So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Post by **NUT-CSE** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:29 am

I am planning a all motor CA18DE and would like some input. The only reason im doing this is because i am almost done making a quad throttle body setup using Suzuki GSRX1000 itb's and want to build an engine to actually make use of them.

Now my main hurdle at the moment are pistons as there is nothing of the shelf for the DE and since the Honda B20 pistons work in the CA20 block and have the correct valve reliefs got me thinking if high compression B20 pistons would also work in the CA18 block and have correct valve clearance as well? Even tho the high compression pistons would come alot closer to the valves.

What compression ratio should i be looking at?

Also, what cams should i run with the itb setup?? I do have a pair of tomei 270/8.8 cams in the garage gathering dust or should i go with some thing smaller?

Any help from is much appreciated!!!!

Post by **BQ.05.TD** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:04 am

sell the cams to me

Post by **eds13** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:19 am

2 questions,

1. Why?2. what are you going to put it in?

Post by **sean@z1** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:28 am

What are you putting it in?

Post by **Buddyworm** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:30 am

I support this decision 100%. Whichever way you plan on doing it. It'd better have some unreasonable cams and rev to five digit rpms though.

How do you plan on timing and fueling it?
Modified by Buddyworm at 3:51 PM 7/7/2009

Post by **wrxratd** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:56 am

I say get bigger cams. You're gonna wanna rev this bish to the moon with those itb's. And custom forged pistons aren't that much more expensive than ots pistons, so i say get something custom forged in a 4032 alloy right around the 12.5-1 area and run some e85 through it. Boom. tearin up the streets in no time flat dawg!!

Post by **ser20det** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:17 am

wrxratd wrote:I say get bigger cams. You're gonna wanna rev this bish to the moon with those itb's. And custom forged pistons aren't that much more expensive than ots pistons, so i say get something custom forged in a 4032 alloy right around the 12.5-1 area and run some e85 through it. Boom. tearin up the streets in no time flat dawg!!

I say between 11.5 and 12.5@1 c/r . Knife edged crank, Blue printed setup, fully balanced, lightweight flywheel,aluminium driveshaft (if car is rwd), Custom headers or find old aftermarket, custom camshaft (something to make power up to 9k/10k rpm ) Valve spring, Solid lifter setup, Massive port & polish on intake and head.

And most important thing ... a nice engine management....

and you will probably get something around 200ish Horsepower.

Post by **IggyEGuana** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:07 pm

+1

do it

I <3 CA18DE

Post by **ca18detgabby** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:57 pm

cant remember off the top of my head, but someone made an old school RWD CA18DE header.

going to be something your going to have to hunt J-land for, or talk to mister part horder about his old high compression CA.....

getting the engine to suck enough air in fast enough is going to be the hardest part.......

soundsd like fun, but i think adding a plenum and a snail to your ITBs would probably best best HP output..... GL this build might not be the most HP, but def different and for that.

Post by **ca18detgabby** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:59 pm

btw there was a thread back in the day about people using B18 pistons and milling their block to match.

dont people build high compression B18s? idk not a honda expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Post by **mbmbmb23** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:05 pm

ca18detgabby wrote:cant remember off the top of my head, but someone made an old school RWD CA18DE header.

going to be something your going to have to hunt J-land for, or talk to mister part horder about his old high compression CA.....

Original poster should goto Upgarage's website and email them to see if they have anything in one of their stores. They've got to have someone who speaks decent engrish. Theres a guy on Carolinanissans that is stationed in JP near an Upgarage location whose offered to ship parts through military mail for us with very little markup (you pay for his time, which isnt much). I can put you in contact with him if you find a part you need.

*edit* Come to think of it, just buy a Hotshot/DC Sports/OBX/Pacesetter header for the KA and swap/weld a CA flange on it...and port it. I searched google, found some people saying the OBX is a direct copy of the Hotshot (which is no longer made) and performs great for the money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ories

-M

Modified by mbmbmb23 at 12:13 AM 7/8/2009

Post by **NUT-CSE** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:12 am

The engine will be going in a Nissan Exa (Pulsar NX to the US folk)

I dont plan on going baller on the setup like afew of the suggestions posted but id rather keep it a lil bit more tame for starters. If i were going to go with a solid lifter setup id rather it be on a DET motor, so i want to stay with the hydraulic lifters for the motor. With the 270' cams id be looking at pushing the engine to a 8k rpm redline.

With the pistons i have been looking at will bring the compression somewhere in the 11:1 zone. I am looking at cast pistons to start with, then i will need to discuss with my machine shop weather they need to machine the valve releifs for clearance when they pre assemble the engine. This is my only concern with the build.

I already have a Microtech LT8 for the management, 4-1 headers, Spool rods, MLS head gasket, ARP studs, adj cam gears.

Post by **float_6969** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:48 pm

They probably don't have ethanol readily available in Australia, do they? If they do, I would consider higher compression and running it on ethanol.

Post by **NUT-CSE** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:19 pm

There are only 2 places in Sydney that sell e85 and both are about 30 min drive, no big deal.

Post by **float_6969** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:21 pm

If E85 is available to you, I would seriously look into having pistons made in the 13-14:1 C/R range. I suspect that you could go even higher, but there just isn't a whole lot of info that I can find out there yet on DOHC 4CYL NA motors running E85 only. If you did go higher, plan on a water injection system as well, just in case.

Post by **NUT-CSE** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:35 pm

I am definetly considering e85 but ill probably use 98RON fuel which is the highest rated fuel we sell for the initial tune.

I have already purchased some high compression B20 pistons which have a CR of 12:1. I will then take the head and block to the machine shop and see what they can do to make it work.

Post by **BQ.05.TD** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:56 pm

you will have to watch the valve reliefs to make shore the 2 dont touch

Post by **float_6969** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:05 pm

Yea the B20 pistons may need deeper reliefs cut out for the valves if you get a lot of lift on the cams.

Post by **NUTCSE** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:27 pm

UPDATE

Ok, so i have been slowly coming along with the build and have afew update pics.

Pick up a CA18DE motor for free, was in a pretty sad state tho. Sat outside in the elements for a while and got water in the bores, tried to turn the motor over but it was seized. No big deal as it will be bored 1mm over anyways.

Head looks pretty bad aswell.

Realised that the DE motors dont have the cradle support for the mains like the DET's have but have sourced the cradle, main caps and studs from a DET for the 8500+rpm.

Standard DE pistons

Bought the YCP Honda B20 pistons, they have the same compression height and piston pin diameter as the OEM pistons. Plus they are a stronger cast piston aswell.

The Honda pistons have deeper valve releifs but the OEM have a slightly higher crown.

Picked up a set of h-beam rods aswell.

I cut the intake manifold at the flange so i can weld a 90' bend for the ITB's

I will have to cut down the straight sections a fair bit but you get the idea.

As you can see runners 1 and 2 are perfectly spaced, so i will have to separate the ITB's between runners 2 and 3.

Thought about welding the ITB's straight ontop the flange but i will have clearance issues with the firewall.

Id really like to use the GSXR injectors instead od the CA ones if possible but doesnt look likely.

Thats as far as i got upto, next is to take the bottom end to the machine shop for a bore and hone and to work out how much to deck the block and figure out what size head gasket i will require to acheive a C/R of between 11.5 and 12 - 1.

Will also be fabricating the ITB's onto the intake flange as i already have some 90' 1.75" ID aluminium tube, just need to figure out the measurements.

ENJOY

Post by **ragenasian** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:02 am

I have a RWD NA CA header I don't need if you can use it. Might be a bit expensive to ship though.

Post by **GTSRolla34** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:42 pm

Could you post or send pics of the RWD header?

[email protected]

Post by **float_6969** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:51 pm

Use the main caps that came with the motor. They're line bored with the block and are a matched set. If you swap them out, you'll have to get it line bored again with the new caps and there isn't any reason for it. You just need the girdle and the bolts.

I really think that if you want this motor to do much of anything, you're gonna want to run higher compression. 12:1 really isn't all that high. Are you planning on N20 or something?

Post by **SullivanRacing06** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:21 am

12-1 is still mild comp, watching this tho, cant see it going to far

Post by **float_6969** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:20 pm

I'm running a little over 10:1 compression plus boost and the motor is still pretty slow off boost. It spools up much faster and does have more power than it did with 8.5:1 compression, but it's still pretty weak. You can't tell unless you measure it, but from the looks of it, I don't think those Honda piston's are going to get you to 12:1. Maybe if you mill the heck out of the head and use a really thin head gasket, but that is going to mess with your quench pads and cam timing. Why wouldn't you do it right from the start and get custom forged pistons? I KNOW for a FACT that CP has my pistons on file. All they would need was a cast of the combustion chamber and they could build you a piston top to suit any compression that you want. And you could have saved the money that you spent on the H-beam rods, that you didn't need (the rods are forged from the factory), and spent it on good pistons that would have gotten you to a good compression ratio that would have made this a successful build.

And maybe I'm wrong. It's not like there have been a lot of N/A builds done on the CA. But I do know this motor pretty well and I can tell you that without more compression, you're build isn't going to net you the horsepower I would guess that you're after.

Post by **themadscientist** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:49 am

Not the engine to use for an all-motor build. Without displacement, you have to compensate with compression and RPMs. Both impart more abuse to the engine with decreasing returns as you increase either. Those short rods are going to start running away from the combustion the faster you spin it too. If you pulled more than 180hp at the wheels out of it I would be surprised. If only you had a taller deck block with a full counter crank, one wrapped up and ready to ship, sitting in my storage container wondering why you don't love it.

Post by **GTSRolla34** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:46 am

I've seen a lot of 1.6L 4AGEs make 160-180hp on 10.3:1 - 11:1 compression. If he can get a matching set of cams to take advantage of the higher compression I think he'll do pretty well.

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:02 am

So have I, but the CA18DE isn't a 4AG. Mine spun the tires at around 140-145hp with a bone stock long block.
I had a warmed up CA18DE that was starting to wipe the bearings when I pulled it. I was able to fight the average AE86 to a draw with an S13 much to their chagrin and ZC civics could just barely edge me out but I beat the living hell out of that engine to do it and it would not have lasted much longer. From a dead dig it was a real dog even with my Silvia gutted to the steel but with the Toda flywheel and staying in the 17-18 rpm sweet spot where it made any kind of power she would hum but it was like dancing on a razor blade.
My 20 valve 4A was a holy nugget of mayhem that kept the taillights of any NA fourbanger short of a B18 from shining on my 101. The CA is not a great choice for NA duty. Can it do it? yes. Is it good at it? not so much. Those short rods leaning on the cylinder walls of that short deck block are all wrong for high-revving NA and it creates all the torque of a wound up jack in the box.

Put it in the absolute lightest car you can and pray.

Post by **float_6969** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:09 am

I wondered when you were gonna pop in here! I have a feeling that previous post might have been directed at me though, LOL. Just bring it with you the next time you come back to the US. I'm sure customs and the air port security staff will pass that thing right through. LMAO! Shipping isn't getting any cheaper I suppose. I need to just cough up the dough and get it out of your hair, huh?

Post by **NUTCSE** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:12 am

If money wasnt an option i would go out and get 16:1 CR custom pistons, titanium rods, solid lifter head, 300'/14mm cams, billet counter weight crank, race fuel......... All my efforts are going to my DET motor build, this is just a little side project as I had a spare engine and i thought id give it a go, not out to break records or anything. The build specs are 12:1 CR, GSXR ITB's, 270'/8.9 grind cams and some head porting. I have spent abit of time on the honda forums looking at their dynos and engine specs and most of them are running between 11:5 and 12.5 CR making around 200whp, seen afew non vtec b18's make over 200whp.

Post by **float_6969** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:53 pm

I understand all that. It just seems to me that the money you spend on the rods could have been put towards higher CR pistons. The stock rods would have been fine. Regardless, this should still be fun to kick around in and I'll still be excited to see it completed.

So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: (eds13)

Re: (sean@z1)

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE......... (NUT-CSE)

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE......... (wrxratd)

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE......... (ser20det)

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE......... (IggyEGuana)

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE......... (ca18detgabby)

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE......... (ca18detgabby)

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Re: So i wanna build a All Motor CA18DE.........

Nissan Forums

Infiniti Forums

Datsun Forums

Technical Forums

Classifieds / Marketplace

Nissan Motorsports

General Forums