I figure, in the end major NA vs major FI will cost the same

assuming you already add all of the normal bolt on parts, rough guesses:

FIbuilt engine core swap $5000engine removal and install labor $2000APS kit $7000turbo install and misc $3000cams and install $2000upgraded valves/springs $1000intake manifold (such as kinetix SSV and install) $1000 (rounding up)50-75 shot of nitrous with install and all hardware $2000tuning $1000carbon clutch $2000EMS and install $3000= $29000

around 550 whp w/pump gas625 whp w/nitrouspossibly more power if tuned with race gas

30-40 lbs added to front of car15 lbs added to rear of car

pros:turbo soundGod-like amounts of power always available at any given momentThere's more aftermarket hardware in plain view in the engine bayyou can buy this setup right now

cons:lagheatmore touchy on a road coarseadding a bit of weight to the front of the carGod-like amounts of power always available at any given moment - police tickets

for NAbuilt up, high compression engine $5000engine removal and install $2000individual throttle bodies $5000head work, aggressive cams, better valves/springs $5000high strength crankshaft and install $3000150-200 shot of nitrous with install and all hardware $2000fuel system, fuel pump, injectors, install $2000tuning $1000carbon clutch $2000EMS and install $3000= $30000

around 390 whp w/pump and/or race gas590 whp w/nitrous with race gas

15 lbs added to rear of car

pros:amazing soundlinear, predictable, and instant - almost psychic throttle responsebetter weight distributiondoesn't run as hot as a turbo

cons:slightly more expensiveLOUD - attracts attention from cops easilynot all the parts are available just yet

both cars will be beasts, but drive and sound very different. They'll probably be about the same in the 1/4 mile. Even though the NA car with 200 shot of nitrous has lower overall hp, it'll have TONS of torque because of such a huge shot of nitrous

and as always, you can push any of these cars to have more power via more nitrous or more boost, but I figure these would be the average power numbers


Modified by sentry65 at 11:10 AM 4/29/2005

Entry, generally your prices are right but..You can get 80% of your FI powergoals for a fraction of the money.

My curent set-up ( as per sig) was under 7 k installed and for 3 k add plenum headers, Ypipe or highflows and a cat back and you might look at 390 whp with a centrifugal SC ( while staying at a comfortable 7 psi)

W/O engine build up (as centrifugal is so much easier on the rods, since no huge amount of low rpm torque, which IMO is a big part of the problem with TT set-ups)

So IMO for under 10k you can get reliable FI power that approaches your stated goals for much less $$.

Fred..

I know,

I'm talking about people who want to go faster though and am not really counting bolt on parts like exhaust, cats etc because they're kinda a given I'd think

As for N/A the stroker kit built will also stay under $12,000 and give you gobs of power approaching your goal above at a fraction of the price. ( w/o the NOS)

If I were to build a showcar to showcase the best and latest and wasnt spending my money your all-out set-ups sound tempting.

I feel however we can get very close to the pwoer levels implied in your summary which a fraction of the $$?

Lets open this up for discussion, what do others here think?

Fred..

I encourage you to try one of these extreme set-ups if your budget allows and we would love to see a picture by picture installation write-up!

Fred..

PS: IMO all the Pros ( as well as the loudness CON) for your NA write-up apply to a quality centrifugal SC as well.

Fred..

the stroker kit sounds very tempting as well, but it has some potential problems

because it's a closed deck design, it doen't cool as well as other sleeves would

then also because it's stroked so much, there's going to be a lot more heat/friction in the middle of the cylinder.

You'd still need an EMS to control it, as well as a new fuel systemthe parts alone are $8000, if you want AEBS to actually do the work, that costs more, then you gotta pay to have your engine taken out and the new one put in, then there's tuning

In the end, with JUST the stroker kit and the above hardware , you're probably still looking at around $19-20k

so it'll cost about $4k more than a normal built engine since you won't need the nismo crankshaft I listed. That isn't much more money considering the extra power it makes, but...

This is just my opinion, but I don't think the stroker kit is worth it because it's so expensive, and can potentially run hotter than a normal NA engine. If you did long extended track events, you could run into problems eventually, and when you do, that's a $12000 block that's having an issue, not a $5000 one (not counting the cost of a stock core block in either case)

Also, you can't rev it as high as you could on a more normal NA set up. You can try putting in super aggressive cams on a stroker kit, but it'll do you little good if you can't rev much higher than the stock redline. With the NA parts I listed, you could potentially rev to 8000rpm's and make power up that high because of cams

the stroker kit is worth it IMO if you drag race and want more low end torque and power for reletivly short WOT runs.

Hmm, I didnt think the ehat issues would be so significant.

I really like the idea of the stroker kit...4.3L NA, Kinda like my SC'ed car feels now ...

My next level is plenum, headers, catback, and hiflows likely all at once with a good retune.

I will likely wait for a while tho, cuz I am currewntly <so> well tuned and hate to spend the same money on a tune thats only a month old..

What kinda of wheel/tire combos are you looking at to put down the Power?

Fred...

sorry, hit the back button and somehow it reposted my last post prematurely....

I'm looking at 265 front, 295 rear michelin PS2's for now

when I upgrade to some much bigger power, I'll do 275 front, 315 rear

I'll reconsider the stroker kit after it's been tested more.

Only a handful of people are building a car with it right now - and they're all FI people so far building their Z to approach 1200hp as a drag car
Modified by sentry65 at 5:27 PM 4/29/2005

sentry65 wrote:I figure, in the end major NA vs major FI will cost the same

assuming you already add all of the normal bolt on parts, rough guesses:

FIbuilt engine core swap $5000engine removal and install labor $2000APS kit $7000turbo install and misc $3000cams and install $2000upgraded valves/springs $1000intake manifold (such as kinetix SSV and install) $1000 (rounding up)50-75 shot of nitrous with install and all hardware $2000tuning $1000carbon clutch $2000EMS and install $3000= $29000

around 550 whp w/pump gas625 whp w/nitrouspossibly more power if tuned with race gas

Modified by sentry65 at 11:10 AM 4/29/2005

you are being WAY unfair to turbobuy the PE kit for the same price or less than the APS kit, and install it yourself, for tuning just ship your ecu to technosquare for a few hundred bucks.

do cams valve/springs and build the engine all at the same time way less labor.your building the car for turbo, just raise the boost instead of wasting money on nitrous.go custom on your intake manifold, and itll be around a thousand, dont bother with the kinetix or crawford.

im buying the PE kit, installing it myself and buying a motor/tranny to build up if/until i blow the one in my car.

you can install the turbo kit with even moderate skill

I'm actually getting the APS kit

I'm not going NA anymore

I wouldn't do the TS flash - I have the TS flash and it's a pain in the *** doing the whole mail order tune thing

I'd much rather have a tunable piggyback or EMS so I can really zero in on a good tune in one dyno session and save on shipping/downtime/dyno sessions

PE isn't very adjustable - you need some sorta piggyback or engine management for it and what it comes with I don't think allows for good tuning.

Some of us don't want to install something like a turbo ourselves.

What's wrong with the kinetix SSV design? it's only $725 right now. I can't imagine a custom one being dramatically better or have the experience on our engine that kinetix has had when designing the SSV

nitrous has it's own set of advantages. It might not always be healthy on your car to be driving around with 700+ hp on a daily basis. You can daily drive with 500-600hp, then use nitrous when drag racing. It also injects cold nitrous as opposed to hot air into the engine.

you won't be making HUGE power with the PE kit. Even if you raise the boost and can get over 400whp, you're going to break rods soon.

I forgot to mention a strengthened driveshaft is going to be needed if you put on slicks and drag race with over 400whp. The stock ones break above 400whp after awhile with slicks.

to make BIG power, you need a built engine.

This thread was not to say: how to gain power. it was about how to gain HUGE power - or maximum power for each scenerio without turning into a flat out race car.

I'm not biased against FI, I'm going FI and I have quite a bit of NA mods

be sure to keep us posted on your progress please!

Fred..

Has anyone heard of anyone installing or know anyone putting on the HKS/Rotorex supercharger?

The thing looks like a kit of beauty

But the FMIC is so small and its sooo conservative...

The shop that put in my ATI Says its more man hours to install

On the other hand prices been dropping and it <is> very complete and well made.

Fred..

there was some quality control in the first batch, not sure if it ended up being HKS or isntallers fault, so the hks had alot of steam at first and kind of died down.

i plan on running the ecu flash on the initial PE install, but ill switch to an FCON when i build the motor, but at max ill never try to break 550, plenty of power for what i plan to do, and its far from a drag car.

the PE kit is a lot easier to install then the other turbo kits, thats why i recommend self isntallation.