (and I haven't had any yet).Marc

[robertwb70]

yeah-forgot about that turbo thing